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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

gster 09-24-17 07:38 AM

Gimme a Break!
 
3 Attachment(s)
I was having a hell of a time getting the back break on the '61 Superbe to work properly. No amount of adjusting, oiling would get the calipers to close evenly. The drive side would always freeze in the closed position.
I had a closer look at an unmolested original bike (1972 Superbe) and noticed that the rear spring was mounted in a certain way and my '61 was the opposite.....
Attachment 582026

Attachment 582027

Attachment 582028
The same but different.

I didn't know that there were two styles of spring, front and rear seem to be inverted.
I routed through the parts bin and found what I believe to be the proper spring, put it on and now it works properly.
I'm going to have to review my other projects and see if I've messed these up......

3speedslow 09-24-17 08:44 AM

Nice detective work! @gster

BigChief 09-24-17 10:24 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 19883204)
I was having a hell of a time getting the back break on the '61 Superbe to work properly. No amount of adjusting, oiling would get the calipers to close evenly. The drive side would always freeze in the closed position.
I had a closer look at an unmolested original bike (1972 Superbe) and noticed that the rear spring was mounted in a certain way and my '61 was the opposite.....
Attachment 582026

Attachment 582027

Attachment 582028
The same but different.

I didn't know that there were two styles of spring, front and rear seem to be inverted.
I routed through the parts bin and found what I believe to be the proper spring, put it on and now it works properly.
I'm going to have to review my other projects and see if I've messed these up......

The lower spring is correct. I have no idea about the upper one. Never seen one like it. Unless it once was a Raleigh spring and somebody bent it around. Great to have a well stocked parts bin!

SirMike1983 09-24-17 10:51 AM

The top spring might be a Schwinn or Schwinn-approved German/Swiss-made(?). They're a slightly different shape and sometimes the loops actually end up resting on the fender top.

3speedslow 09-24-17 10:55 AM

I rooted around in my bin and found a cable hanger that had a nice chrome cable adjuster on it. Tried it on the Raleigh and it fit so I have the front brake done. I will run the back brake as non adjusting till I locate another set up.

Gotta' keep this project moving...

Scipunk 09-24-17 12:07 PM

Started testing the vinegar / aluminum foil on some of the rust. So far i am excited:
Kickstand
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4351/...9fb7b4c3_b.jpgRustrem3 by David Ashe, on Flickr
Rear brake
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4488/...608d8f41_b.jpgRustrem2 by David Ashe, on Flickr
The bottom of the expedition sized rear basket...lol
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4379/...547b696e_b.jpgRustrem1 by David Ashe, on Flickr

More to come :)

BigChief 09-24-17 12:21 PM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 19883165)
Nice older one on CL here in town. Looks like a 23" frame.

https://richmond.craigslist.org/bik/...312189340.html

1960s Raleigh 3 speed - $75 (RVA/Maymont)

https://images.craigslist.org/00o0o_...NB_600x450.jpg

make / manufacturer: Raleigh
model name / number: Sports

Raleigh 3-speed Sports model bicycle. I don't know the exact year but it is from the 1960s.

The bike is obviously old, but it still rides fine. The tires hold air and the gears shift. Best suited for someone under 6' tall, but I'm a bit taller and it is definitely still ride-able. Good for cruising around town.

I'll throw in the red lock that is pictured.

I accept cash, Venmo, or PayPal.

That's a nice one. 62-64 23" wow. Lucky for me it's far away.

3speedslow 09-24-17 04:01 PM

@Scipunk if you really want to clean that basket all over, get some brass bristle brushes from a hardware store. It makes life easy!

gna 09-24-17 04:06 PM

3 Attachment(s)
Many here have seen my daughter on her Raleigh Space Rider on the Lake Pepin 3-speed tour the past few years. The soon-to-be 12-year-old wanted to ride bikes last weekend, but her knees nearly hit the handlebars. When I tried to raise the seat yet again, the seat post popped out--she's too tall!

I pulled down this 19" Dunelt that I fixed for a friend, and to my surprise, my daughter could ride it. The friend never came to get it, so you snooze, you lose. My daughter wanted a coaster brake, so it was off to MMRB. The only coaster brake 3 speed hub they had was a TCW 3, and the rim was bent, so they threw in a regular wheel with an AW. I strippped the spokes and laced up the TCW with the best spokes and nipples, rebuilt the hub
, and transferred it to the Dunelt. I spent most of this hot afternoon putting on a rack, moving baskets, lights, tweaking, and getting it ready for my daughter.

3speedslow 09-24-17 04:44 PM

Killer Dunelt! She's good to go for a couple more years.

BigChief 09-24-17 05:15 PM

+1 Very nicely done. Good job!

Scipunk 09-24-17 05:29 PM


Originally Posted by 3speedslow (Post 19884022)
@Scipunk if you really want to clean that basket all over, get some brass bristle brushes from a hardware store. It makes life easy!

I have a brass brush somewhere...lol Itg works better than the Vinegar / Aluminum foil.

I also have my dremel sanding kit (flappy sanding wheels) and i believe they make a brass dremel attachment

I also have oxcylic acid? to try on the heavier rust. We will see how that goes :)

BigChief 09-24-17 06:03 PM

I'm going to get on my soap box and put in my 2 cents about brakes on light roadsters. The extra money spent on salmon Kool Stop pads is worth every cent. They clearly out perform the cheap gray pads and even Fibrax. And if you're replacing a set of John Bulls that have been on the bike since 1974, you'll be entering a new universe of stopping power. Lately, I've been playing around customizing my Rudge scorcher. I installed a pair of Tektro R559 dual pivots mostly for the cool factor. Would I use these on a regular light roadster? NO. The combination of the Raleigh lever and the long cable housing just doesn't have enough travel to operate the Tektro properly. I was very fussy truing the side to side on these rims. They're very close. I had the pads adjusted a mouse whisker away from the rims and still, too much of the lever travel was used up before full brake. Adding the cable stops to the top tube and eliminating 18" of housing did buy me more room than I thought. The rear brake is good now, but all and all, it is a lot of extra trouble to go through for only a marginal improvement. Unless you're a scorcher and don't want all that extra weight of steel calipers slowing you down.

capnjonny 09-24-17 06:59 PM

5 Attachment(s)
I just finished the refurb of this 1969 Raleigh Sport 23" men's frame. Here are some before and after pics.

Under all that dirt the paint on the frame was amazingly good. I cleaned everything and painted everything with Naval jelly. that gort rid of the rust . then I used Rustoleum black spray can lacquer to touch up the bare spots , then sanded everything lightly with 1000 grit wet/dry and clear coated everything with Rustoleum clear lacquer. I lost the small decals on the fork and the thin pin striping on the fenders but overall it looks great.

I swapped out the rear cogs for a 24 tooth from Amazon and put on the Wellgo pedals for a good platform, The aluminum bars and stainless stem I got from the bin at the bike Exchange.

I took it for a test drive Saturday and it goes well. The lower gearing makes going up moderately steep hills possible and the other 2 gears are good for flat and down hill. I will probably put it up for sale now that it's finished. At 6'5" it is still a little small for me. It sure is a beauty though and someone is going to get a great riding bike.

Dsprok 09-24-17 07:58 PM

Nice work Capnjonny! How did you get the rear reflector rubber bright white again?

Sixty Fiver 09-24-17 08:07 PM

Nice to see that the lights are still on and hope everyone is well.

Have just started to get back on a bike that does not have a motor and think a certain old Raleigh Sports needs to get out for a fall ride.

SirMike1983 09-24-17 09:41 PM

I think there will always be people interested in and tinkering with these bikes. Like Ford Model A buffs or the air cooled VW Beetle folks. It has a strong, niche following in the old bike realm.

BigChief 09-24-17 10:37 PM

Good to see you again!

Miller72 09-25-17 06:49 AM

5spd hub
 

Originally Posted by johnnyspaghetti (Post 19868502)
I am considering giving an offer for this Dunelt 5-speed. Hub is date stamped 67 11. no front fender otherwise looking mostly complete & original.

https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/r...277071875.html

Dying to know!!
Did you break the bank and buy it!?
If I was just 8/9 states closer I would already have it LOL!!

nlerner 09-25-17 07:13 AM

Over the weekend, I broke down and started cleaning up this '62 lady's Raleigh Sports. Everything was covered in a wonderfully preservative layer of grime, and once I removed that with some polishing compound, the original finish was really shining. This lousy basement photo doesn't quite do it justice:

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4383/...704a283b_c.jpg

The teardown was really easy as every nut and bolt came loose easily. This machine was treated well over its life (or stored well, more likely).

plympton 09-25-17 07:16 AM

3 Attachment(s)
Attachment 582142

Attachment 582143

Attachment 582144Well back from Maine and since we have had 4 days of tropical storm weather on Cape Cod I started to take the Raleigh apart. I am calling it a 1952 (serial number no help) in honor of the owners name inscribed on the crank arm. I searched him on ancestry.com and he was born in 1952 which is consistent with the changes made to the bike in the 60's when he would have been about 12yo. There are a few nuts and bolts that are not period but over all everything looks right. Rookie mistake was buying the BikeHand tool kit. I didn't need a thing in it. I have just ordered two Park bottom bracket tools [can't get the BB off. I am concerned about a video I saw on removing the BB. I bent 2 pipe clamps (yes pipe clamps) trying to remove cotter. I finally used heat. Now the video shows a plastic race. If so it's probably NG now. I've tried three different paint strippers. The repaint came off easy. The factory paint not so much. Back to Maine today to winterize cabin back to bike next week.

Scipunk 09-25-17 08:27 AM


Originally Posted by plympton (Post 19885137)
Attachment 582142

Attachment 582143

Attachment 582144Well back from Maine and since we have had 4 days of tropical storm weather on Cape Cod I started to take the Raleigh apart. I am calling it a 1952 (serial number no help) in honor of the owners name inscribed on the crank arm. I searched him on ancestry.com and he was born in 1952 which is consistent with the changes made to the bike in the 60's when he would have been about 12yo. There are a few nuts and bolts that are not period but over all everything looks right. Rookie mistake was buying the BikeHand tool kit. I didn't need a thing in it. I have just ordered two Park bottom bracket tools [can't get the BB off. I am concerned about a video I saw on removing the BB. I bent 2 pipe clamps (yes pipe clamps) trying to remove cotter. I finally used heat. Now the video shows a plastic race. If so it's probably NG now. I've tried three different paint strippers. The repaint came off easy. The factory paint not so much. Back to Maine today to winterize cabin back to bike next week.

Man i do love those full chainguards! I am watching this closely as i am going to be going through similar stuff with newer bikes (64, 69 and 73)

Is that the Yaheetech bike stand and if so how do you like it?

BigChief 09-25-17 08:55 AM


Originally Posted by plympton (Post 19885137)
Attachment 582142

Attachment 582143

Attachment 582144Well back from Maine and since we have had 4 days of tropical storm weather on Cape Cod I started to take the Raleigh apart. I am calling it a 1952 (serial number no help) in honor of the owners name inscribed on the crank arm. I searched him on ancestry.com and he was born in 1952 which is consistent with the changes made to the bike in the 60's when he would have been about 12yo. There are a few nuts and bolts that are not period but over all everything looks right. Rookie mistake was buying the BikeHand tool kit. I didn't need a thing in it. I have just ordered two Park bottom bracket tools [can't get the BB off. I am concerned about a video I saw on removing the BB. I bent 2 pipe clamps (yes pipe clamps) trying to remove cotter. I finally used heat. Now the video shows a plastic race. If so it's probably NG now. I've tried three different paint strippers. The repaint came off easy. The factory paint not so much. Back to Maine today to winterize cabin back to bike next week.

Thanks for the update. What a nice project. You won't find one of those plastic bearing cages in this bike. That nonsense started in the 70s. You'll have 11 loose 1/4" bearings on each side. Those Park Tools are handy. Most of the time those bottom bracket adjustable cups are loose enough to just unthread by hand, but sometimes they're just a tighter fit and you need some leverage to back it out. When they're like that you have to be super careful when you thread it back in. The tight fit makes it hard to tell when you have the threads engaged correctly and it's very easy to cross thread these. The Park Tool is helpful there. I never remove the fixed cup unless I'm replacing it. Much easier to clean it with a rag and a stick. Since the cotters bent coming out I highly recommend buying new ones from Mark here:
Bicycle Crank Cotters

Scipunk 09-25-17 09:50 AM

@BigChief

Thanks for this also, see i didn't know that about the plastic bearing thing, so i only have to worry about my 73?

Also thanks for the cotter pin link, I'm sure ill need some as well.

I need to find someone local who has this much knowledge so i can learn hands on :)

Scipunk 09-25-17 09:53 AM


Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver (Post 19884494)
Nice to see that the lights are still on and hope everyone is well.

Have just started to get back on a bike that does not have a motor and think a certain old Raleigh Sports needs to get out for a fall ride.

You are the main reason i wanted a Raleigh Sport. Glad to see you back, Ty for everything :)

plympton 09-25-17 11:11 AM

Park tool came before I left. 21 bearings in BB and rust no grease. by the way 49 bearings total in the top tube. one bearing missing from both places? Is it just the grease that will hold them in place while I fit things back together or is there a trick to it?

nlerner 09-25-17 11:42 AM


Originally Posted by plympton (Post 19885757)
Park tool came before I left. 21 bearings in BB and rust no grease. by the way 49 bearings total in the top tube. one bearing missing from both places? Is it just the grease that will hold them in place while I fit things back together or is there a trick to it?

BB should be 11 bearings in each side, so I think you lost one! Headset is much more forgiving. My approach is to just about fill the cup and then remove one. And, yes, the grease will hold them in place while you install.

BigChief 09-25-17 11:56 AM

Yes, you fill the head set races full of bearings, but leave the space for the last one empty. I grease up the lower headset race on the fork, load the bearings on it, grease and load the pressed in cup race on the top of the frame and carefully slip the fork tube through and screw on the upper race while I hold the fork in place. Same sort of thing with the bottom bracket since I don't remove the fixed cup. I grease and load up the adjustable cup, get grease into the fixed cup with a stick, then place the 11 bearings on the drive side of the greased spindle and carefully pass it through then hold the drive side end while I screw the adjustable cup back in place.

Salubrious 09-25-17 11:59 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19884251)
I installed a pair of Tektro R559 dual pivots mostly for the cool factor. Would I use these on a regular light roadster? NO. The combination of the Raleigh lever and the long cable housing just doesn't have enough travel to operate the Tektro properly. I was very fussy truing the side to side on these rims. They're very close. I had the pads adjusted a mouse whisker away from the rims and still, too much of the lever travel was used up before full brake. Adding the cable stops to the top tube and eliminating 18" of housing did buy me more room than I thought. The rear brake is good now, but all and all, it is a lot of extra trouble to go through for only a marginal improvement. Unless you're a scorcher and don't want all that extra weight of steel calipers slowing you down.

You could always make up a brake cable that uses a modern cable housing couldn't you? They don't compress and have a lot less friction, and have the advantage of looking innocent enough on the bike.

BTW, recently I've been working on my 1935 Sports, which uses drum brakes front and rear. The rear cable was original but in pretty deplorable condition. I made up a replacement by obtaining a vintage NOS cable housing and inner cable, cutting it to the right length and then removed the cable end from the old original cable.

I did this by putting the cable in a vise and heating it up with a torch. The solder went molten and I removed the cable end. I then placed it on the new cable along with the associated hardware of the old cable. I then clamped the cable in the vise in such a way that I could tap the individual wires of the new cable apart and spread them so they wanted to hold the cable end on.

Then I heated up a tiny stainless bowl (again using the torch) that contained about a tablespoon of solder made of 95% antimony and 5% silver. You can obtain the solder at Graingers and the like. Once the sold was molten I dipped the cable end in it, held it there for about 10 seconds and removed it and allowed it to cool. No filing was needed; the solder filled the cable end quite well and the cable was ready to go after it cooled off.

This is how the original cable was made BTW. The trick really was sorting out what solder is used.

BigChief 09-25-17 12:42 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 19885877)
You could always make up a brake cable that uses a modern cable housing couldn't you? They don't compress and have a lot less friction, and have the advantage of looking innocent enough on the bike.

BTW, recently I've been working on my 1935 Sports, which uses drum brakes front and rear. The rear cable was original but in pretty deplorable condition. I made up a replacement by obtaining a vintage NOS cable housing and inner cable, cutting it to the right length and then removed the cable end from the old original cable.

I did this by putting the cable in a vise and heating it up with a torch. The solder went molten and I removed the cable end. I then placed it on the new cable along with the associated hardware of the old cable. I then clamped the cable in the vise in such a way that I could tap the individual wires of the new cable apart and spread them so they wanted to hold the cable end on.

Then I heated up a tiny stainless bowl (again using the torch) that contained about a tablespoon of solder made of 95% antimony and 5% silver. You can obtain the solder at Graingers and the like. Once the sold was molten I dipped the cable end in it, held it there for about 10 seconds and removed it and allowed it to cool. No filing was needed; the solder filled the cable end quite well and the cable was ready to go after it cooled off.

This is how the original cable was made BTW. The trick really was sorting out what solder is used.

I didn't think of that. I've even heard of compression-less housing, but don't know much about it. Another trick I forgot was the one about using a light coat of epoxy and fine sand on parts you don't want to slip.
One thing to remember about silver solder or silver braze is that the regular flux you use for 60/40 lead solder won't work. It won't stand up to the heat required. You need brazing flux


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