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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

Dewey101 04-17-18 12:32 PM

1 Attachment(s)
I should have been clearer, I meant I asked Bailey to replace the rear sprocket with a larger cog. On the front wheel AFAIK Bailey kept the original front hub and replaced the rim and spokes. Here's a close up of the front wheel

desconhecido 04-17-18 01:58 PM

3 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by JaccoW (Post 20289448)
HarrisCyclery also has them but Sun's own website doesn't show them in 40H anymore.

From Santucci-cycles:

700c rims in 40hole seem to be getting rare. The Dyads, of course, are available and I presume they will be on into the future. I do find that there are 622mm Rhyno Lites with 40h in black with machined sidewall at Treefort and Niagara.

A couple years ago, I decided to expermiment with putting 700c 622mm bsd wheels on a Sports. I put the pictures of that bike in this thread within the last couple weeks. I had a 40h AW hub and a 36 Dyno for the front and the only rims I could find at the time with 40 and 36 hole were the Dyads, which I felt would have been unstylish for a Sports, and some black CR-18s from Bikewagon. At the time, Bikewagon had the only 40 hole 622mm CR18s I could find and now they appear to have none.

If it is true that Sun Ringle is no longer making the CR18 rims it is very disturbing news. These rims appear to be one of the true bargains in bicycle parts at $20 to $35 each, depending on where and when. Today, there are copious quantities of them available at Niagara, Treefort, Bikewagon, and many other places. Lots of 590mm polished rims in 32, 36, and 40h. If they stop making them it will eventually create a big CR-18 shaped hole in the hearts of us who like 650A wheels as, as far as I know, the Sun rims are the only decent rim in that size.

WTH, here's a couple more pictures of the Sports with the 700c wheels. Just put Raleigh branded stem (SR), bars(Sakai), and sidepull brakes(Dia-Compe) from a Raleigh salvage bike of some kind and wrapped the bars with cloth tape and tied off with twine. White Carlton hoods from a SC and a new bar end SA 3sp shifter which works extremely well.

restlessswind 04-17-18 02:31 PM

pardon me, but is this the proper cog to lower the gearing on a early 70's Raleigh 3 speed?
https://www.niagaracycle.com/categor...hed-18t-1-8-cp
I read a lot of generalizations, but I see a lot of specific types of cogs. I also want to know that it won't interfere with the chain guard.Thanks.

paulb_in_bkln 04-17-18 03:39 PM


Originally Posted by Dewey101 (Post 20290006)
Ah, I didn't say I went 34 years without a flat, just that I hadn't changed the tube on a Sturmey 3-speed rear wheel in 34 years - the last time would have been in 1984 when I was 11 and riding a beat up 1970's Puch picnic delivering Sunday newspapers in Leicester, England. I spent most of my paper-round money on tires, tubes, brakes and other bike maintenance, but it was a good bike to learn on I remember my older brother showing me how to open up the bottom bracket and grease the bearings. Still at the earliest opportunity I bought a used Peugeot racer and hadn't ridden a Sturmey 3-speed until three decades later, and on another continent, I pulled two Raleigh 3-speeds from my father-in-law's garage where they had sat unused for almost as long. Here they are just as I found them

I had a long three-speed layoff between adolescence and 2013 as well. Sometimes I think gee, all that time and I could have happily been riding around on one, but mostly I'm happy to fall into things when I'm ready for them.

clubman 04-17-18 03:39 PM


Originally Posted by restlessswind (Post 20290377)
pardon me, but is this the proper cog to lower the gearing on a early 70's Raleigh 3 speed?
https://www.niagaracycle.com/categor...hed-18t-1-8-cp
I read a lot of generalizations, but I see a lot of specific types of cogs. I also want to know that it won't interfere with the chain guard.Thanks.

It is but you can go with lower gearing up to a 22 tooth rear maybe even 24. The hockey stick chainguards are easily adjustable, the enclosed ones can be fussy but I think they will clear 22 teeth. Anyone?

gster 04-17-18 03:43 PM


Originally Posted by restlessswind (Post 20290377)
pardon me, but is this the proper cog to lower the gearing on a early 70's Raleigh 3 speed?
https://www.niagaracycle.com/categor...hed-18t-1-8-cp
I read a lot of generalizations, but I see a lot of specific types of cogs. I also want to know that it won't interfere with the chain guard.Thanks.

A 20T is a good size but you may want a 22T as well, to test both. Won't interfere with your chain guard but you most likely will need a new (longer) chain to accommodate the increased diameter of the cog.
Most bike stores have cogs in stock.

paulb_in_bkln 04-17-18 03:58 PM


Originally Posted by Dewey101 (Post 20290028)
but the diamond frame's rims were eaten away with rust so I had Bailey thread the original IGH into a replacement CR-18 aluminum rim, also replacing the front rim,

Mine is the step-thru frame, in the big (21"?) size, but black, and for the same reason I had to go the CR18 route. It's bothering, the notion that these rims might become unavailable.

desconhecido 04-17-18 03:58 PM


Originally Posted by restlessswind (Post 20290377)
pardon me, but is this the proper cog to lower the gearing on a early 70's Raleigh 3 speed?
https://www.niagaracycle.com/categor...hed-18t-1-8-cp
I read a lot of generalizations, but I see a lot of specific types of cogs. I also want to know that it won't interfere with the chain guard.Thanks.

If yours is a typical Raleigh 70's 3spd, you shouldn't have a problem with the chain hitting the guard. That's my guess and experience.

The cogs came either flat or dished and, IIRC, there are two spacer washers which you can use to adjust chainline.
Looks like all the sprockets that Niagara has are dished and yours probably is too, but if not, re-position the spacers to account.

Now to answer the question you asked: yes, the 20t sprocket you refer to will work on your hub.
The sprocket that you want is one with three "prongs". All the SA sprockets I see at Niagara with three "prongs" should work.

If you have a 48t front, 20t or 22t rear might be nice. Depends on your personal preference as to cadence, I think.
With a larger sprocket, you may need a longer chain.

paulb_in_bkln 04-17-18 04:04 PM


Originally Posted by Dewey101 (Post 20290028)
someone on this forum suggested it would be a good opportunity to learn how to build a Sturmey AW .

I finally did just that a few weeks ago and though it was messy and smelly (solvent) and I had to lock the cats in the bedroom for several hours which one of them just hated, it was not difficult and went without a hitch. The hub is slightly smoother now and ready for the next 50 years, I guess.

paulb_in_bkln 04-17-18 04:12 PM

When I'm actively looking for an inconsequential thing to be annoyed about I let myself get annoyed at the revival of the 650B tire size when there were a few hundred thousand British 3 speeds in regular use with 650A wheels and owners that would be happy for a selection of new rims and, more important, tires. If I'm missing something I would be happy to be straightened out.

browngw 04-17-18 05:00 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by restlessswind (Post 20290377)
pardon me, but is this the proper cog to lower the gearing on a early 70's Raleigh 3 speed?
https://www.niagaracycle.com/categor...hed-18t-1-8-cp
I read a lot of generalizations, but I see a lot of specific types of cogs. I also want to know that it won't interfere with the chain guard.Thanks.

An AW with an 18T is fairly high geared for myself. Up to 22T is good for DL1's and I have a 21T on my Robin Hood Sports. Two others have been changed from 18T to 20T. The 22T fits in the enclosed chaincase of the 1979 DL1.

BigChief 04-17-18 05:54 PM


Originally Posted by desconhecido (Post 20290535)
If yours is a typical Raleigh 70's 3spd, you shouldn't have a problem with the chain hitting the guard. That's my guess and experience.

The cogs came either flat or dished and, IIRC, there are two spacer washers which you can use to adjust chainline.
Looks like all the sprockets that Niagara has are dished and yours probably is too, but if not, re-position the spacers to account.

Now to answer the question you asked: yes, the 20t sprocket you refer to will work on your hub.
The sprocket that you want is one with three "prongs". All the SA sprockets I see at Niagara with three "prongs" should work.

If you have a 48t front, 20t or 22t rear might be nice. Depends on your personal preference as to cadence, I think.
With a larger sprocket, you may need a longer chain.

One thing I should mention. I strongly recommend a 1/8" thick cog and not a 3/32". The thinner cog will work but its thinner splines put more stress on the driver channels. Here's a 1/8" 22T
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sturmey-Arc...YAAOSwz7NaYpo0
I found 48x22 gearing too low for flat country. The 22T does work for me in hilly country. I'm happy with 46x22 on my bigger, heavier DL-1 though.

paulb_in_bkln 04-17-18 06:47 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20257246)
It is perfect. It has cycling history behind it too. In the early days of bicycling, it was a nickname given to bad boys who blasted around town on their bikes and caused a ruckus.

https://www.ibiscycles.com/images/up...25-1-72dpi.jpg

I wonder what The Scorcher march and two-step sounds like?

agmetal 04-17-18 09:23 PM


Originally Posted by desconhecido (Post 20290293)
700c rims in 40hole seem to be getting rare. The Dyads, of course, are available and I presume they will be on into the future. I do find that there are 622mm Rhyno Lites with 40h in black with machined sidewall at Treefort and Niagara.

A couple years ago, I decided to expermiment with putting 700c 622mm bsd wheels on a Sports. I put the pictures of that bike in this thread within the last couple weeks. I had a 40h AW hub and a 36 Dyno for the front and the only rims I could find at the time with 40 and 36 hole were the Dyads, which I felt would have been unstylish for a Sports, and some black CR-18s from Bikewagon. At the time, Bikewagon had the only 40 hole 622mm CR18s I could find and now they appear to have none.

If it is true that Sun Ringle is no longer making the CR18 rims it is very disturbing news. These rims appear to be one of the true bargains in bicycle parts at $20 to $35 each, depending on where and when. Today, there are copious quantities of them available at Niagara, Treefort, Bikewagon, and many other places. Lots of 590mm polished rims in 32, 36, and 40h. If they stop making them it will eventually create a big CR-18 shaped hole in the hearts of us who like 650A wheels as, as far as I know, the Sun rims are the only decent rim in that size.

WTH, here's a couple more pictures of the Sports with the 700c wheels. Just put Raleigh branded stem (SR), bars(Sakai), and sidepull brakes(Dia-Compe) from a Raleigh salvage bike of some kind and wrapped the bars with cloth tape and tied off with twine. White Carlton hoods from a SC and a new bar end SA 3sp shifter which works extremely well.

Do you have any close-up pictures of how your B&M headlight is attached to the heron bracket?

restlessswind 04-17-18 11:04 PM

A


Originally Posted by restlessswind (Post 20290377)
pardon me, but is this the proper cog to lower the gearing on a early 70's Raleigh 3 speed?
https://www.niagaracycle.com/categor...hed-18t-1-8-cp
I read a lot of generalizations, but I see a lot of specific types of cogs. I also want to know that it won't interfere with the chain guard.Thanks.

Thanks all for the input. Much appreciated. I ask as my wife has hip and spine issues. She tends to ride primary in 1st gear on a 17 or 18 tooth on flat and slightly elevated surface, and she's wishing for a lower gear. She rarely, if at all, ever goes into 3rd. I will try a 22, and see how she does.

JaccoW 04-18-18 02:04 AM


Originally Posted by desconhecido (Post 20290293)
WTH, here's a couple more pictures of the Sports with the 700c wheels. Just put Raleigh branded stem (SR), bars(Sakai), and sidepull brakes(Dia-Compe) from a Raleigh salvage bike of some kind and wrapped the bars with cloth tape and tied off with twine. White Carlton hoods from a SC and a new bar end SA 3sp shifter which works extremely well.

That is a fine looking bicycle. :love:

How well does the dynohub work with the modern LED B+M? Does it offer enough juice?
And is the rear light also connected?

I have similar plans for a red bike of mine. Though I'll probably use an B+M IQ-XS or convert a vintage light into a modern one:
http://i.imgur.com/XEB6LnPl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ATIgdeKl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/2LwtzGCl.jpg

JaccoW 04-18-18 03:27 AM


Originally Posted by Dewey101 (Post 20290028)
Here it is now, I should really get a wider axle to mount the Chariot hitch cup, and someone on this forum suggested it would be a good opportunity to learn how to build a Sturmey AW but I wouldn't know where to get the part and currently don't have the time to learn how to do a gearbox overhaul.

Check the exploded diagrams on SheldonBrown's website. Here is the parts list for the AW hub.

Google the Sales No. and plenty of websites will show up.
HMN388 for example is #22: Dome Nut New - SA logo.

Pretty much every single AW part is still available new. SJS Cycles in the UK probably has a lot of parts but also HollandBikeshop.com has every imaginable piece for sale.

English eBay (eBay.co.uk is also a good source for SA parts.

gster 04-18-18 05:47 AM


Originally Posted by restlessswind (Post 20291137)
A



Thanks all for the input. Much appreciated. I ask as my wife has hip and spine issues. She tends to ride primary in 1st gear on a 17 or 18 tooth on flat and slightly elevated surface, and she's wishing for a lower gear. She rarely, if at all, ever goes into 3rd. I will try a 22, and see how she does.

22T sounds right in your case.
Youtube cog swap video, quite simple.

johnnyspaghetti 04-18-18 07:50 AM

I am mostly a flatlander in Pigseye. That said, there are minor or major grades to deal with. I am up to 12 or so AW SA hubs which i can swear are the best. All the AW hubs have 18T except for 2. One had a 17T X 46 & 1 had a 19T X 44. I want 20T 21T & 22T to get it right for myself. I would say the premium decorated cranks are all 48T.

2nd gear is the gear you want right. I am 61yrs old and not getting younger. It does take a month or so to get the rhythm back in the legs. I have run out of 3rd gear down a hill but also not had enough 1st gear. I usually ride 10 to 12 mph with dog in 2nd gear.

paulb_in_bkln 04-18-18 08:09 AM

Looks like tomorrow I will collect the black '63 Rudge Sports I bought a week or so ago. I paid probably 20% more than I felt comfortable and am just hoping there's not any big problem with it, like damage to the frame or rims so rusted they're not even rideable. (The photos weren't great quality.) Although if that happened I'd probably have some recourse through eBay.

johnnyspaghetti 04-18-18 10:58 AM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20291515)
Looks like tomorrow I will collect the black '63 Rudge Sports I bought a week or so ago. I paid probably 20% more than I felt comfortable and am just hoping there's not any big problem with it, like damage to the frame or rims so rusted they're not even rideable. (The photos weren't great quality.) Although if that happened I'd probably have some recourse through eBay.

It's about is it worth it to you-no matter cost.

desconhecido 04-18-18 12:07 PM

2 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by agmetal (Post 20291051)
Do you have any close-up pictures of how your B&M headlight is attached to the heron bracket?

The mount was salvaged from a Sports with a bottle dyno and very poor condition headlight. I may have had to bend each side of the mount a bit to get it to match the width of the B&M housing. Need to clean up some detail, I see.

desconhecido 04-18-18 12:24 PM


Originally Posted by JaccoW (Post 20291196)
That is a fine looking bicycle. :love:

How well does the dynohub work with the modern LED B+M? Does it offer enough juice?
And is the rear light also connected?

At slow speeds it isn't very bright but when you get it up to about 5mph it's fine. At 10-14mph, which is what I typically shoot for on the flat streets of Houston, it's plenty bright. I was using a Shimano DH-3N72 with the same light and the Shimano was clearly superior at slow speeds, but I think that when you get up to speed the Dynohub will provide adequate current for the LEDs, which use less current than the incandescent that the hub was built for. The Dynohub, and the Shimano as well (as I understand) are AC producing devices and the LED lights, obviously, only work on half the cycle. So, light output can be increased greatly (maybe almost doubled, I don't know) by using a simple rectifier circuit.

There are two bikes here with SA Dynohubs and B&M lights and neither has a dyno powered tail light. The little Zefels and Cateyes are cheap and the batteries last a real long time. Next one I do will probably use an LED dyno intended tailight.

johnnyspaghetti 04-18-18 01:23 PM

I turn lights off and stay far away motor vehicles.

johnnyspaghetti 04-18-18 01:28 PM

I do clip on flashing red to dog collar

johnnyspaghetti 04-18-18 01:40 PM

I could say no could say yes or maybe. I can't even lie.

Salubrious 04-18-18 02:42 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 20290506)
It is but you can go with lower gearing up to a 22 tooth rear maybe even 24. The hockey stick chainguards are easily adjustable, the enclosed ones can be fussy but I think they will clear 22 teeth. Anyone?

Yup- even larger if you are careful, but IME better to go to a 44 up front instead.

restlessswind 04-18-18 03:14 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 20292509)
Yup- even larger if you are careful, but IME better to go to a 44 up front instead.

Changing front chainring/cranks sounds like an expensive and hard to find proposition. Anyway, my wife loves her Heron chainring.

johnnyspaghetti 04-18-18 03:40 PM

1 Attachment(s)
this is a 62

Attachment 607875

Salubrious 04-18-18 03:52 PM


Originally Posted by restlessswind (Post 20292576)
Changing front chainring/cranks sounds like an expensive and hard to find proposition. Anyway, my wife loves her Heron chainring.

If we are talking about an enclosed chainguard (Roadster) then the chainring is not visible. The larger you make the rear sprocket in a enclosed chainguard the harder it is to get it all back together! I've done 22T and it looks like a 23T would work but if you need that a 44 in front is easier.

But Raleigh did make 44T Heron chainrings; I just installed one on my girlfriend's Superbe.


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