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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

gster 06-04-16 05:27 PM


Originally Posted by Narsinha (Post 18820647)
Thanks!
ok i guess i will order this tool and some spare parts, meanwhile also have another older Raleigh, and you never know ;)
Hope i get the parts, will need a new or good used axle, balls for the bearings and cotters.

Thanks a lot, i did not expect such surprises when i bought it..:o


Have a nice weekend (or do you say have a good we?)
Kai

You should post some good photos of the BB parts and someone here can assess the damage. As Big Chief points out, these parts aren't as easy to find anymore. New bearings are inexpensive and easy to get but finding the correct spindle could be a challenge.

Loose Chain 06-04-16 05:28 PM

Front hubs that have the oil port with the sliding or snap over cover, are those supposed to actually be oiled instead of greased or exactly what? I have a 36 holes oil port Raleigh front hub (my 73 has 36 spokes f/r).

gster 06-04-16 05:43 PM

1 Attachment(s)
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=525380

3speedslow 06-04-16 05:55 PM


Originally Posted by Loose Chain (Post 18821188)
Front hubs that have the oil port with the sliding or snap over cover, are those supposed to actually be oiled instead of greased or exactly what? I have a 36 holes oil port Raleigh front hub (my 73 has 36 spokes f/r).

You can grease them and let them be. You can also do just the oil but you must do it quite frequently. I grease but occasionally drip some oil in there as well.

gster 06-04-16 06:19 PM

I'm taking the liberty of re-posting something that Sixty Fiver wrote a few years ago regarding grease/oil etc:

"I have two vintage Raleighs and a Rudge that are full oilers and they get a little shot of oil every 100 miles or once a week and the excess oil that runs out (it's clear) gets used to wipe down the frame and cables which protects them from rust really well.

When I am riding them consistently it's a weekly ritual that takes a few minutes and if they have sat (as they do in the winter) they also get a sip of 10w30 semi synthetic.

My 1955 Lenton could be the smoothest rolling bicycle I have ever ridden and on longer rides I carry a small bottle of oil for topping things up... in tearing down the bike I found the bearings, cups, and races to be in pristine condition and when they go... I have spares.

The Raleighs and Rudge were built at the peak of Raleigh's production so the quality of everything was / is first rate and I have used grade 25 bearings in servicing the bikes.

I also oil the bb on several other bikes by filling them from the seat post... if it's open I can squirt in a little oil and if it's a closed post I remove the seat post to "top them up".

In winter when grease turns to honey, using the synthetic oil in the bb really makes the bike run as smoothly as would would on a hot summer day... it is nice to have a bike that ruins as smoothly at -43 as it does at plus 30.

An oiled bb is noticeably smoother than a greased bb and if it's a quality bb they are also much smoother than a cartridge and will last far longer.

People are astounded that my winter bikes continue to look and run as well as they do and do not have any rust... but they get wiped down once a week or more depending on the weather."







PalmettoUpstate 06-04-16 08:48 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 18802559)
My local bike shop has a 1950s Rudge with chaincase, fork lock, Dynamo in the rear hub. The paint is a gorgeous maroon. The asking price is low, but the shop owner doesn't know how to market it. I'm afraid to mention the price here. I don't need this bike, so I'd like to see it land in the right hands. Any interest?

Tom is the bike still "out there?"

My "governor" and I went to Haddon Heights last November to retrieve a Lenton that I had procured via "the List" [and your great instructions on how to use it with alerts - LOL.]

Hate those sucky toll roads but the trip was great and the seller a fine and honorable chap. Did a "twofer" and retrieved another nice piece in the Richmond area...

Anyway, that being said, I would like a shot at the bike if it is still available. Thanks!

noglider 06-04-16 08:55 PM

@PalmettoUpstate, I'm thinking of buying it. Email me for pictures.

Loose Chain 06-04-16 09:12 PM

Speaking of putting oil down the seat tube. I have pulled the BBs apart now on several of these bikes and found plenty of dirt and dead creatures down in there. Not sure I would want to add oil in there to wash all that dirt into the bearings. So, if one were to oil the BB then I would think sticking a cork in the seat post might be a good idea to keep it reasonably clean down there and keep water out (since there is no drainage). Most non Raleigh bikes that I own or have owned had a cut out of various shapes/sizes in the BB to allow for drainage and the bearings are protected by a plastic cup/shield.

So we are saying the front hubs with the "oil port" cover are indeed meant to be oiled?

J

Narsinha 06-05-16 04:42 AM

I usually grease the bearings with italian Galli grease, that does not change its state (at least not between -20 and + 40 degrees Celsius). The rear hub has of course to be oiled, but i apply grease on the ball bearings whenever it is opened.

Thanks and greetings,
Kai


edit: from the answers here i think they could also be oiled, but you have to do this regularly and often – much more often than if you use grease. The universal joints on cars that have nipples are always greased, it would not withstand the forces using thinner lubricants.

I am not entirely sure oil is the be thing touse, after all the film is much thinner when it comes to pressure. I know the Tour de France riders some time ago used oil for having less friction in the bearings, but you have to see that those bearings would be used for one day, and then exchanged (thrown away).

Gasbag 06-05-16 05:32 AM

My Raleighs and Rudge take advantage of modern grease and kevlar belted tires. Conversely, both of my CWS of which are the very tall and upright older style roadsters, use traditional non-belted tires and oil in the bearing ports. Different destinations and different journeys. Is one better than the other? That depends on the mood of the day.

BigChief 06-05-16 05:34 AM

I'm not so sure oil would migrate to the bottom bracket bearings unless you poured a lot of oil down the seat tube. Enough to fill the bracket at least half way. I'm pretty sure your BB was taken apart by someone at some point because by the 70s, Raleigh changed to using a plastic cage that held 7 bearings. Personally, I think 11 loose bearings is preferable.

Gasbag 06-05-16 08:36 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 18821812)
I'm not so sure oil would migrate to the bottom bracket bearings unless you poured a lot of oil down the seat tube. Enough to fill the bracket at least half way. I'm pretty sure your BB was taken apart by someone at some point because by the 70s, Raleigh changed to using a plastic cage that held 7 bearings. Personally, I think 11 loose bearings is preferable.


The bottom bracket oil level only needs to be as high as the center to top of the lowest ball. Within one or two revolutions the cup race will have a good film and that is all that is needed. There is no heat to remove to speak of, so there is no need for a higher volume of oil. Some oil will eventually escape out of the spindle gap (which will be visible), but a few drops will bring it back up to level.

Narsinha 06-05-16 08:37 AM

Thanks again,
can someone please tell me which thread the rear (thicker?) axle of the Raleigh DL-1 has, seems the outer nut has gone but now this was indeed my fault. :rolleyes:
It is the one opposite the sprocket and gear switching side, here it was a domed nut with the "R".
I need a new domed nut for this, the forward axle has obviously less diameter..

In some of the explosion drawings this axle nut has the number "K 520" or "HMN 128", but it does not look like a domed one. I can use a normal one, but i still need the dimensions. Is the rear thread 3/8" BSC with 26 tpi ? There are rear axle nuts for Raleighs, but there are export version, versions for hubs without 3-speed (which i have) and what not..

gster 06-05-16 08:50 AM


Originally Posted by Narsinha (Post 18822059)
Thanks again,
can someone please tell me which thread the rear (thicker?) axle of the Raleigh DL-1 has, seems the outer nut has gone but now this was indeed my fault. :rolleyes:
It is the one opposite the sprocket and gear switching side, here it was a domed nut with the "R".
I need a new domed nut for this, the forward axle has obviously less diameter..

In some of the explosion drawings this axle nut has the number "K 520" or "HMN 128", but it does not look like a domed one. I can use a normal one, but i still need the dimensions. Is the rear thread 3/8" BSC with 26 tpi ? There are rear axle nuts for Raleighs, but there are export version, versions for hubs without 3-speed (which i have) and what not..

Too bad you lost the "R" nut as they're worth a bit of money these days.

Loose Chain 06-05-16 08:58 AM

I think the oiled bearings obviously work well as that is the primary lubrication method for the rear hub. But, I think I will consider the front oil port as a quaint concept, perhaps used to extend the service interval or for insurance on bicycles that were designed to be used and used in rough environments where service (intervals) might be forgotten or rarely done. Just drip some 30W in there and the squeaking would stop. As to oiling the BB the rear stays are drilled, oil would would likely escape there as well as from the crank axle.

Loose Chain 06-05-16 09:02 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 18822076)
Too bad you lost the "R" nut as they're worth a bit of money these days.

I was unaware that the rear axle retention nut was closed with a red R. Every bike I have seen must have lost their nuts ;) .

Delboy Avenger 06-05-16 09:07 AM

2 Attachment(s)
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=525457http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=525456

A better pic of Cartwright headbadge

gster 06-05-16 09:17 AM


Originally Posted by Loose Chain (Post 18822097)
I was unaware that the rear axle retention nut was closed with a red R. Every bike I have seen must have lost their nuts ;) .

You're right. I mis read the post.

gster 06-05-16 09:18 AM

1974 Raleigh Superbe (Canadian built)
A neighbour brought this bike over the other day for me to have a look at. She'd bought it on an impulse last year and now realizes that it's too tall and heavy for her to ride and carry up to her apartment....A responsible seller should have told her this.Someone was interested in buying it and I just gave it a quick cleaning and topped up the oil/air etc.
https://threespeedmania.files.wordpr...0469.jpg?w=680
An examination revealed it to be a 1974 Canadian built model and as far as I could tell was completely original with a few exceptions.https://threespeedmania.files.wordpr...0474.jpg?w=680
The coveted "R" nuts were there.
https://threespeedmania.files.wordpr...0475.jpg?w=680
The Dynohub spun freely but did not seem to work
.https://threespeedmania.files.wordpr...0477.jpg?w=680https://threespeedmania.files.wordpr...0478.jpg?w=680
The old style bell was very nice.The bike had new tires and pads and rode very well.There is a lesson here for people that want to buy a vintage bicycle. There's a greater amount of owner responsibility in the ongoing maintenance and upkeep of these things than with some modern bikes. It's now somehow cool to ride one of these around but you need to be prepared to do your homework.

Gasbag 06-05-16 09:28 AM


Originally Posted by Delboy Avenger (Post 18822108)


The pachyderm is clearly visible, definitely an "All Strength" bicycle. Looks like a challenging but worthy project.

BigChief 06-05-16 09:28 AM


Originally Posted by Loose Chain (Post 18822087)
I think the oiled bearings obviously work well as that is the primary lubrication method for the rear hub. But, I think I will consider the front oil port as a quaint concept, perhaps used to extend the service interval or for insurance on bicycles that were designed to be used and used in rough environments where service (intervals) might be forgotten or rarely done. Just drip some 30W in there and the squeaking would stop. As to oiling the BB the rear stays are drilled, oil would would likely escape there as well as from the crank axle.

That's right. Didn't think of that. In order for the oil to reach the BB bearings, the oil must also fill the chainstays which have vent holes.
Seems that it might be best to just disassemble the BB and grease it every couple of years.

Gasbag 06-05-16 09:36 AM


Originally Posted by Loose Chain (Post 18822087)
I think the oiled bearings obviously work well as that is the primary lubrication method for the rear hub. But, I think I will consider the front oil port as a quaint concept, perhaps used to extend the service interval or for insurance on bicycles that were designed to be used and used in rough environments where service (intervals) might be forgotten or rarely done. Just drip some 30W in there and the squeaking would stop. As to oiling the BB the rear stays are drilled, oil would would likely escape there as well as from the crank axle.

The chain stays are open going into the bottom bracket so drilling vents for the brazing process would have been unnecessary and isn't present on any of my English bikes. The only tubes on fully lugged bikes that would need a welding vent should be the seat stays.

Gasbag 06-05-16 10:01 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 18822141)
That's right. Didn't think of that. In order for the oil to reach the BB bearings, the oil must also fill the chainstays which have vent holes.
Seems that it might be best to just disassemble the BB and grease it every couple of years.

The chain stays slope downward to the bottom bracket so oil pooling in them would be minimal.

If we step into the way back machine, we find the grease used back in the day to be heavy, thick concoctions. In bicycle bearings, that would introduce a lot of drag. Lubrication has made some huge steps forward in the intervening years. For instance, even through the mid 1960s we find oil cups used in automotive generators and ignition distributers. It wasn't until after silicone impregnated bronze bearings were introduced that we got away from that maintenance chore. My 1963 Rudge has an oil cup on the BB but my 1968 DL-1 no longer sports one. Fortunately, we can use the light modern formulas of grease and dispense with the oiling chores, or as I do in my oldest bikes, continue with it as a nostalgia chore.

PalmettoUpstate 06-05-16 11:36 AM

Picking this one up today [but well below the asking price]

Anyone know if this is a Panasonic-built machine?

BICYCLE ROYCE UNION

Loose Chain 06-05-16 11:51 AM


Originally Posted by Gasbag (Post 18822158)
The chain stays are open going into the bottom bracket so drilling vents for the brazing process would have been unnecessary and isn't present on any of my English bikes. The only tubes on fully lugged bikes that would need a welding vent should be the seat stays.


You are right, I guess I missed the fact the stays are not drilled for drainage on E3Ss as are many bikes which also have open stays into the BB.


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