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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

Velocivixen 01-25-16 11:10 AM

@adventurepex - don't you have a drum brake on your bike? Or was that someone else from the club?

Salubrious 01-25-16 11:17 AM

If you can find an example of where a drum brake was used on a three-speed then you might be alright. But I do recommend being careful, as when drum or disk brakes are used the stress on the fork is great, while when regular brakes are used the stress on the fork is nearly the same as normal riding.

I have a Surly Pugsley; early versions of the Pugsley forks were failing on just this account (as I recall, they also had brazed on water bottle fittings, which contributed to the problem).

So if you are planning drum brakes for your vintage ride, I recommend vintage drum brakes as they are less likely to cause a problem.

adventurepdx 01-25-16 01:11 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 18485209)
@adventurepex - don't you have a drum brake on your bike? Or was that someone else from the club?

I think in order to page me, you have to spell it @adventurepdx ;)

To answer the question, no, I don't have a drum brake. But Steve does, and that's the pic I posted in post 9324 (!) which is copied below.


Originally Posted by adventurepdx (Post 18482956)
My friend Steve built a 70's Sports with modern S-A drum brakes. Seems to work well.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8721/1...ef7730b9_z.jpg


clasher 01-25-16 02:06 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 18485226)
If you can find an example of where a drum brake was used on a three-speed then you might be alright. But I do recommend being careful, as when drum or disk brakes are used the stress on the fork is great, while when regular brakes are used the stress on the fork is nearly the same as normal riding.

I have a Surly Pugsley; early versions of the Pugsley forks were failing on just this account (as I recall, they also had brazed on water bottle fittings, which contributed to the problem).

So if you are planning drum brakes for your vintage ride, I recommend vintage drum brakes as they are less likely to cause a problem.

Well the guy with the bent fork put modern compressionless housing on his brakes and is running the 90mm brakes. I run 70mm drums with standard spiral housing and I've never needed more braking power. All the vintage drum brakes I've seen have drums that look about the same size as the modern 70mm ones.

Slash5 01-25-16 02:16 PM

I've got a couple of 3 speed drum brake installations but haven't ridden them much. I never thought about that, you are stressing the end of the forks on a fork that wasn't designed for it. Same problem as disk brakes. I've seen a thread or 2 where people have folded rigid front forks doing "stoppies" with disk brakes. The front fork on my Surly Pugsley was recalled for that issue.
I would assume as long as you show restraint it won't be a problem.

ascherer 01-25-16 02:27 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Your take please: is this spindle borked? Looks to me like a new cotter will rest nicely on the surface, but I'd like second, third, fourth opinions. Thanks!

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=500507

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=500506

nlerner 01-25-16 02:33 PM


Originally Posted by ascherer (Post 18485823)
Your take please: is this spindle borked? Looks to me like a new cotter will rest nicely on the surface, but I'd like second, third, fourth opinions. Thanks!

That's beyond hope, imo. You'll have a hard time getting the two arms to align, much less getting a cotter to make a snug fit. I've never seen that kind of wear on a hardened-steel spindle.

noglider 01-25-16 02:34 PM

Borked. I mean, I don't really know, but it seems likely that the crank will slip forward and backward on the spindle. Unless you put it in your wife's bike. ;)

Jakenks 01-25-16 02:35 PM

1 Attachment(s)
My recently acquired 1970 Raleigh Superbe.

ascherer 01-25-16 02:45 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 18485846)
That's beyond hope, imo. You'll have a hard time getting the two arms to align, much less getting a cotter to make a snug fit. I've never seen that kind of wear on a hardened-steel spindle.

It's not worn, that's collateral damage from a cotter drill-out.

ascherer 01-25-16 02:49 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 18485848)
Unless you put it in your wife's bike. ;)

Hey! I'm telling!

Actually, it *is* from her bike. It was unbelievably stuck. Once I got it open, the grease on the non-drive side had hardened to the consistency of dried wax, while the drive side was as nice as the day it was installed. Go figure.

adventurepdx 01-25-16 03:00 PM


Originally Posted by clasher (Post 18485744)
I run 70mm drums with standard spiral housing and I've never needed more braking power. All the vintage drum brakes I've seen have drums that look about the same size as the modern 70mm ones.

That would make sense, since there were drum brakes available in the era of the vintage British three speed. I don't think Sturmey Archer wouldn't make drum brakes that couldn't be used on Raleighs of the era!

browngw 01-25-16 06:18 PM


Originally Posted by ascherer (Post 18485823)
Your take please: is this spindle borked? Looks to me like a new cotter will rest nicely on the surface, but I'd like second, third, fourth opinions. Thanks!
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=500507

A spot of weld and some filing might save it.

markk900 01-25-16 06:45 PM

+1 - though it depends if there is anything super special about that particular spindle. A replacement might be had at the LBS or coop that would cost less than even a quick welding job....

gster 01-25-16 06:49 PM

2 Attachment(s)
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=500591http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=500592I've come to the conclusion that these old 3 speed bikes are pretty much a waste of time and decided to get something modern and practical for the city.
I'm just not sure where to attach the kick stand.

PalmettoUpstate 01-25-16 07:04 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 18486521)
I've come to the conclusion that these old 3 speed bikes are pretty much a waste of time and decided to get something modern and practical for the city.

Ha-Ha! Very good. Lemme guess...

Top one is called a "Dorfmann" and bottom one a "Dufous?"

BigChief 01-25-16 09:59 PM

Along with old style cable casings and smaller diameter drums, I think making a longer anchor bar would be helpful. The fork legs have a lot more beef near the top.

ascherer 01-26-16 07:28 AM


Originally Posted by markk900 (Post 18486511)
+1 - though it depends if there is anything super special about that particular spindle. A replacement might be had at the LBS or coop that would cost less than even a quick welding job....

It's a standard Raleigh 16GC from a late 70's DL22L. Will check the local sources. Thanks, @markk900, @browngw, @noglider and @nierner.

noglider 01-26-16 09:00 AM

@ascherer, Larry might have some. Also, since Hal at Bicycle Habitat will know what it is, perhaps he stocks old parts, too. I don't know, but it's worth asking.

I have an entire cottered two-chainring crankset from a Falcon 10-speed bike. I don't know if the spindle has the same dimensions. Perhaps not, but maybe it would work anyway.

arex 01-26-16 09:21 AM


Originally Posted by browngw (Post 18486458)
A spot of weld and some filing might save it.

Agreed. It'd be a trivial job for a machine shop.

ascherer 01-26-16 10:12 AM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 18487516)
@ascherer, Larry might have some. Also, since Hal at Bicycle Habitat will know what it is, perhaps he stocks old parts, too. I don't know, but it's worth asking.

I have an entire cottered two-chainring crankset from a Falcon 10-speed bike. I don't know if the spindle has the same dimensions. Perhaps not, but maybe it would work anyway.

I'm going to check in with Larry this weekend. I think I'll need the drive side arm and chainwheel too. I may very well have a spindle in my storage unit - not sure what I kept when my old teacher gave me a ton of old gear, and then after I downsized to move to the city. I do know that if I ever find a Raleigh Pro or International frameset (your new build has made me too jealous) I have enough components stored to put together a sweet period-appropriate build! Seeing those parts always makes me dream, even though I don't have room for anything.

noglider 01-26-16 10:32 AM

The Raleigh Pro is made of a fairly common design, and if you are not sentimental about Raleigh Pros, you could probably get an equivalent bike from some other maker. As far as I can tell, it's a short-but-not-too-short-wheelbase road racer. The International seems to be of a more uncommon design, though I could be wrong. It's a long-ish-wheelbase sport tourer made of lighter material than other frames of that design.

You will get an International if you want one and keep watching. They're out there. In the meantime, you're welcome to try mine.

I think you could make a townie 3-speed out of one. Hasn't someone in this thread already done that?

adventurepdx 01-26-16 11:28 AM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 18487775)
You will get an International if you want one and keep watching. They're out there. In the meantime, you're welcome to try mine...I think you could make a townie 3-speed out of one. Hasn't someone in this thread already done that?

I don't know about a "townie" International three speed, but @AZORCH has a "roadie" International three speed:
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3907/...6afcce90_b.jpg
https://marksbikes.wordpress.com/bikes/

Sixty Fiver 01-26-16 11:45 AM


Originally Posted by adventurepdx (Post 18487939)
I don't know about a "townie" International three speed, but @AZORCH has a "roadie" International three speed:

That is hella sweet... I keep looking for an International but they keep coming up in the wrong size.

If this goes on for much longer I will have to fire up the torch and build my own.

:D

Velocivixen 01-26-16 11:52 AM

What's the smallest size they made for an International?

noglider 01-26-16 12:34 PM

Uh oh. I hope I don't create a run on them, increasing demand and the market value.

Listen, folks, the Raleigh International is a piece of crap. Just avoid it, OK?

noglider 01-26-16 12:36 PM

@Velocivixen, according to Sheldon's page on the model, there were a 20.5" and a 21.5" size.

Velocivixen 01-26-16 12:38 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 18488170)
@Velocivixen, according to Sheldon's page on the model, there were a 20.5" and a 21.5" size.

Don't worry. I rarely find anything in my size that is of broader interest. ;)

noglider 01-26-16 12:40 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 18488180)
Don't worry. I rarely find anything in my size that is of broader interest. ;)

I won't worry, as you and I don't need the same size. ;)

gster 01-26-16 10:24 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 18488184)
I won't worry, as you and I don't need the same size. ;)

Need I remind you that this is a family forum. Settle down.


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