Bike Forums

Bike Forums (https://www.bikeforums.net/forum.php)
-   Classic & Vintage (https://www.bikeforums.net/forumdisplay.php?f=181)
-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

clubman 11-06-17 09:20 AM

@SirMike1983

Since there's supposedly no stoopid questions, have you tried reversing the cotters? I usually install them so a crankarm on the downstroke will reveal the end of the pin, not the nutted end.

What a beauty.

noglider 11-06-17 09:45 AM

That shade of blue is pretty rare. In earlier years, it was on the women's model, exclusively, I believe. I love it, and I think it's why I fell in love with Rudge bikes when I was young.

SquidPuppet 11-06-17 11:38 AM


Originally Posted by arty dave (Post 19974257)
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4520/...75e0c7e2_c.jpg


Version B will have decals, mudguards, chainguard, headlight, and rebuilt pedals. Possibly a rack. The .

I dig it just like it is. :thumb:

arty dave 11-06-17 04:31 PM

Thanks Squidpuppet, there is certainly something cool about it as is.
And that's why I need another DL-1.

Sir Mike - that's the same year as mine, looks to be in good condition!

Browngw - I remember you had hub issues with yours, did you get them sorted?

nlerner 11-06-17 06:25 PM

My stable is full, but here's a sweet, tall Humber in the Boston area:

https://boston.craigslist.org/bmw/bi...376340271.html

https://images.craigslist.org/00e0e_...Yp_600x450.jpg

johnnyspaghetti 11-06-17 11:06 PM

3 Attachment(s)
Attachment 587804

Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 19974070)
No luck with a different crank arm - still off. Looks like the spindle to me - one flat is visibly off from where it should be. I may try a spindle from an Indian DL-1 copy. The #8GC is just something that does not come up for sale much in the US. I've been checking eBay for several weeks and not seen a single one.

There's actually a good Youtube video on this subject - that the DL-1 spindle is not the same as the Sports and that before the early 1970s DL-1s use longer cranks as well. But the Indian companies tended to copy the DL-1 rather than the Sports, so hopefully I can get an Indian spindle and run it with new bearing balls and the stock Raleigh cups (in decent shape still).

There are a couple of sub-par elements on this bike. The spindle is one, and the rear fender decal is visibly way off to the left. The frame itself is OK, but you can see where the joints were not quite as crisp as on my 1958 Sports (this one is a 1963 model, so it should not be all that different). I wonder if the export models got a little less quality control and slower updates than US and UK spec ones. I know they used those round, narrow bars longer on the export models as well. But that's just speculation.

I dealt with this issue and these(SirMike1983's)crank arms lined up about the same amount maybe a degree or two more off 180 is what I was dealing with .

This was a big headache. Never experienced cotter difficulties before. I bought all the cotters in the hole in the wall bike shops in my immediate area,pin choices were slim. Out of about dozen pins bought only 3 were the same. Tried every combo mock up frontwards/backwards.

I ended up taking a grinder to the flat on the pin flat until the arm indexed to a 180 position. Although arms are straight now I don't find it acceptable to have this not pretty grind job on the pin & they don't look correct with the blank head sunk in the arm bore so deep.
I feel the pin will loosen up eventually anyhow.
I no longer have adequate measuring tools to check for pin bore location in reference to the spindle bore which I never even considered until BigChief chimed in about his experiences-thankyouverymuch-

If you think about it I may have made the straight arm crooked or vise versa to get them to 180. You just don't know if you can't properly locate the bore positions and see whats off kilter.
How can a person ride this bike thats 55 yrs old with a limping crank stroke?

This headache will resurface for me. I'll be better prepared. I am enjoying the ride now but think that the pedal was intentionally bent to try to correct the problem. These pedals seemingly in fine shape revealed wear problems- an off center inner race groove crooked.
This pedal spins beautifully and is now crooked. What a shame for this wonderful pedal assembly.Attachment 587804Attachment 587803Attachment

johnnyspaghetti 11-06-17 11:47 PM

I know my camera work is lesser than fair, I now look & see the threaded pedal bore in the arm seems to have much more material on one side of the diameter & awkwardly beveled in the finish grinding process. I did bend this pedal shaft back some & is better but not quite far enough yet but its real close now.
I may have about 30 miles on it since and I monitor for play in the bearing adjustment. if any amount of slop occurs I will inspect to see how the wear groove on the races is tracking. The outside bearing had no issues as of yet.
Only after indexing the crank arm back to a 180 position only then did I notice a problem with the pedal. I will be throwing crank arm sets & BB's at this if there seems to be a need, and keep close track of what parts belong where.
So the cotters may not even be the problem but is now since grinding on one of them.
I want to make this 1962 Sports my primary ride.

SquidPuppet 11-07-17 12:09 AM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 19976578)
My stable is full, but here's a sweet, tall Humber in the Boston area:

https://boston.craigslist.org/bmw/bi...376340271.html


I've never seen a fork like that. Very neat.



https://images.craigslist.org/00y0y_...T_1200x900.jpg

boattail71 11-07-17 11:02 AM

3 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19974073)
Us 3 speeders are an enthusiastic group, but we are a tiny niche in a small C&V bicycle market. On top of that, these are common bikes. To me, that's part of their appeal. They were part of everyday life and had more historical impact then the exotic machines. I don't see how these bikes could ever get really pricey. There are too many of them. The buyers tend to be more inclined to riding and wrenching than collecting and unlike something like a 56 Chevy Belair, most people would never even notice one on the road. I see people trying to get big prices for them from time to time, but I doubt they will ever be able to get that ball rolling. They're too big to hang on the wall. You have to be a rider to appreciate them.

Agree, Big C. I can't seem to pass up cheap untouched examples at swap meets. I bought two of these as basket cases and after this overhaul it rides like an English roadster should. Sweet! Put a basket on the front and it makes a nice campus commuter for cute discerning co-eds who want something befitting.

This is branded "AMF." I think AMF bought up sporting goods brands in the 60's and 70's and even saved Harley Davidson, didn't they? Anyone know more about the AMF/Hercules collaboration? SA hub says November '63.

Salubrious 11-07-17 11:44 AM


Originally Posted by SquidPuppet (Post 19977158)
I've never seen a fork like that. Very neat.



https://images.craigslist.org/00y0y_...T_1200x900.jpg

That is the Humber Duplex fork, which was designed by Beeston-Humber (absorbed by Raleigh IIRC in 1934) for their trikes about 1880 or so. It was kept in production for about 80 years.

ascherer 11-07-17 02:28 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 19977991)
That is the Humber Duplex fork, which was designed by Beeston-Humber (absorbed by Raleigh IIRC in 1934) for their trikes about 1880 or so. It was kept in production for about 80 years.

The bike is sweet. I'm guessing that's a rebuilt front wheel? Looks too small.

nlerner 11-07-17 04:03 PM


Originally Posted by ascherer (Post 19978369)
The bike is sweet. I'm guessing that's a rebuilt front wheel? Looks too small.

Iíd guess itís the original wheel, but the front tire is much lower profile than the original. You can see it doesnít match the rear tire.

arty dave 11-07-17 04:11 PM

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4584/...6613ec61_h.jpgIMG20171107183657 by arty dave armour, on Flickr

My friend welded the new piece of threaded rod for the front drum yesterday, and I'd found a knurled thumb nut that looks similar to the original back adjuster nut. I took it out for a 5km ride, and while the bike is a real pleasure to ride, the front drums stopping power is underwhelming. I'd adjusted the lever pull and the actuator arm (?) so the pads contact the drum quite soon in the lever pull, and I'd compared the thickness of the pads with images online - there isn't much wear. I have a bike set up with modern 70mm SA drums and they stop really well. I may need to research cleaning the pads. When I rebuilt the hub I cleaned the shell and pads with alcohol, but maybe I need to use something stonger? So if anyone has any suggestions, please let me know.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4564/...b93c4b16_h.jpgIMG20171107183603 by arty dave armour, on Flickr

I was enjoying the ride so much I forgot to take an 'out riding' photo, so here it is in the backyard again :)

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4456/...52823160_h.jpgIMG20171107183346 by arty dave armour, on Flickr

thumpism 11-07-17 06:25 PM


Originally Posted by boattail71 (Post 19977890)
This is branded "AMF." I think AMF bought up sporting goods brands in the 60's and 70's and even saved Harley Davidson, didn't they? Anyone know more about the AMF/Hercules collaboration? SA hub says November '63.

While AMF did purchase H-D in the early '70s (a dark period in the history of the brand, if you have a few hours to spare when asking any Harley oldtimer) and later resold to some Motor Company execs to become what it is now, I suspect they never owned Hercules. AMF was a sporting goods company, so I'd wager they merely acted as importers for the bikes that the English factory was happy to rebadge for them. I might be wrong.

thumpism 11-07-17 06:28 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Saw this project bike at the co-op tonight, a 3-speed CB Sports in 23". Someone will have a nice little bike when it's completed.
Attachment 587879

boattail71 11-07-17 09:38 PM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 19978889)
While AMF did purchase H-D in the early '70s (a dark period in the history of the brand, if you have a few hours to spare when asking any Harley oldtimer) and later resold to some Motor Company execs to become what it is now, I suspect they never owned Hercules. AMF was a sporting goods company, so I'd wager they merely acted as importers for the bikes that the English factory was happy to rebadge for them. I might be wrong.

I suspect you're right, Thump. Notice that AMF had their decals on the seat tube but the head badge is the classic Hercules. Hmmm...

johnnyspaghetti 11-07-17 09:53 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 19976578)
My stable is full, but here's a sweet, tall Humber in the Boston area:

https://boston.craigslist.org/bmw/bi...376340271.html

https://images.craigslist.org/00e0e_...Yp_600x450.jpg

That is something to behold. I'm out priced plus shipping would raise the average cost of my Raleighs above $50. This kind of thing does get scooped up around here but that high price slows a sale way down.

BigChief 11-07-17 10:04 PM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 19978889)
While AMF did purchase H-D in the early '70s (a dark period in the history of the brand, if you have a few hours to spare when asking any Harley oldtimer) and later resold to some Motor Company execs to become what it is now, I suspect they never owned Hercules. AMF was a sporting goods company, so I'd wager they merely acted as importers for the bikes that the English factory was happy to rebadge for them. I might be wrong.

You're not wrong. You hit the nail on the head. Especially about the old Harley bikers and AMF. It was about as popular at the time as CBS taking over Fender. And a whole bunch of different badges came out of the Nottingham factory.

SirMike1983 11-07-17 10:19 PM

I have a dissenting view on the fully loaded/deluxe Dawn bikes - I think the design is flawed as to running a fully-equipped, rod brake Dawn type bike on ISO 590 standard tires. I think an over-sized tire like a Panaracer might be OK, but on a standard sized set of Kendas or Duros, I found the ride much harsher than the same style of bike on 26 x 1-1/2 (650b in the French naming) wheels or on the DL-1 pattern wheels. The fully-equipped Dawn has its fans, but I am not really among them anymore - I think the extra tire size of the 1-1/2 tire (whether in 26 inches or in 28 inches) takes the harsh edge off the overloaded, smaller tires of the fully-equipped Dawn. That is certainly a minority view - Dawns have gained in popularity among collectors in recent years in the US, and they certainly have many fans.

But after fooling with roadsters of just about every sort of size and type, I think the 26 x 1-3/8 size has a limit as to how much weight they will comfortably run (maybe with the exception of very large variations like the Panaracer). I've sold several fully-equipped Dawns over the years and have never regretted that because I found the ride harsher than the DL-1 (28 x 1-1/2) or the mid-sized Hercules (26 x 1-1/2). Where the 26 x 1-3/8 size absolutely shines is on the somewhat lighter and post-war Raleigh Sports with hockey stick chainguard and cable brakes (or the S5 Sprite, or the FW Sports, etc).

gster 11-08-17 06:43 AM

2 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 19978889)
While AMF did purchase H-D in the early '70s (a dark period in the history of the brand, if you have a few hours to spare when asking any Harley oldtimer) and later resold to some Motor Company execs to become what it is now, I suspect they never owned Hercules. AMF was a sporting goods company, so I'd wager they merely acted as importers for the bikes that the English factory was happy to rebadge for them. I might be wrong.

You are correct.
I've got 2 AMF branded Hercules.
They just added a sticker to the chainguard.
AMF were big suppliers of Bowling alley equipment in the sixties.


Attachment 587952

Attachment 587953

Dsprok 11-08-17 07:32 AM

Arty Dave you are Cool Cat, keep that welding friend close. Bike looks great.

gster 11-08-17 07:37 AM


Originally Posted by arty dave (Post 19978636)
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4584/...6613ec61_h.jpgIMG20171107183657 by arty dave armour, on Flickr

My friend welded the new piece of threaded rod for the front drum yesterday, and I'd found a knurled thumb nut that looks similar to the original back adjuster nut. I took it out for a 5km ride, and while the bike is a real pleasure to ride, the front drums stopping power is underwhelming. I'd adjusted the lever pull and the actuator arm (?) so the pads contact the drum quite soon in the lever pull, and I'd compared the thickness of the pads with images online - there isn't much wear. I have a bike set up with modern 70mm SA drums and they stop really well. I may need to research cleaning the pads. When I rebuilt the hub I cleaned the shell and pads with alcohol, but maybe I need to use something stonger? So if anyone has any suggestions, please let me know.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4564/...b93c4b16_h.jpgIMG20171107183603 by arty dave armour, on Flickr

I was enjoying the ride so much I forgot to take an 'out riding' photo, so here it is in the backyard again :)

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4456/...52823160_h.jpgIMG20171107183346 by arty dave armour, on Flickr

Fantastic looking bike.
I think you'll find that no amount adjusting will ever get the brakes to work as well as a set of calipers.
You need to adopt a more leisurely riding style.
I have an old '65 Corvair with drums and although they're as good as any brakes from 1965, they're no where close to modern discs.
You really need to plan your stops and apply a lot of pressure to the pedal/levers.

bazil4696 11-08-17 11:40 AM

I agree with you, Gster.
My Gazelle with drum brakes is DANGEROUS when coming down a steep hill and having to stop at the bottom. Full on as hard as I can pull just slows it down, and I've had both wheels apart, cleaned, sanded, and adjusted them till the shoes were dragging, and still no better brakes than a '65 Corvair. luckily they're not worse in the rain, like a set of crispy John Bull pads on a wet chrome rim...
There isn't much info online about them either.

Salubrious 11-08-17 01:11 PM

2 Attachment(s)
My '35 Roadster is on the road in scorcher guise. 1935 state of the art braking (for Sturmey Archer), and unaccountably, it does stop. The rear hub is a type KB. The geometry is similar to a rod brake machine, with the front wheel a good distance out front. The ride is charming, very easy and smooth. The rims are Raleigh stainless, with stainless spokes.

I'm on the search for an enclosed chain guard and fenders. I have a set of Rudge fenders which I am hoping to trade out for the Raleigh versions. My plan is to strip and paint (I'm in no hurry; currently researching graphics), since this frame appears to have already been painted at least twice since original.

dweenk 11-08-17 01:50 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 19980437)
My '35 Roadster is on the road in scorcher guise. 1935 state of the art braking (for Sturmey Archer), and unaccountably, it does stop. The rear hub is a type KB. The geometry is similar to a rod brake machine, with the front wheel a good distance out front. The ride is charming, very easy and smooth. The rims are Raleigh stainless, with stainless spokes.

I'm on the search for an enclosed chain guard and fenders. I have a set of Rudge fenders which I am hoping to trade out for the Raleigh versions. My plan is to strip and paint (I'm in no hurry; currently researching graphics), since this frame appears to have already been painted at least twice since original.

I know a guy who has a pair of NOS fenders that I think are for a DL-1. He wants $75 for the pair, but there are no fender stays. PM me and I will give you his phone number. I am pretty sure he will ship.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:05 PM.


Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.