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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

rhm 03-30-11 01:45 PM

Cool. Good luck!

Amesja 03-30-11 02:06 PM

Ask for a complete junk bike. You might get lucky. Just about anything will work for you that came out of Nottingham. It really doesn't matter how ugly it is either because it is amazing how they will clean up with a little bit of Oxalic Acid in weak solution.

Look for the brands on this page here. Most of that stuff will work for you. If you can get it cheap/free and has a bunch of part you can at least get a Frankenbike running so you can ride it. Then you can replace stuff little by little with exactly correct parts later if you still want to make it perfect.

Schwinnsta 03-30-11 07:25 PM


Originally Posted by ahson (Post 12434042)
Is it 'not right' to put these kind of crankset on my Superbe? Notice those crank arms are rounded edges instead. I've been looking for the original crank for my bike long enough and I am finding alternatives. 46t and regular non-rounded edge crank is just hard to find! I search around ebay and ebay uk almost every single day. :p

http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/1/1/2...52988447_o.jpg

I think I have one (46T) that is in very nice condition BUT it is from a Royal Scot, Raleigh B line, and is not the Heron pattern. No R nuts either. One of the cranks shows a little tinge of rust but I think it would clean.

I would like to trade even for a rear rack in Bronze Green in similar condition. I am not sure if this is an even trade. I have not been following eBay of late except for the price of R nuts, which is obscene.

Email if you are interested in discussing this.

noglider 03-30-11 07:33 PM

I have just fallen completely in love with my 1960 or 1961 Rudge. I have it just about the way I want it. It has the whitewall Schwalbe tires and a Brooks B72 saddle. Everything is original except fo the tires, one spoke, one chainguard attachment bolt, and the rear sprocket. I went from an 18 to a 22.

I rode it last night 11 miles to Montclair State University to perform in a masters thesis composition recital. I was quite a spectacle wearing a suit and tie going through all those streets, and I got a lot of waves and hollers and astonished looks.

The trips there and back took a long time, but I enjoyed them a lot.

Today I took the bike to Manhattan wig me, on the train. I'm typing this message on the train back to NJ with he bike leaning up against me. Tonight in the train station, a young woman took a picture of me with her phone. Life is so funny!

4funbikes 03-30-11 07:46 PM

^ Excellent! I've got a Chrome '61 or so Rudge.
I should have it rolling soon.

noglider 03-30-11 11:33 PM

And surprisingly, the bike is incredible agile in traffic. I can make tight turns at high speeds. It brakes extremely well with Kool Stop brake shoes on the original calipers and rims. Shifting in traffic is great, because my first gear is now super low. Whenever I brake, I shift down. I pedal again when it's time to pedal, and in two strokes, I shift back up. I shift because I can. And it's nice.

It's slow, though, but I don't mind. I can do almost anything with this bike, including bang it around. It's very sturdy and reliable. It's dented and rusted, so I don't worry about ruining the way it looks. And it takes some effort to dent it further.

I might shine it up eventually, but not soon. I might upgrade the rims or tires or both one day, but I'm happy with them for now. The brakes are really amazing in the dry. I don't know what they'll be like in the wet.

I need a bell!

Sixty Fiver 03-30-11 11:55 PM

Tom...Just wipe the frame and exposed bits down with a little light oil... you will be amazed at the transformation and it provides a very good shield against moisture as well.

wahoonc 03-31-11 03:17 AM


Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver (Post 12436926)
Tom...Just wipe the frame and exposed bits down with a little light oil... you will be amazed at the transformation and it provides a very good shield against moisture as well.

+1

Only difference is I use the heavy weight transmission oil for the first go around, put it on heavy and let it sit overnight, then wipe off. Maintenance consists of wiping the bike down with an oily rag every now and again.

Aaron :)

Amesja 03-31-11 06:44 AM


Originally Posted by Schwinnsta (Post 12436029)
I think I have one (46T) that is in very nice condition BUT it is from a Royal Scot, Raleigh B line, and is not the Heron pattern. No R nuts either. One of the cranks shows a little tinge of rust but I think it would clean.

I would like to trade even for a rear rack in Bronze Green in similar condition. I am not sure if this is an even trade. I have not been following eBay of late except for the price of R nuts, which is obscene.

Email if you are interested in discussing this.

Be aware that the R-nuts only work with original raleigh-threaded cotters. New commercially-available cotters have a different threading that the old R-nuts are not compatible with. There is a guy out there machining the cotters with the Raleigh thread but they aren't as cheap as the ones you can buy at a bike shop.

This guy makes a set for $20 plus shipping. Don't forget to add that to the price of acquiring the nuts themselves if the set you have isn't OEM and/or serviceable condition.

If the OP isn't interested in that crankset I would be willing to trade you a set of R nuts for just the left-side e crank if it is 165mm.

ahson 03-31-11 08:56 AM


Originally Posted by Amesja (Post 12437457)
Be aware that the R-nuts only work with original raleigh-threaded cotters. New commercially-available cotters have a different threading that the old R-nuts are not compatible with. There is a guy out there machining the cotters with the Raleigh thread but they aren't as cheap as the ones you can buy at a bike shop.

This guy makes a set for $20 plus shipping. Don't forget to add that to the price of acquiring the nuts themselves if the set you have isn't OEM and/or serviceable condition.

If the OP isn't interested in that crankset I would be willing to trade you a set of R nuts for just the left-side e crank if it is 165mm.

Since I am looking for the heron Raleigh crank, so that's not exactly what I am looking for. I found you a great trading partner now. :)

HSean 03-31-11 03:34 PM

Are Raleigh partsd really a pickle to find? you should see how many of them things I always have, where abouts are you in ontario Ahson? I always have alot of Raleigh stuff.

ahson 03-31-11 03:37 PM


Originally Posted by HSean (Post 12439950)
Are Raleigh partsd really a pickle to find? you should see how many of them things I always have, where abouts are you in ontario Ahson? I always have alot of Raleigh stuff.

I won't say it's hard but it has to do with some luck and timing. I am here in T.O. but could travel if it's not way too far or pay for the shipping. Maybe you have one of those crank that do not use anymore?? :)

wahoonc 03-31-11 06:10 PM


Originally Posted by HSean (Post 12439950)
Are Raleigh partsd really a pickle to find? you should see how many of them things I always have, where abouts are you in ontario Ahson? I always have alot of Raleigh stuff.


Depends on where you are...

In my part of NC they are quite scarce, none of the current bike shops maintain any vintage stock, in fact one throws "old junk" out on a regular basis, however I act like a dumpster and catch most of it. :D

Aaron :)

Velognome 03-31-11 09:39 PM

In NYC/NJ they're pretty common, conditon varies quite a bit.

ahson 04-01-11 05:06 PM

After some cleaning on the bits, nuts, bolts, I decided to take a picture on some of the 'stuff' that I've removed from the bike so far. :p

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5069/...aaf19ac81c.jpgBits, Nuts, Cranks, Stem, Hub... by W....., on Flickr

Schwinnsta 04-01-11 07:34 PM

[QUOTE=Amesja;12437457If the OP isn't interested in that crankset I would be willing to trade you a set of R nuts for just the left-side e crank if it is 165mm.[/QUOTE]

I will check on the size tomorrow. I would like to keep the set together with the sprocket and axle. I now have slight surplus, 1 extra R nut, for crank so I am not looking for them any longer.

I would like to find an original rack, bronze green in good condition and could make up any difference in parts or cash. Would also consider a vintage Pletchor (sp?) rack.

ahson 04-01-11 07:55 PM


Originally Posted by Schwinnsta (Post 12445950)
I will check on the size tomorrow. I would like to keep the set together with the sprocket and axle. I now have slight surplus, 1 extra R nut, for crank so I am not looking for them any longer.

I would like to find an original rack, bronze green in good condition and could make up any difference in parts or cash. Would also consider a vintage Pletchor (sp?) rack.

Is that what you're looking for?

http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-70s-RALE...item4aa9dd3804

gna 04-01-11 08:00 PM


Originally Posted by ahson (Post 12445360)
After some cleaning on the bits, nuts, bolts, I decided to take a picture on some of the 'stuff' that I've removed from the bike so far. :p

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5069/...aaf19ac81c.jpgBits, Nuts, Cranks, Stem, Hub... by W....., on Flickr

Wow, looks nice. I will check the recycler for a Raleigh crank for you--no promises, as people have been buying lots of 3-speed parts lately....

ahson 04-01-11 08:06 PM


Originally Posted by gna (Post 12446042)
Wow, looks nice. I will check the recycler for a Raleigh crank for you--no promises, as people have been buying lots of 3-speed parts lately....

Thanks, I really appreciate it. It's a 46t btw. :)

Schwinnsta 04-02-11 07:26 PM


Originally Posted by ahson (Post 12446028)


Pretty much that or a Pletchor. I will likely try to snipe it. There looks to be another one perhaps in a little a better condition but not as many pics to tell.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

noglider 04-03-11 05:47 AM

I don't remember how those Raleigh racks behave, but I have tons of experience with Pletscher racks. They're durable and reliable, but they wobble a lot. I like the spring clip, but I won't use Pletscher racks any more because of the wobble. They end up adding effort to riding under load. I like the racks with the multiple struts, which are much stiffer.

I'm sure you can stiffen a rack with some wires and turnbuckles, but then it wouldn't be original. I don't know if that matters.

Hey, folks, my calves are sore, and I think it's from riding 22 miles very hard on my three speed on Tuesday. I wore dress shoes and used the original rubber block pedals. I normally use toe clips or cleats, so I had to use a different technique. Does this make sense?

Schwinnsta 04-03-11 06:36 AM

[QUOTE=noglider;12450353]I don't remember how those Raleigh racks behave, but I have tons of experience with Pletscher racks. They're durable and reliable, but they wobble a lot. I like the spring clip, but I won't use Pletscher racks any more because of the wobble. They end up adding effort to riding under load. I like the racks with the multiple struts, which are much stiffer.

I'm sure you can stiffen a rack with some wires and turnbuckles, but then it wouldn't be original. I don't know if that matters.QUOTE]

Thanks for the info. The Superbe rack looks to be small if one has the seat bag. Anyone want to chime in on rack recommendations for a Raleigh Sports? For now I may just go with a front basket?

Amesja 04-03-11 07:26 AM

I would think that an old aluminum pletcher rack that was wore and wobbly could be seriously firmed up by hard-soldering the pivots so they didn't move or have any slop in them. That would look much better than throwing wires on there to stabilize them under a load. Don't a lot of people just paint them black on most of the old bikes?

I Imagine the stamped steel ones would be similarly fixed if you didn't care about scorching the paint or originality as they could be re-spayed.

Just thinking aloud...

noglider 04-04-11 06:29 AM

I don't think by soldering or welding the joints. I think a rack just needs more than two legs.

Long ago, I saw someone solve the problem with that wire-and-turnbuckle solution, but I don't remember how it looked. You're probably right that it was ugly. Maybe it's best to go with something modern, as period-incorrect as it is. I mean, heck, I put modern brake shoes on old bikes, because that's one place I don't enjoy compromising.

Threespeeder 04-04-11 09:47 AM

Front rack
 
5 Attachment(s)
I have a suggestion that might work nicely for you. Although I like baskets up front I think a rack is better since the center of gravity tends to be lower plus a rack is more versatile. I have included a pic of my 73 Sports with the randonneur rack installed. It is a bit pricey at $160 or so, but the top part is removable so currently I need to take a pic of the rack base with the little wooden box cunningly attached with bungee cord!
At the moment the rack sits on the front fender so there is a bit of squeaking sometimes but that would be solved by a nice pair of Velo Orange fendersthat have a flatter configuration, the hammered aluminum ones. These fenders are not original any more than the rack but I think they would make the old boy look pretty nifty!
I also need to replace the brakes and front fork. Maybe the wheels too the newer alloy ones from Harris Cycle perhaps. By the way does anyone know the size of fender I should get from Velo Orange. They have a rather complex way of figuring it out on their site and there is not a specific size for the 26" Raleigh wheel. Maybe it's the same as the 700mm? http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=196388http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=196389http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=196390[QUOTE=Schwinnsta;12450450]

Originally Posted by noglider (Post 12450353)
I don't remember how those Raleigh racks behave, but I have tons of experience with Pletscher racks. They're durable and reliable, but they wobble a lot. I like the spring clip, but I won't use Pletscher racks any more because of the wobble. They end up adding effort to riding under load. I like the racks with the multiple struts, which are much stiffer.

I'm sure you can stiffen a rack with some wires and turnbuckles, but then it wouldn't be original. I don't know if that matters.QUOTE]

Thanks for the info. The Superbe rack looks to be small if one has the seat bag. Anyone want to chime in on rack recommendations for a Raleigh Sports? For now I may just go with a front basket?


noglider 04-04-11 12:27 PM

Why do you want to replace the brakes and fork? My Rudge's brakes are excellent, with Kool Stop shoes.

That rack is fantastic, but I still can't see spending that kind of money on a rack. Is there a cheaper way to get something similar?

JohnDThompson 04-04-11 12:59 PM


Originally Posted by Amesja (Post 12450561)
I would think that an old aluminum pletcher rack that was wore and wobbly could be seriously firmed up by hard-soldering the pivots so they didn't move or have any slop in them. That would look much better than throwing wires on there to stabilize them under a load. Don't a lot of people just paint them black on most of the old bikes?

I Imagine the stamped steel ones would be similarly fixed if you didn't care about scorching the paint or originality as they could be re-spayed.

Just thinking aloud...

I just had an old PresSteel rack powercoated and it turned out well:

http://www.os2.dhs.org/~john/pc-rack.jpg

Amesja 04-04-11 01:08 PM

That looks really nice!

David Newton 04-04-11 01:15 PM

Pletscher racks are aluminum, soldering won't stick.

The rivets can be peened over if they are very loose, but the rack wasn't meant for much load, so as long at the legs are there, they will carry the load they were designed for.

Cetma racks are around $100 for one "like" the Velo-orange porter rack, but it isn't as nice by a long shot.

Amesja 04-04-11 01:25 PM


Originally Posted by David Newton (Post 12456775)
Pletscher racks are aluminum, soldering won't stick.

The rivets can be peened over if they are very loose, but the rack wasn't meant for much load, so as long at the legs are there, they will carry the load they were designed for.
.

I'm sure if you wrapped the pivot joints tightly and neatly with #12 solid copper wire and used silver solder and a good acidic flux it would firm right up. It's still a 3-point connection to the frame of course so it is going to flex a bit -but it brazing and soldering isn't really rocket science. If that doesn't work then get medieval on that bad boy and bring home a tig welder from work and start stacking dimes on it until it is a bit more solid ;)

Paint to match...


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