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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

arex 01-15-16 06:09 PM

700c works on the old Raleighs, but you're limited on tire size. 700x32 is about as big as you can go and still use fenders. I have 700x38s on mine, but there is very little space between the tire and the fork crown...I had to try several different tires to find one at the higher range that would fit. Width isn't the problem, it's the "height".



Originally Posted by 3speedslow (Post 18461923)
Thanks nlerner!

I wonder if it makes that bit of difference between the 1 3/8 590 and the 1 1/4 597 size doable for a 700 size to fit and have room for fenders.

I go research...


MeadMan2 01-15-16 06:30 PM


Originally Posted by Fidbloke (Post 18457776)
Yeah.
Positive Earth was a strange idea. There must have been a reason for it, but it's obscured by time now.
My first car had a sticker under the bonnet, that said "This vehicle is wired NEGATIVE EARTH", as a reminder.

I'm a part owner of a Farmall Model H tractor & it is positive ground.

MeatloafOvadose 01-15-16 09:26 PM

Does anyone know of a iso 597 whitewall tire other than NOS ones on ebay? I can only find 650A/590 unless i'm overlooking this! They are gonna go on the 1953 Dunelt

BigChief 01-15-16 09:30 PM


Originally Posted by MeadMan2 (Post 18462961)
I'm a part owner of a Farmall Model H tractor & it is positive ground.

I guess positive ground wasn't an entirely British thing. Neither was right side shifting on motorcycles. I remember Sportsters were right side in the 60s.
Raleigh did change the hand brake levers to right/rear for the American market. Well, except for the rod brake roadsters. They didn't bother switching the linkages around so us Americans had to get used to the British style left/rear brakes on our DL-1s. Things were more interesting before all this government standardization.

elcraft 01-15-16 09:56 PM


Originally Posted by Fidbloke (Post 18456324)
I think most of the threads on older Nottingham bikes are BSF.
The current ISO bicycle thread standard is based on the old BSC (British Standard Cycle).

The threads on the Sturmey Archer Dynohubs are actually BA (British Associated). The terminals are 2BA and the four nuts that hold the thing together are 6BA.

During my apprenticeship, we were taught about all these as completely separate thread forms and it confused the hell out of me when I first looked at Bike Forums and everyone kept talking about bikes having 'Whitworth' theads. To me, Whitworth threads are very coarse threads used on the huge bolts which held steam engines and Battleships together.!

It's possible that the cotter pins might be 1/4" Whitworth, as they look quite coarse, but I'm pretty certain that everything else on a Raleigh is BSF.
I've since Googled this and found that someone has lumped all the old British threads together under the name Whitworth. I can't see how that helps anyone... (Grrr!)

Anyway, that's my rant over.

Finally, some long needed clarity on British threading standards! In the States, we find old door locks and hinge fasteners with a bizarre threading that I've always wondered if it too, is a British system. I wonder if there is some guide or reference on these standards and their more common usages.......

elcraft 01-15-16 11:03 PM


Originally Posted by elcraft (Post 18463270)
Finally, some long needed clarity on British threading standards! In the States, we find old door locks and hinge fasteners with a bizarre threading that I've always wondered if it too, is a British system. I wonder if there is some guide or reference on these standards and their more common usages.......

fifmyself!! Found it here:
British Standard Whitworth, B.S.F and B.A sockets and spanners.

Fidbloke 01-16-16 05:09 AM


Originally Posted by MeadMan2 (Post 18462961)
I'm a part owner of a Farmall Model H tractor & it is positive ground.

Yeah, there must have been a reason for them to do that. So many older vehicles were wired like that..

Fidbloke 01-16-16 05:12 AM


Originally Posted by elcraft (Post 18463270)
Finally, some long needed clarity on British threading standards! In the States, we find old door locks and hinge fasteners with a bizarre threading that I've always wondered if it too, is a British system. I wonder if there is some guide or reference on these standards and their more common usages.......

I'll have a look, to see if I still have some of my apprentice notes and text books.

For starters, BA threads were mainly used on electrical devices - Old Wireless sets, Aircraft and car electrical components and instruments.
Pretty much anywhere where you had brass screws and electrical terminals...

Oh, and Sturmey Archer Dynohubs of course.!

Bicyclz 01-16-16 08:32 AM

Great thread & I hope I'm not out of line showing my 1960s French Diamant Mixte.
I've added a 3 speed Sturmey Archer running AM internals. Set up to run as a single speed in top gear, leaving two lower gears for hills, loads, etc: http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/...%20profile.jpg

Love this mixte with its curved laterals....
http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/...nt%20drive.jpg

This machine was bought as a Peugeot, but it ain't!

It has all original parts except for SA front lamp & 3 speed hub etc. A definite improvement on the original 3/4 speed Cyclo RD.
I used the down-tube lever braze-on to add a stop for the SA cabling, which leaves it possible to return it to its original set up.
Has new tyres on the 650b rims & only the brake calipers 'let it down' right now. Love the twin rubbered pedals & cool Nervar chain-wheel. And the substantial alloy guards.
The address tag on the stem clamp also adds to its interest for me.

http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/...z/DSCN1609.jpg

Bars would benefit from a re-chrome, but I love the shape & seek a better replacement when available: )
The SA trigger will have its cover replaced anon.
It is a 'work in progress' right now; )
It could use a twin sprung saddle, but the Turbo is a neat & comfortable option meanwhile.

markk900 01-16-16 10:36 AM

What a gorgeous bike - the chainwheel especially. And the combination of cream/white and light brown is very striking and very unusual (maybe not in France!)....

dweenk 01-16-16 11:10 AM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 18461239)
Forgive me, but I love posting this photo after a setup like that. Don't hate me. These were on the tool board at the shop where I used to work and I purchased them when the place closed down.

I bought a set of combination Whitworth wrenches through Amazon last summer. Big Red Toolbox in England was the source. It took quite a while to get through customs though.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=498702

adventurepdx 01-16-16 11:12 AM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 18461433)
My regular commuting bike has been out of commission, so I've been doing the daily commute on my Raleigh Lenton Tourist. I recently set it up with one of those B&M "retro" lamps. Front generator hub is one of the cheap ones that V-O used to sell, and I had to remove spacers and file down the axle to fit the Raleigh fork. This bike is actually set up with 700c wheels and 32mm tires, but plenty of clearance for fenders. Here's what winter looks like in the Boston area at this point:

That's a beaut!

I too have one of those Novatech dynamos that VO used to sell, and had it built into a 650A wheel by the OP for my Raleigh. Yeah, there was a bit of "brute force" to get it to fit in the front fork, but it works. And yeah, the B+M Retrotec lights are great, especially for old three speeds. While it still isn't as classy as an old lamp, it works heaps better.

dweenk 01-16-16 11:14 AM


Originally Posted by Bicyclz (Post 18463760)

Love this mixte with its curved laterals....
http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/...nt%20drive.jpg

Love the chain guard.

adventurepdx 01-16-16 11:21 AM


Originally Posted by Bicyclz (Post 18463760)
Great thread & I hope I'm not out of line showing my 1960s French Diamant Mixte.
I've added a 3 speed Sturmey Archer running AM internals. Set up to run as a single speed in top gear, leaving two lower gears for hills, loads, etc:

Another beautiful bike! I really liked the "wing" chainguards on the French bikes. They weren't as common on British bikes, but I've seen a few early Raleigh Sprites with that style chainguard.

Velocivixen 01-16-16 05:14 PM

Thanks to @gugie I now have more space in the garage as well as a nice 12" pump for the Raleigh Twenty AND a saddle bag. I traded my too large Raleigh Sports for the pump and the bag. What a great forum member.

Here are some photos along with close up of the replacement decals from VeloCals. Original rear brake caliper had routing from the bottom up, and now am using modern Tektro R559's so there's that unsightly bend in the brake cable. Oh well. The rack is a loved Bontrager and it's very sturdy. I'm using this rack so I can actually go do light grocery shopping with this bike.

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1561/...5db0083b_z.jpg12" Frame Pump R20 by velocivixen, on Flickr

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1495/...74ef3e40_z.jpgSilver Frame Pump by velocivixen, on Flickr

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1479/...c705ce9a_z.jpgVinyl Seat Tube Decals R20 by velocivixen, on Flickr

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1548/...74813403_z.jpgClose Up Frame Pump by velocivixen, on Flickr

gugie 01-16-16 05:20 PM

Hey, I think I got the better end of that deal...I still have a few pumps and bags, but now I'm good to go on the next Portland Tweed ride!

Velocivixen 01-16-16 05:34 PM


Originally Posted by gugie (Post 18464749)
Hey, I think I got the better end of that deal...I still have a few pumps and bags, but now I'm good to go on the next Portland Tweed ride!

I just hope you or someone you know can get some use out of that Raleigh. At least you won't have to worry about the paint. :thumb: I appreciate the trade. Not sure if the bag is water proof or resistant, so bought some spray on water proofing for it. Can't wait to install it on the Univega. Thanks again.

gugie 01-16-16 06:07 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 18464771)
I just hope you or someone you know can get some use out of that Raleigh. At least you won't have to worry about the paint. :thumb: I appreciate the trade. Not sure if the bag is water proof or resistant, so bought some spray on water proofing for it. Can't wait to install it on the Univega. Thanks again.

I think I'm just going to attach the baskets and use it for grocery runs! That and visitors-I can put several bikes in the back of the pickup, 4-5 people can fit in the double cab, ride down to the waterfront, and tool around Portland.

BigChief 01-16-16 06:43 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 18464742)
Thanks to @gugie I now have more space in the garage as well as a nice 12" pump for the Raleigh Twenty AND a saddle bag. I traded my too large Raleigh Sports for the pump and the bag. What a great forum member.

Here are some photos along with close up of the replacement decals from VeloCals. Original rear brake caliper had routing from the bottom up, and now am using modern Tektro R559's so there's that unsightly bend in the brake cable. Oh well. The rack is a loved Bontrager and it's very sturdy. I'm using this rack so I can actually go do light grocery shopping with this bike.

That 20 looks GREAT. I should take my brake apart before I say anything but...The Tektro 800a brake I have on my Rudge sure looks like you could swap the pinch bolt and adjuster around and route from the bottom just like the old brakes. Plus, they're left side so you can route right lever/rear brake without crossing the frame. For 35 bucks, I think it would be worth it for this bike. It's so perfect otherwise. Might have to shim the pinch bolt out a bit, but I think it would work on the front side of the caliper.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=498767
edit. Looks like it may need a longer pinch bolt. The angle of the cable out of the casing might be too steep. Too bad there's not enough clearance to mount the adjuster behind the caliper. Still, it could be done. Just need a long enough bolt with a hole drilled through it.

gster 01-16-16 07:16 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by Bicyclz (Post 18463760)
Great thread & I hope I'm not out of line showing my 1960s French Diamant Mixte.
I've added a 3 speed Sturmey Archer running AM internals. Set up to run as a single speed in top gear, leaving two lower gears for hills, loads, etc: http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/...%20profile.jpg

Love this mixte with its curved laterals....
http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/...nt%20drive.jpg

This machine was bought as a Peugeot, but it ain't!

It has all original parts except for SA front lamp & 3 speed hub etc. A definite improvement on the original 3/4 speed Cyclo RD.
I used the down-tube lever braze-on to add a stop for the SA cabling, which leaves it possible to return it to its original set up.
Has new tyres on the 650b rims & only the brake calipers 'let it down' right now. Love the twin rubbered pedals & cool Nervar chain-wheel. And the substantial alloy guards.
The address tag on the stem clamp also adds to its interest for me.

http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/...z/DSCN1609.jpg

Bars would benefit from a re-chrome, but I love the shape & seek a better replacement when available: )
The SA trigger will have its cover replaced anon.
It is a 'work in progress' right now; )
It could use a twin sprung saddle, but the Turbo is a neat & comfortable option meanwhile.

Similar chain guard to the one common on Eatons Gliders

Velocivixen 01-16-16 08:40 PM

@BigChief - I bought that exact brake for my Raleigh Twenty, switched the pinch bolt so the cable would come up from the bottom. As you noted the angle of the cable is off plus you can't open the caliper all the way because the arm hits part of the pinch bolt pieces. I ended up putting those brakes on the Raleigh Sport I traded with @gugie and also provided him with the original brakes.

I had gugie remove brake mounting plate on the R20 and braze on a real seat stay bridge at a lower level so I could use modern brakes.
@gster - I've seen gliders on my local CL at times. They look interesting. I believe I've read here that Raleigh made them for a Canadian department store, no?

adventurepdx 01-16-16 09:45 PM


Originally Posted by gugie (Post 18464749)
Hey, I think I got the better end of that deal...I still have a few pumps and bags, but now I'm good to go on the next Portland Tweed ride!

Now we need to see photos of your trade!

Hopefully Tweed Ride will happen this year...

michaelz28 01-16-16 10:48 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 18464742)
Thanks to @gugie I now have more space in the garage as well as a nice 12" pump for the Raleigh Twenty AND a saddle bag. I traded my too large Raleigh Sports for the pump and the bag. What a great forum member.

Here are some photos along with close up of the replacement decals from VeloCals. Original rear brake caliper had routing from the bottom up, and now am using modern Tektro R559's so there's that unsightly bend in the brake cable. Oh well. The rack is a loved Bontrager and it's very sturdy. I'm using this rack so I can actually go do light grocery shopping with this bike.

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1561/...5db0083b_z.jpg12" Frame Pump R20 by velocivixen, on Flickr

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1495/...74ef3e40_z.jpgSilver Frame Pump by velocivixen, on Flickr

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1479/...c705ce9a_z.jpgVinyl Seat Tube Decals R20 by velocivixen, on Flickr

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1548/...74813403_z.jpgClose Up Frame Pump by velocivixen, on Flickr

boy , that thing is really nice ..

Velocivixen 01-16-16 10:51 PM

Thanks @michaelz28. I just realized that I do not own a spare 20" tube!!! Time to go shopping.

BigChief 01-16-16 11:39 PM

Then, you've already tried it. So it does look like you would have to make a custom pinch bolt to align the cable. Well, if you ever feel like revisiting the cable routing, I think it could be done with a custom built pinch bolt. You would need a long enough stainless bolt, looks like maybe a 10-32, a sleeve or a bunch of washers, a die to clean up the threads after drilling the bolt and a flat nut to mount the adjuster. Not a lot of clearance there but enough for a flat nut.

I love the custom brake mount. So much nicer than the original big clunky plate.

gugie 01-17-16 12:13 AM


Originally Posted by adventurepdx (Post 18465198)
Now we need to see photos of your trade!

Hopefully Tweed Ride will happen this year...

You ask, I provide. I have a nice tweed jacket, need to go down to the local thrift store and get some tweed pants, and I'm good to go!

The thing about @Velocivixen you need to know is that she will tear down a bike, soak it in naval jelly, clean it spotless, wax it, grease it, replace worn consumables, etc. until the bike is restored as well as can be. Not a speck of dirt, every bearing well greased and adjusted better than factory condition.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1685/2...f3c9aec4_b.jpg

It cost me a Minnehaha rear bag and a Pashley pump. I think you would all agree that I got the better end of the deal. I think there's some free torchwork in her future...

gugie 01-17-16 12:16 AM


Originally Posted by Bicyclz (Post 18463760)
Great thread & I hope I'm not out of line showing my 1960s French Diamant Mixte.
I've added a 3 speed Sturmey Archer running AM internals. Set up to run as a single speed in top gear, leaving two lower gears for hills, loads, etc: http://i1212.photobucket.com/albums/...%20profile.jpg

Love this mixte with its curved laterals....

LOVE the new paint! Done by yourself?

BigChief 01-17-16 04:40 AM


Originally Posted by gugie (Post 18465365)
You ask, I provide. I have a nice tweed jacket, need to go down to the local thrift store and get some tweed pants, and I'm good to go!

The thing about @Velocivixen you need to know is that she will tear down a bike, soak it in naval jelly, clean it spotless, wax it, grease it, replace worn consumables, etc. until the bike is restored as well as can be. Not a speck of dirt, every bearing well greased and adjusted better than factory condition.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1685/2...f3c9aec4_b.jpg

It cost me a Minnehaha rear bag and a Pashley pump. I think you would all agree that I got the better end of the deal. I think there's some free torchwork in her future...

Nice! I was expecting to see a real beater...sort of like the bikes I buy. All freshly serviced too. Nice bike.

thumpism 01-17-16 08:38 AM

Someone please buy this so I don't have to get a second, identical M23 Sports!

Raleigh 3-spd Bicycle

Raleigh 3-spd Bicycle - $65 (Chester)

http://images.craigslist.org/00D0D_g...GA_600x450.jpg

2128 E. Hundred Rd
condition: good
make / manufacturer: Raleigh
model name / number: 3-spd

Nice Raleigh 3-spd bicycle in good condition for only $65.

Velocivixen 01-17-16 09:20 AM

@gugie - I forgot to mention that when I attempted to true the front wheel I broke a spoke and noticed some nipples were rounded. Took the wheel to Sugar Wheel Works and they hooked me up with 4 spokes and some brass nipples. Look closely and you'll find them. The wheel is not true to my standards, however given condition of the rim and such, it's "good enough". Didn't want to break any more spokes. Thanks for the compliments. The baskets are large enough for you to actually haul your guests in them - no need for other bikes. :p


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