Bike Forums

Bike Forums (https://www.bikeforums.net/forum.php)
-   Classic & Vintage (https://www.bikeforums.net/forumdisplay.php?f=181)
-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

agmetal 04-29-16 11:34 AM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 18728132)
Yes! Make sure the leather is supple- if its hard, all that will happen is it will crack around the rivets of the nose cantle when you try to tighten the adjuster nut.

"Yes" to which part, exactly? The leather is pretty supple, no visible cracking around the rivets. The bag loops do have some overlap with the cantle plate, though.

Salubrious 04-29-16 12:33 PM

Yes- as in 'yes, an application of proofhide is in order." When in doubt- treat.

agmetal 04-29-16 12:43 PM

Cool. I know at least one friend has some that he's offered to let me use before. What about tensioning it, though? I'd like to get it pretty firm - sounds like I may need to try to re-shape it and then slowly bring up the tension once it's gotten back into shape? Those flaring skirts are pretty annoying, that was basically the only thing I didn't enjoy about my ride home on it last night.

Loose Chain 04-29-16 12:46 PM


Originally Posted by 3speedslow (Post 18727897)
This is what I don't understand. Raleigh made a perfect kickstand for their bikes, how come they were'nt used?

Because they crush the frames. I have yet to see a raleigh or three speed with a frame that does not have at least some damage down there. I have passed over a lot of bikes due to that kind of damage. I am learning through not to be so picky.

I pulled the Raleigh kickstand frame crusher off my bike and put it in storage. I see nothing that would keep it from squashing the frame. The only reason the frame is not squashed is that the bike was never really ridden much or kid owned. The only thing kickstands are good for other that crushing frames is allowing bikes to fall over and damage and destroy other nice bits. If I cannot lean my bikes safely or park them in a proper rack then I lay them (on grass).


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 18726741)
I've never used the Shimano cogs. Always the Sturmey Archer 22T coaster brake cogs. I assume they're the same. You need to pry off the circlip in front of the cog with a small screwdriver, The cog will lift right off. I like to use a brand new chain when I do this operation. It's also handy to have a half link on hand. Sometimes you need one to get the axle position where you want it in the dropout. I've had it happen that the chain would be a tad too long, but removing a whole link would leave the axle out at the end of the dropout. If you're lucky, you won't need one

The Shimano 22T cogs I bought were linked in this thread somewhere a few pages back. What is a good quality and proper chain? I would suppose the Walmart chain is not acceptable?

My bike (and chain) have very little wear, none actually, too bad I cannot find a way to add a few links to allow for the larger rear cogs. Are you guys sure these bikes need 22T rear cogs?

J

Salubrious 04-29-16 01:18 PM


Originally Posted by agmetal (Post 18728332)
Cool. I know at least one friend has some that he's offered to let me use before. What about tensioning it, though? I'd like to get it pretty firm - sounds like I may need to try to re-shape it and then slowly bring up the tension once it's gotten back into shape? Those flaring skirts are pretty annoying, that was basically the only thing I didn't enjoy about my ride home on it last night.

If the side flaps are coming up you need to use a water treatment as suggested above to get them back in line. You can't correct that with proofhide! I treated a saddle like that with warm water and tied a lace around the nose to hold the flaps down and let it dry in the sun. That sorted it- but at that point it should not be ridden until dowsed with proofhide and some mink oil or the like.

clubman 04-29-16 02:05 PM


Originally Posted by 3speedslow (Post 18727897)
This is what I don't understand. Raleigh made a perfect kickstand for their bikes, how come they were'nt used?

I've got a few of these and when properly installed (not over-torqued), they do little-to-no damage except for paint scrapes. Even that can be avoided with some judicious use of inner tube gaskets. My 58 Raleigh Superbe that came with what I'm sure is the original kickstand. I'll take it apart soon and see exactly how it's fared over 6 decades but I did examine it closely and I assure you the stays are not crushed, at all. I don't like kickstands as a rule but the Raleigh models were well designed. I like them.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-M...58-superb3.jpg
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-t...nadianclub.jpg

BigChief 04-29-16 02:38 PM


Originally Posted by Loose Chain (Post 18728343)
Because they crush the frames. I have yet to see a raleigh or three speed with a frame that does not have at least some damage down there. I have passed over a lot of bikes due to that kind of damage. I am learning through not to be so picky.

I pulled the Raleigh kickstand frame crusher off my bike and put it in storage. I see nothing that would keep it from squashing the frame. The only reason the frame is not squashed is that the bike was never really ridden much or kid owned. The only thing kickstands are good for other that crushing frames is allowing bikes to fall over and damage and destroy other nice bits. If I cannot lean my bikes safely or park them in a proper rack then I lay them (on grass).



The Shimano 22T cogs I bought were linked in this thread somewhere a few pages back. What is a good quality and proper chain? I would suppose the Walmart chain is not acceptable?

My bike (and chain) have very little wear, none actually, too bad I cannot find a way to add a few links to allow for the larger rear cogs. Are you guys sure these bikes need 22T rear cogs?

J

Gearing is purely a matter of personal taste. It is a popular modification, but you may be happy with the stock gearing.
edit
If you find yourself never using 3rd gear because you feel it's too tall and your bike becomes essentially a 2 speed, then it would be good to revisit the 22T cog mod.

Loose Chain 04-29-16 02:48 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 18728622)
Gearing is purely a matter of personal taste. It is a popular modification, but you may be happy with the stock gearing.
edit
If you find yourself never using 3rd gear because you feel it's too tall and your bike is essentially a 2 speed, then it would be good to revisit the 22T cog mod.

I did not say I do not want to switch to the 22T. I am trying to understand what it takes to do so and the positives and negatives of doing so.

J

BigChief 04-29-16 04:17 PM


Originally Posted by Loose Chain (Post 18728643)
I did not say I do not want to switch to the 22T. I am trying to understand what it takes to do so and the positives and negatives of doing so.

J

What you'll need is a 1/8" chain. I've been using KMC. They come with 112 links which is longer than you'll need and a master link.
You'll also need a chain breaker and a 1/8" half link that may or may not be necessary. They're cheap and it stinks to be held up for need of one. If you plan on lots of bike work, I think it's nice to buy a shop grade Park Tool chainbreaker, but they also sell cheaper ones for more occasional use.
Then, you mount the wheel with the new cog on the bike so the axle is midway in the dropout. Wrap the new chain around the cog and chainwheel (with the master link in place so you take it into account) and see where you need to remove the extra links. Only use the chain breaker to separate the link at the small end. Only the small end fits into the master link. That's it unless you need to add the half link for a perfect fit.

PatrickZ 04-29-16 04:55 PM

[QUOTE=Loose Chain;18728343]Because they crush the frames. I have yet to see a raleigh or three speed with a frame that does not have at least some damage down there. I have passed over a lot of bikes due to that kind of damage. I am learning through not to be so picky.

I think you may have only encountered 3 speeds with ordinary kickstands. Here is a photo (borrowed from the internet) of a true Raleigh kickstand. My son's 1959 Colt has a similar Raleigh-made stand. This design prevents the stand from twisting without crushing the stays.

http://jollyrogersmotors.com/resize/...0&bh=600&h=600

michaelz28 04-29-16 05:50 PM

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/h...psf7a36e88.jpg

Loose Chain 04-29-16 06:03 PM

[QUOTE=PatrickZ;18728961]

Originally Posted by Loose Chain (Post 18728343)
Because they crush the frames. I have yet to see a raleigh or three speed with a frame that does not have at least some damage down there. I have passed over a lot of bikes due to that kind of damage. I am learning through not to be so picky.

I think you may have only encountered 3 speeds with ordinary kickstands. Here is a photo (borrowed from the internet) of a true Raleigh kickstand. My son's 1959 Colt has a similar Raleigh-made stand. This design prevents the stand from twisting without crushing the stays.

http://jollyrogersmotors.com/resize/...0&bh=600&h=600

Yep, that looks like what I took off. No thanks. Interesting design. I do not need my bike crashing over. I long ago, oh, at about 10yo, discovered that bikes do not really need kickstands and that another thing they were good for was knocking chunks of flesh out of my shin as well as ruining my bicycle both from crushing it and it falling over.

I have a two bike rack in the corner of my living room that I pop the two bikes I keep ready for immediate access into. Others are hung in my basement on two gravity type racks but none rest on a kickstand, too unstable. I guess I am militant anti-kickstand. They may be retro cool and period correct and in this case I prefer to be uncool and non correct.

agmetal 04-29-16 06:09 PM


Originally Posted by michaelz28 (Post 18729071)

Nice, but I'm not clear on what you're trying to show...

clubman 04-29-16 06:10 PM

It's a brown one, not a black one :thumb:

3speedslow 04-29-16 06:28 PM

[QUOTE=Loose Chain;18729094]

Originally Posted by PatrickZ (Post 18728961)

Yep, that looks like what I took off. No thanks. Interesting design. I do not need my bike crashing over. I long ago, oh, at about 10yo, discovered that bikes do not really need kickstands and that another thing they were good for was knocking chunks of flesh out of my shin as well as ruining my bicycle both from crushing it and it falling over.

I have a two bike rack in the corner of my living room that I pop the two bikes I keep ready for immediate access into. Others are hung in my basement on two gravity type racks but none rest on a kickstand, too unstable. I guess I am militant anti-kickstand. They may be retro cool and period correct and in this case I prefer to be uncool and non correct.

Fair enough, kick stands aren't for you.

So if you have any of those Raleigh ones cluttering up your shop, you can send them my way.:rolleyes:

michaelz28 04-29-16 06:39 PM

mines not bad ..http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/h...ps4qdbl7ol.jpg

michaelz28 04-29-16 06:41 PM


Originally Posted by agmetal (Post 18729105)
Nice, but I'm not clear on what you're trying to show...

its a seat , what were you trying to show ?

arex 04-29-16 06:49 PM

Got to see a very old Norman 3-speed at the LBS where I was scamming some parts. They had it in the workshop to clean up to sell in their used-bike room. No idea of the age, but I'm guessing early '50s. Crusty, but complete. Unfortunately, I didn't have my phone with me to take pics. They were asking $150 for it.

agmetal 04-29-16 07:11 PM


Originally Posted by michaelz28 (Post 18729189)
its a seat , what were you trying to show ?

It's a continuation of the post right before it, that's the saddle that came on the 1937 Raleigh roadster I picked up yesterday. This forum only allows 10 pics per post, and I had 12 to share.

Loose Chain 04-29-16 08:20 PM


Originally Posted by michaelz28 (Post 18729186)

The tubes appear crushed.

Do you guys really prefer the B72 to the B17? The B72 kind of looks like a ladies saddle in shape and width, why is it preferred? Decisions, decisions. Kind of expensive too.

Narhay 04-30-16 08:41 AM

Ive got a Raleigh 26tpi threaded fork and I have the crown race and the two threaded pieces. I'm on the lookout for the rest of the headset. Has anyone successfully used the two press in modern frame cups with a good fit or is Raleigh the only way to go?

BigChief 04-30-16 08:49 AM

Started on the 64 Sports today. Figured I'd start with the bent drive side crank. It was bent where they always are. A curve from about the middle to a tighter bend about 3/4s of the way up. I did this with the crank on the bike with my special crank bending tool #866B ...an old 1 1/2" pipe with some cardboard stuffed in the end. The trick here is to use lots of smaller tugs on the pipe instead of fewer big tugs. I started bending at the middle and worked my way up using a non drive side crank arm as a guide. They look parallel now, but I'll check it again after I have the new chain guard installed to make sure I have about 3/16" clearance. Drop forged or not. These are easier to bend than they ought to be. I've run into this condition many times. Now, I'll disassemble the whole bike and use the string test to check the stays.
http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/f...sports003a.jpg
http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/f...h/crank001.jpg
http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/f...h/crank002.jpg

nlerner 04-30-16 09:19 AM

Nice work, BigChief! I've also seen many bent crank arms on various Raleigh Sports that have come my way. I figure they fall over a lot from loose kickstands or just general abuse, and that's enough to bend the crank arm. I've also seen quite a few bent pedal spindles probably from the same cause.

clubman 04-30-16 09:44 AM


Originally Posted by Loose Chain (Post 18729365)
The tubes appear crushed.

Do you guys really prefer the B72 to the B17? The B72 kind of looks like a ladies saddle in shape and width, why is it preferred? Decisions, decisions. Kind of expensive too.

That's not a Raleigh stand FWIW. Notice the previous pics of the Raleigh stands are contoured distributing the pressure to make a snug fit, which in turn allows a proper install that won't crush stays. Enough of that, no one has to like or dislike them. It's just important to not state emphatically that all stands are made equal.

The choice for a Sports is usually between the B66 and the B72. A B17 is unsprung and more appropriate for a drop bar bike. The slack angles of the Sports/Roadsters don't really suit the design of B17. Personally, I like a B72, the B66 springs are sometimes a little squeaky. As always, seats are very personal. As far as costs go, buy right, buy once.
There are some high quality mattress saddles made by Brooks and they can also be incredibly comfortable. Again, there are different models and generations and they vary in size, quality, fit and cost.

Loose Chain 04-30-16 09:59 AM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 18730162)
That's not a Raleigh stand FWIW. Notice the previous pics of the Raleigh stands are contoured distributing the pressure to make a snug fit, which in turn allows a proper install that won't crush stays. Enough of that, no one has to like or dislike them. It's just important to not state emphatically that all stands are made equal.

The choice for a Sports is usually between the B66 and the B72. A B17 is unsprung and more appropriate for a drop bar bike. The slack angles of the Sports/Roadsters don't really suit the design of B17. Personally, I like a B72, the B66 springs are sometimes a little squeaky. As always, seats are very personal. As far as costs go, buy right, buy once.
There are some high quality mattress saddles made by Brooks and they can also be incredibly comfortable. Again, there are different models and generations and they vary in size, quality, fit and cost.

I just need to ride a B72 and see how it does. It looks like the large seat would interfere with leg movement. And I do have my 3 speed set up a bit more aggressive than what seems typical here. I have my bars below saddle height which is why I was wondering about a B17. It just seams the B72 is awfully wide. I use a B17N on my Surly CC.

Where these bikes more typically fitted with a brown or a black saddle?

I was reading that the only difference between the 21 inch and 23 inch frames is that the height of the top bar is changed. The length of the frame otherwise remains the same?


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:33 PM.


Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.