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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

adventurepdx 06-05-20 01:20 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21514518)
A New Raleigh Tourist
What's wrong with this bike?
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...38706d72e4.jpg
Aesthetically, I find this bike unattractive...

If a bike serves its purpose--it gets people from place to place--there's nothing "wrong" with this bike. It's all an argument over aesthetics.

It may not be the most attractive bike. But I don't think it's unattractive, either. I get that this is a classic and vintage sub-forum, and most folks on this thread wish that a modern bike company would just simply make a bike that looks exactly like an old Raleigh Sports. But let's be realistic: That ain't going to happen. And especially not from a major/mainstream maker like Raleigh. If you want a modern three speed that approximates ye olde Raleigh Sports, I'd go for a Linus or Public.

As for tires, I like wider, fatter tires. Much as I love 26" x 1 3/8", you are limited to a width of 35 to 40 mm. I prefer wider. I love 26" x 2.0" or slightly fatter. I'll be building up a fatter-tire three speed at some point.

I know some folks (esp. in C&V) recoil from disc brakes the same way vampires recoil from garlic, but they work. And they definitely work scads better than what's stock on your 1965 Raleigh Sports, especially if you want braking power when it's wet out. I realize you can modernize brakes on old three-speeds, and I have: aluminum rims, Kool Stop pads, Tektro 559s. They work well, but definitely not as good as a disc brake bike. Plus, I ever have to clean dirty rims on a disc brake bike. So I can see why a modern company would spec them.

In a perfect world, I'd love to see everyone riding on a mid-century British three speed. And I love seeing people discover these bikes and refurbish them. But I'm also pragmatic, and appreciate that modern makers would even make a bike like this. If people ride it and derive pleasure from the experience, all the better. Maybe they'll consider a vintage three speed next?

vintagebicycle 06-05-20 05:54 PM


Originally Posted by carfreefamily (Post 21516648)
I ride my 1952 Raleigh regularly. Right now we're probably covering about 300 miles a month.

Unfortunately, I'm a worrier, and I worry about wearing down the chainring. I know the old steel chainrings are more durable than alloy chainrings, but I seem to need to replace those on my other bikes every 5 - 10 years or so, as the teeth wear. Unless I missed something when I was working on the bike, the chainring is integral to the crank right? Once it wears down, I have to find both a new chainring and a new crankarm. Is this something I should consider and ride my other bikes more often, or does the steel chainring really last indefinitely compared to an alloy chainring?

Thanks!

Paul Cooley
Santa Fe

As far as how long the older English bike sprockets lasted... Back in the 1970's, as a kid, I had a newpaper route in a fairly rural area. It was a mix of dirt roads and oil and stone pavement mostly. I started around 1976 or so using an old JC Higgins balloon tire bike, while the bike was holding up okay, the thing wasn't stable with the front basket loaded and twin saddle baskets in the rear, and the frame was way too small for me. A farmer I delivered to gave me an old BSA, which had a 24" frame, which already had two huge rear saddle baskets and a giant front basket on it. The bike had a 3 speed BSA rear hub and stainless steel rims. I was leery about piling all that weight at first on a lightweight bike but it sooned proved more than capable. I took the huge basket off the old JC Higgins and attached it with a hinge atop the already installed rear rack and twin saddle baskets. I could load all 230 papers in one load on that bike. (I soon learned the value of thorn resistant tubes when it came to weight on that bike too). I used that bike to cover roughly about 18 miles every day for just over 6 years. Over that period, the bike had a few nasty spills, one that sticks in my memory was in the snow, I had one customer with a long paved, coated asphalt driveway about 600ft long, the driveway was pretty steep with a hard turn near the point where it met the road. I had three of the four baskets packed full, and was heading out of that driveway downhill when the front end skidded and the bike went down on the left side, the bike slid down the drive, sort of flat spinning down the hill, it hit the wood retaining wall front wheel first pretty hard. I remember being relieved that it hadn't spilled out the 150 or so papers that were still in the baskets. I slid a few feet on my backside and hopped up. I grabbed the bike, hoping no one saw it, and continued on my way. After the fall, for the rest of the route I didn't have a rear brake, it had bent the lever in a way it was stuck up and over the bar jammed in place, it also popped the cable end off. The front fender was all out of whack, the left rear arm of the fender stay was pulled off the screw so I just bent it outward to keep it out of the spokes.
I finished the route, went home and figured I'd better fix the problems so I had it ready for the next day. I fiddled with the fender stay and fender and got them back where they belonged, I took the brake lever apart and bent it back in shape, as well as changing the rear brake cable. I checked the front wheel, found a spoke had popped, so i pulled the wheel, found a good used spoke off a parts bike and put that back together. Everything worked, so I called it a day and went to bed. It wasn't for a few months that I realized that it didn't look right, and a closer look made me realize I had bent the frame, the top tube and down tube had buckled when it hit that wall. It didn't feel the same after that but it did the job. I kept using that bike for another 2 or three years after that finally retiring it after finding a crack in the rear rim between three spokes, and another around the bottom bracket lug where the down tube entered the lug. It barely made it home the last day I used it, the downtube had all but separated from the lug. I had used some bailing twine a farmer gave me to bind the whole thing together so I could finish that day. The bike was old when I got it, and likely had done the same thing years before. I never really figured how many miles that bike had on it but it was 'well worn' to say the least. Over the course of 6 years, the bike broke two handle bars, 7 cables, went through 11 tires, 20+ tubes, eventually lost the lower parts of both fenders to rust, and I rebuilt the bottom bracket twice after wearing through the cups twice.
The headset was an issue, which was likely due to the damaged frame. The bike hung in my dads garage for years, but was gone when I moved back here 6 years ago.
With all that bike went through, the sprockets were never an issue, I never recalled having a problem with the sprockets showing any real wear. I did break a few chain links and seem to remember the chain had several master links added to hold it together but when your in your teens, a new chain just wasn't in the budget. I did make enough money delivering papers to buy me a new Raleigh Super Course in 1977, which I still own, and a used 57 Plymouth sedan for $200 in 1979 which I drove for a few years in school before finding a deal on a super clean old VW Beetle. Knowing what I know now, I likely would have fixed that old BSA, I seem to remember the hub being dated 9-51. When I first got it, it had old black handgrips that would turn your hands black if you touched them. I think I tried everything to not have to buy new grips, I even painted them but when the handle bars broke one day, the grips were non removable and got replaced with some used grips off of a Raleigh Sprite a buddy had who had converted it to drop bars. The bike always seemed prone to rust, for the whole time I was using it I was constantly sanding and touching up rusty spots that blistered through the paint or polishing rust speckles off the chrome bits. The bike had a creaking sound as it rolled from the day I started using it that I never found, it could have been the frame flexing or maybe there was already a crack starting from day one, but considering it carried both a daily load of newpapers and my 240 or so lbs for all those years over rough roads, dirt and through several crashes, I had no complaints at all. The thing was built like a tank.

Johno59 06-06-20 01:13 AM

Oldspokes wrote:
"New tires also don't fit the same. I fought with a set of reproduction chain treaded tires on an old BF Goodrich bike the other day, it took me a hour to get them to finally pop up and fit right on the rim. The tire was just slightly smaller than the original around the bead, so much so that it didn't want to seat properly, and even after the first ride, the tire slipped back down off the bead area. I ended up having to sand the bead rubber a bit and lube up the bead area to get the tire to finally seat right. I never had a set of tires fight me like that before."
Some of the Asian tire manufactures use some of the more obscure British tire specs that don't make any sense at all and never did. Back in the day it was well understood that 26.5 and 26 1/2 were not remotely similar! There is in fact a 1/4 inch(6mm) difference. 24 inch was a good 4 inches away from 2 feet wide. BITD if you'd ask for a Junior size tire everyone had some of those, the fact that were actually 20 inches wide (520mm) was obvious to everyone with half a brain!. Even the venerable 26 1 3/8 has 4 mm differences - " oh you want 26 inch for British sprint rims, why didn't you say so in the bloody first place?" (there was a a 1/6 inch difference in diameter !) In China, Vietnam, Malaysia whatever they make 100 of millions of tires that to them are standard to what they reverse engineered 70 years ago. The 'Hero' bike throughout Asia that was the workhorse of the Ho Chi Minh trail in the 50s and 60s was a copy of the British Phillips that had 28 inch tires ( they weren't even 27 inches wide?!!) and you don't want to go into the lunacy of specs on any of those 28 and 27 inch tires. Ask for the ISO number. All manufacturers have the ISO number embossed on the tire wall (the diameter measured from bead to bead across the tire) and this measurement is as accurate to a millimetre or so.

W.L.SOON 06-06-20 07:06 AM

Nice Rudge,but.....
 
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1950-s-Ru...edirect=mobile


Hi.
The bike looks nice,but Endrick rims with rod-operated brakes(rubber blocks)? Potentially dangerous,I think. Has any one tried something like this before? 🤔

Cheers and take care.

W.L.SOON,Malaysia

BigChief 06-06-20 08:25 AM


Originally Posted by W.L.SOON (Post 21518141)
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1950-s-Ru...edirect=mobile


Hi.
The bike looks nice,but Endrick rims with rod-operated brakes(rubber blocks)? Potentially dangerous,I think. Has any one tried something like this before? 🤔

Cheers and take care.

W.L.SOON,Malaysia

Yikes. Rod brakes on Endrick rims seems like a very bad idea to me. I wouldn't consider it rideable. Seems like a lot of money for a repainted mid 50s Rudge with the wrong wheels, a Hercules crank and an incorrect 60s swept wing chainguard.

dirtman 06-06-20 11:26 PM

Another bike from the junkman, a smaller frame Robin Hood.
It had a GB stem and drop bars when I first got it, I pulled them off since they were loose.
I think this bike has the wheels that belong on the Raleigh Sports I posted about earlier here, and the Chrome fenders and Endrick wheels likely came from this bike.
There's more stuff but I didn't start to dig through it yet.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...bea08aa2c7.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...603e4e263c.jpg

gster 06-07-20 07:14 AM


Originally Posted by dirtman (Post 21519616)
Another bike from the junkman, a smaller frame Robin Hood.
It had a GB stem and drop bars when I first got it, I pulled them off since they were loose.
I think this bike has the wheels that belong on the Raleigh Sports I posted about earlier here, and the Chrome fenders and Endrick wheels likely came from this bike.
There's more stuff but I didn't start to dig through it yet.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...bea08aa2c7.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...603e4e263c.jpg

Christmas came early this year.

ironchefchris 06-07-20 02:28 PM

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5ba6e3d1da.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f608bd86e9.jpg
Just back from a quick 30min ride. Rode great. Its been in the garage for a year but thanks to this stupid virus ive been able to work and ride it alot lately. 1976 Raleigh Sports. I may have to invert the bars though...i rode drop bars for a longtime and it just suits me better, I figure that's a nice compromise.

dirtman 06-07-20 07:35 PM

Here's a few more from the lot I got last night, a 1974 Raleigh LTD III with a 24" frame, A 1966 Robin Hood Sports also 24", and an AMF Hercules from 1971.
These three are the best of the lot yet, the saddles are rough, but the rest of the bikes are basically functional with some air in the tires. They're extremely dirty from sitting in some garage for decades but they're not rusty. The Robin Hood has Lucas Odometer that reads 170 miles, and it works.
The LTD has Raleigh branded tires, the front reads Raleigh Record, the rear reads Raleigh but appears to be some type of slick, the tire is smooth with a slight raised center. The Hercules has Dunlop tires, the Robin Hood has two older Carlisle tires. The Robin Hood rides nice, the Hercules is great too but I really like the taller frames.
The LTD needs some adjustments, the brakes are rubbing, the fenders are loose, etc. It does shift and pedal just fine though. The Robin Hood is really nice riding bike. All three have perfect wheels.The Robin Hood's chainguard is a bit dented up but I can fix that.
There's at least one more Raleigh in the lot that I haven't taken pics of yet, an early 50's ladies model but its pretty rough and likely just a parts bike. Along with these bikes, the same guy also brought me 9 more barrels of parts they cleaned out of the same place.


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...cce55c854d.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ea25d4f457.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ee3609ff41.jpg

Iron Horse 06-07-20 08:00 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21514510)
I'd say that was a great deal!
Chrome fenders could be from a Canadian spec'd Glider or Supercycle.
Perhaps a Scorcher?


Originally Posted by ironchefchris (Post 21520490)
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5ba6e3d1da.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f608bd86e9.jpg
Just back from a quick 30min ride. Rode great. Its been in the garage for a year but thanks to this stupid virus ive been able to work and ride it alot lately. 1976 Raleigh Sports. I may have to invert the bars though...i rode drop bars for a longtime and it just suits me better, I figure that's a nice compromise.

I'm afraid I would be extremely leary of putting any weight on that rear rack. Your fender stay shifts, and there might be a mess.

56ford 06-07-20 08:04 PM

Saw this on my local Craigslist. It’s a Norman. No price but has the goodies on it and the paint looks pretty good. Any possibility it’s from the 50’s based on paint style. https://stlouis.craigslist.org/bik/d...122987524.html

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...666f993e4.jpeg

clubman 06-07-20 09:06 PM

@56ford. Late 50's, early 60's sure. Those spiral cable wraps were popular in the 50's. Chrome mudguards suggest closer to '60's. I'm sure the rear hub has a date on it to nail it down.

56ford 06-07-20 09:16 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 21521191)
@56ford. Late 50's, early 60's sure. Those spiral cable wraps were popular in the 50's. Chrome mudguards suggest closer to '60's. I'm sure the rear hub has a date on it to nail it down.

My 53 Hercules has the same wrappings and chrome fenders. I donít know if the fenders are original on mine but everything else seems to be, even the seat. Someone once suggested many bikes sent to the US had the chrome as an option.

clubman 06-08-20 06:52 AM

It's certainly possible that it's earlier. A Google image search of '1950s Hercules bike' reveal mostly painted fenders with chrome usually appearing toward 1960. The problem with Hercs is getting the year correct when when many had undated Hercules 3 speed hubs. No matter, nice bikes regardless of year.

56ford 06-08-20 07:37 AM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 21521563)
It's certainly possible that it's earlier. A Google image search of '1950s Hercules bike' reveal mostly painted fenders with chrome usually appearing toward 1960. The problem with Hercs is getting the year correct when when many had undated Hercules 3 speed hubs. No matter, nice bikes regardless of year.

I have two Hercules. The first one I got had a bunch of replacement parts on it with a Japanese replacement rear hub. With no special attributes to give me a year other than the badge saying Birmingham itís likely late 50ís. My Ď53 has a 1953 dated Hercules hub and has a what I have learned is a one year only paint scheme that was for the celebration of the coronation of Queen Elizabeth II. Of course a lot can happen to a bike over 60+ years.

ironchefchris 06-08-20 12:11 PM


Originally Posted by Iron Horse (Post 21521086)
I'm afraid I would be extremely leary of putting any weight on that rear rack. Your fender stay shifts, and there might be a mess.

nah, it can handle me pressing down on it hard so its fine with a full cooler or whatever. There's not enough play for it to sag to the tire

bluesteak 06-08-20 07:57 PM

54 Norman
 

Originally Posted by 56ford (Post 21521093)
Saw this on my local Craigslist. Itís a Norman. No price but has the goodies on it and the paint looks pretty good. Any possibility itís from the 50ís based on paint style. https://stlouis.craigslist.org/bik/d...122987524.html

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...666f993e4.jpeg

Here are some photos of my 54 Norman.

The decals are the same. Mine has knights stamped on the chainring. Also the rear wheel is built with 40 spokes 3 cross.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3b72253f0b.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e9a3312cbe.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c94e2518e0.jpg

bikerosity57 06-09-20 07:08 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 21493248)
Wow! This is a pre-Raleigh Rudge. Late 30s I figure. I'll poke through some catalogs and post what I can find. Great find!!!

Oh my gosh! Female frame or not thatís a cool pick up. Very rare, very unusual. Try your best to keep it all original.

bikerosity57 06-09-20 07:16 AM


Originally Posted by capnjonny (Post 21486944)
How about a Rudge Fast Sport?

I was dropping off a couple bikes at the Bike Exchange today after doing at home Covid resto and was snooping around to see if there was anything interesting in the pile that I hadn't worked on.

There in the front was this ladies model Rudge Fast Sport that someone had just donated to us. I have never seen one of these before and can't wait to tear into it. The most unusual feature is the brake set up. They are a type of cantilever design with a difference. When you squeeze the brake lever instead of pulling up on a straddle cable forcing the shoes into the rim, on this design the brake cable forces the rigid v shaped straddle to push down on the canti arm and push the pad into the rim. while this is interesting it seems totally unable to create much stopping power. another interesting item is the seat , which is made by a company named Mesinger in Bethel Connecticut. It has a solid steel seat pan with springs in back. I have never seen that either.

The number stamped on the bottom bracket is A44 2050 so if anyone is rudge knowledgable what year is that? Also, the bike hes wing nuts on the axles. Don't know if that is original. They look new.

I am going to clean everything and probably do a repaint , masking of the decals. I don't know what to do about the brakes though. The shoes are not something I have seen before and the bike won't stop without something being done about that. hopefully I can get kool stops to work . https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8d2bf9e017.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c2b538d7f8.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...367b76a7df.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f87792d331.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3e1329289e.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...517ee2f811.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5db3accbfb.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f30c51bbbe.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8708279edd.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7dc083ed67.jpg

Oh, Almost forgot, I just finished a rather large Ladies Raleigh sport. This one was in silver metalic and sported Weinman side pull brakes. Nothing else special about it. I clear coated the fenders and chain guard and replaced the brake cables and covers and re greased the front axle. Everything else was in good condition including the steel wheels. I had a set of Cool Stop brake pads in my stash so I gave the lady a new pair of shoes. Girls usually like that. added new reflectors and she is ready for her debut. All you tall ladies out there, this bike is for you.

Donít repaint it! Get a can of gloss parade black shoe polish and rub it down real good. Then buff it. Itíll surprise you and keep the finish original. Itís too rare a bike to molest.

BigChief 06-09-20 02:06 PM


Originally Posted by bikerosity57 (Post 21523648)
Donít repaint it! Get a can of gloss parade black shoe polish and rub it down real good. Then buff it. Itíll surprise you and keep the finish original. Itís too rare a bike to molest.

Repaint??? That would be terrible. This is one of the most original pre war roadsters I've seen in a long time and the finish is in excellent original condition for it's age. Even the painted rim centers are still intact. All the transfers look good even the one on the rear mudguard. The original cloth covered cable housings survive too. Only the seat and handlebar grips are later additions. I don't think this bike had a chainguard originally so it's almost complete. A rare bike and a wonderful find. And...a Rudge!

clubman 06-09-20 02:10 PM

Wow, this is special. And look, a 2 bolt detachable stem plate. What's old is new again.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9d405fe67c.jpg

oldveloman 06-12-20 01:45 PM

Hi all,

I was planning to order a set of decals for my 1953 Raleigh Sports that I am restoring, but I have this little question:
All decals like “The All Steel Bicycle" ans “Raleigh Sports" are the golden ones, but on the forks it has the small silver heron decals.
Shhouldn' t all the decals be either gold or silver? Maybe mine has got a replacement front fork?

Below at left the silver version, at right a golden one from another bike
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...85f191bd05.jpg

Peter

gster 06-13-20 08:50 AM

For sale here in Toronto
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d158b5913f.jpg
Seller is asking $1700.00.....

jackbombay 06-13-20 08:58 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21531642)
For sale here in Toronto
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d158b5913f.jpg
Seller is asking $1700.00.....

With the fenders even! $1500?

EDIT/// I didn't see your text below the pic, my guess was a bit low!

clubman 06-13-20 07:00 PM

Missing the shifter knob!

thumpism 06-14-20 06:37 AM

Whole lotta springin' goin' on...

Evidently, this is available on eBay UK right now.

https://advrider.com/f/attachments/fs-1-jpg.2365951/

rhenning 06-14-20 09:27 AM

That bike has "death trap" written all over it. Roger

dweenk 06-14-20 12:33 PM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 21532946)
Whole lotta springin' goin' on...

Evidently, this is available on eBay UK right now.

https://advrider.com/f/attachments/fs-1-jpg.2365951/

OMG:wtf:

cszipper 06-14-20 06:55 PM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 21532946)
Whole lotta springin' goin' on...

Evidently, this is available on eBay UK right now.

I admire the builder's ambition, and would be keen to ride it if the opportunity presented itself. It must be bouncy. The shift cable runs unhoused to hub, so I bet that it shifts itself if you go over a big bump. Also, check out the the lower head bearing, there are two cups.

-Carl

thumpism 06-14-20 07:23 PM


Originally Posted by cszipper (Post 21533994)
The shift cable runs unhoused to hub, so I bet that it shifts itself if you go over a big bump.

Most 3-speeds have no cable housing after the pulley on the seat tube. If the arc of the rear axle's swing is concentric then the cable tension won't change and those shifts won't happen. Maybe.


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