Bike Forums

Bike Forums (https://www.bikeforums.net/forum.php)
-   Classic & Vintage (https://www.bikeforums.net/forumdisplay.php?f=181)
-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

Sedgemop 08-31-23 10:34 PM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 23000877)
At $100, the Clubman project is a good deal. At $200, it depends on what you have there. If you have good original wheels too, $200 is pretty good for that.

The fenders are missing, as are apparently the oddball fender mounting screws for those front mounts. Looks like the back screws might be there. It will need a decent saddle. The crank set looks right. The wheels are a question mark - big ticket item if you don't have them, but if they're original it's a huge plus. Bars and stem are a preference thing, but it would have originally had drop bars. If the seat post is hiduminium, another plus. It has the headset/fork clip. The frame should be checked for kickstand damage. It looks like regular axle nuts rather than the more desirable (but less practical) wingnuts.

Worth going and looking at it for $200, just be sure you add to the cost any parts you need to source.

The front fender is from a Scwhinn Traveler - good piece but goes on another bike.

If I make a run at this one, I'll definitely offer $100. I suspect it'll sit for a long time at $200. If I do go look at this one, I may seek your advice first. You mind a few questions?

SirMike1983 09-01-23 07:39 AM


Originally Posted by Sedgemop (Post 23001789)
If I make a run at this one, I'll definitely offer $100. I suspect it'll sit for a long time at $200. If I do go look at this one, I may seek your advice first. You mind a few questions?

That's fine, I'll try to answer them as best I can. It has been for sale for awhile so you are probably right that you can do a little better than $200 for it.

Sedgemop 09-01-23 07:48 AM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 23001993)
That's fine, I'll try to answer them as best I can. It has been for sale for awhile so you are probably right that you can do a little better than $200 for it.

Thanks, SirMike. Your knowledge and taste in these classic 3 speeds is appreciated.

bluesteak 09-01-23 04:29 PM

S5 hub dog ring
 
I am working on the s5 hubs I bought on eBay.
I have been opening them up and pulling out the internals intact.

The second hub I opened had the locknut that holds the dog ring(has 138) was loose and the tabs unbent on the lock washer. Are there specs for the proper positioning of the dog ring?

1989Pre 09-02-23 07:10 AM

I know this Iverson isn't British, but I just wanted to ask what kind of shifter is on this bike. This is the only photo I have of it, but have never seen this type of set-up before:
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ceb6c766f2.jpg

thumpism 09-02-23 07:14 AM

Twist grip, used primarily by Shimano but also by Sturmey and, presumably, others.

SirMike1983 09-02-23 08:21 PM

That's a Shimano twist grip running to a 333 hub.

dedhed 09-02-23 08:50 PM


Originally Posted by bluesteak (Post 23002531)
I am working on the s5 hubs I bought on eBay.
I have been opening them up and pulling out the internals intact.

The second hub I opened had the locknut that holds the dog ring(has 138) was loose and the tabs unbent on the lock washer. Are there specs for the proper positioning of the dog ring?

​​​​​​

​​​​​​

oldspokes 09-03-23 01:43 PM


Originally Posted by bluesteak (Post 23002531)
I am working on the s5 hubs I bought on eBay.
I have been opening them up and pulling out the internals intact.

The second hub I opened had the locknut that holds the dog ring(has 138) was loose and the tabs unbent on the lock washer. Are there specs for the proper positioning of the dog ring?


I don't see any specs stated in any of the paperwork from the old S5. Its been a while since I had one apart but I don't remember it being any big deal. I'd put the axle in an axle vise and snug up the nut and fold up the tabs. Sometimes if you flip the lock washer you can get a fresh spot to bend up. I do remember finding them loose, but not unlocked, as if they were only finger tight and then the tabs were locked but most were at least a bit tight and locked in place. I do remember a few that didn't have the tabs locked, and they apparently were that way for a long time. I'm not sure if I have any of those here to compare to in my piles of parts but if I get the chance I'll take a look when I get home.

bluesteak 09-03-23 01:46 PM

S5
 
Thanks for the videos. I had already watched the s5 video, and it seems like he stopped, and didn’t take apart the sun gear assembly.

I took a closer look after I posted, and actually took the dog ring off. Once I had it apart I could see that it locks the large sun gear when the rod is retracted. It has a squarish center hole that needs to fit snugly over four “ears” on the axle. Once I forced it down over the ears it was locked to the axle and appears to be in the right position.

oldspokes 09-05-23 08:47 PM

Sports in NJ

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...74208220231539

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c5258608c9.jpg

gna 09-06-23 12:59 AM


Originally Posted by Ged117 (Post 23001223)
Hi fellows, I'm working on a square taper conversion for my '60s Triumph three-speed. Trying to find the right sized 5 or 7 code spindle to use with the original cups so I can install my square taper aluminum crankset (I have a cool steel chainwheel which will look the part) - my local co-op is unfortunately short on 5 or 7 code spindles The one I did find was far too long and the chainline was unworkable. I think its the 5N or a 70mm Italian spindle I am looking for.

Anyone try this before? cudak888 I know you've done this or attempted with a single chainring crank - any insights?

Cheers

I believe JohnDThompson has done this.

Unca_Sam 09-06-23 06:32 AM


Originally Posted by gna (Post 23006975)
I believe JohnDThompson has done this.

You said the spindle you found was way too long; did you test fit? That test fit would give you the symmetrical spindle length range, which you could use to get a code from Sheldon Brown's table. Cranks are converging on standard BB sizes if they're square taper, but you won't really know what you need until you try it with a known length for used stuff.
I'm doing my own square taper conversion, but on a Supercourse. The Sugino Maxy crank I used first needed 122.5 BB for a nearly perfect 42mm chainline, but the Specialites TA Alize crank needs a 103mm spindle and I'm still possibly going to be 1-2 mm away from 42mm. I had to use trial and error on the Sugino Crank but the TA crank recommends the bottom bracket needed for double and single chainring applications.

gna 09-06-23 12:06 PM


Originally Posted by Unca_Sam (Post 23007082)
You said the spindle you found was way too long; did you test fit? That test fit would give you the symmetrical spindle length range, which you could use to get a code from Sheldon Brown's table. Cranks are converging on standard BB sizes if they're square taper, but you won't really know what you need until you try it with a known length for used stuff.
I'm doing my own square taper conversion, but on a Supercourse. The Sugino Maxy crank I used first needed 122.5 BB for a nearly perfect 42mm chainline, but the Specialites TA Alize crank needs a 103mm spindle and I'm still possibly going to be 1-2 mm away from 42mm. I had to use trial and error on the Sugino Crank but the TA crank recommends the bottom bracket needed for double and single chainring applications.

We might be discussing two different spindles here. My Raleigh Wyoming touring bike needed a new spindle, but for a three speed, a think one needs a 7 spindle.

Unca_Sam 09-06-23 02:38 PM


Originally Posted by gna (Post 23007489)
We might be discussing two different spindles here. My Raleigh Wyoming touring bike needed a new spindle, but for a three speed, a think one needs a 7 spindle.


Originally Posted by Ged117 (Post 23001223)
Hi fellows, I'm working on a square taper conversion for my '60s Triumph three-speed. Trying to find the right sized 5 or 7 code spindle to use with the original cups so I can install my square taper aluminum crankset (I have a cool steel chainwheel which will look the part) - my local co-op is unfortunately short on 5 or 7 code spindles The one I did find was far too long and the chainline was unworkable. I think its the 5N or a 70mm Italian spindle I am looking for.

Anyone try this before? cudak888 I know you've done this or attempted with a single chainring crank - any insights?

Cheers


Originally Posted by gna (Post 23006975)
I believe JohnDThompson has done this.


Originally Posted by Unca_Sam (Post 23007082)
You said the spindle you found was way too long; did you test fit? That test fit would give you the symmetrical spindle length range, which you could use to get a code from Sheldon Brown's table. Cranks are converging on standard BB sizes if they're square taper, but you won't really know what you need until you try it with a known length for used stuff.
I'm doing my own square taper conversion, but on a Supercourse. The Sugino Maxy crank I used first needed 122.5 BB for a nearly perfect 42mm chainline, but the Specialites TA Alize crank needs a 103mm spindle and I'm still possibly going to be 1-2 mm away from 42mm. I had to use trial and error on the Sugino Crank but the TA crank recommends the bottom bracket needed for double and single chainring applications.

​​​​​Sorry, ​gna I'm quoting the wrong person since Ged117 's post was asking for help. I guess I was trying to quote 'through' you?

I remember that our patron saint Sheldon Brown addressed a similar issue here. In a nutshell, the advice is to find a JIS 5 code spindle designating it as for an Italian bottom bracket and use 6mm balls in the bearings rather than 1/4 inch. This method, IMO, trades time for cash; you will spend time hunting for a unicorn spindle in exchange for not having to shell out for a Phil Wood BB and Raleigh-threaded mounting rings.
Since you're considering this over just buying the appropriate cartridge BB from Shimano/IRD/etc, I'm going to assume that you've confirmed that you have a Raleigh BB and your BB shell is 71mm wide. If you haven't confirmed that the threading is proprietary, please do so; you might end up saving yourself several headaches. All that said, if Phil and (out of production :eek:) Velo-Orange aren't in the budget, you might want to consider a repair bottom bracket that ignores the threading. I took some time and couldn't find the answer to whether the sunlite repair BB designed for 68mm shells will stretch far enough to do a Raleigh BB, or if there are any designed around the italian standard.

Sheldon's last advice was to face the BB to 68mm and rethread the bottom bracket to the BSC threading. With a threadless repair bottom bracket maybe you could get away with just facing the BB shell to 68mm.

Ged117 09-06-23 03:14 PM


Originally Posted by Unca_Sam (Post 23007082)
You said the spindle you found was way too long; did you test fit? That test fit would give you the symmetrical spindle length range, which you could use to get a code from Sheldon Brown's table. Cranks are converging on standard BB sizes if they're square taper, but you won't really know what you need until you try it with a known length for used stuff.
I'm doing my own square taper conversion, but on a Supercourse. The Sugino Maxy crank I used first needed 122.5 BB for a nearly perfect 42mm chainline, but the Specialites TA Alize crank needs a 103mm spindle and I'm still possibly going to be 1-2 mm away from 42mm. I had to use trial and error on the Sugino Crank but the TA crank recommends the bottom bracket needed for double and single chainring applications.


Originally Posted by Unca_Sam (Post 23007661)
​​​​​Sorry, ​gna I'm quoting the wrong person since Ged117 's post was asking for help. I guess I was trying to quote 'through' you?

I remember that our patron saint Sheldon Brown addressed a similar issue here. In a nutshell, the advice is to find a JIS 5 code spindle designating it as for an Italian bottom bracket and use 6mm balls in the bearings rather than 1/4 inch. This method, IMO, trades time for cash; you will spend time hunting for a unicorn spindle in exchange for not having to shell out for a Phil Wood BB and Raleigh-threaded mounting rings.
Since you're considering this over just buying the appropriate cartridge BB from Shimano/IRD/etc, I'm going to assume that you've confirmed that you have a Raleigh BB and your BB shell is 71mm wide. If you haven't confirmed that the threading is proprietary, please do so; you might end up saving yourself several headaches. All that said, if Phil and (out of production :eek:) Velo-Orange aren't in the budget, you might want to consider a repair bottom bracket that ignores the threading. I took some time and couldn't find the answer to whether the sunlite repair BB designed for 68mm shells will stretch far enough to do a Raleigh BB, or if there are any designed around the italian standard.

Sheldon's last advice was to face the BB to 68mm and rethread the bottom bracket to the BSC threading. With a threadless repair bottom bracket maybe you could get away with just facing the BB shell to 68mm.

Thank you sir for this explanation, much appreciated. The bike is one of the Sports clones - a Triumph three speed from the '60s. It has a 71mm shell. The VO threadless cartridge was my first idea - I used one successfully for a fixed gear Peugeot a few years ago. As you say its unobtanium now. I found a JIS Italian standard 5 spindle that might work - next thing is to find 6mm bearings. I'll update in this thread.

thumpism 09-06-23 11:49 PM

Pretty little Hercules for $150 in NY.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...24949403084633

https://scontent.fric1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...fg&oe=64FD6296

PhilFo 09-07-23 04:46 AM

Last night I just took ownership of a ~1951 Rudge Aero Clubman. I can't wait to get this up and running. Come to think of it, would it fit into the English 3 speed thread? Many were delivered with 4-speed hubs, some with 3-speed, and many with single-speed flip flop hubs. Anyway, it's a lovely old thing which I'll get to scrubbing with a toothbrush and some mild detergent tonight after work, then more this coming weekend. I'll follow up with photos ASAP.

SirMike1983 09-07-23 06:56 AM

The No.125 '51 Aero Club was the Rudge brand's version of the 22 inch frame No. 25 Raleigh Clubman. It had the thin-type seat and chain stays. Reynolds 531 plain gauge tubing frame and fork, head tube was at 73 deg, seat tube at 71 deg. Fluted cranks with removable 3-bolt chain ring. It also shared the clip-style head set with option of having the no-bolt, smooth top stem. 1951 was after the move to the larger, 27 x 1 1/4 stainless rims from the old 26 inch club size. Fenders would have been white celluloid. Chrome socks front and back. Saddle would be the B17N. Any of the Sturmey Archer hub gears could be fitted, with the medium-ratio gears being a popular option for sport riding. Weight was quoted, without the optional saddle bag, at 25.5 pounds.

markk900 09-07-23 07:01 AM


Originally Posted by PhilFo (Post 23008147)
I'll follow up with photos ASAP.

Looking forward to the pictures…. Take lots- don’t be shy! 😎

JohnDThompson 09-07-23 09:15 AM


Originally Posted by gna (Post 23006975)
I believe JohnDThompson has done this.

Yes, I have, for my daughter's bike. I don't recall what spindle I used, and don't have the bike handy. Old picture:
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1fde191d67.jpg

gna 09-07-23 09:32 AM


Originally Posted by JohnDThompson (Post 23008361)
Yes, I have, for my daughter's bike. I don't recall what spindle I used, and don't have the bike handy. Old picture:
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1fde191d67.jpg

If I remember correctly, you used standard 1/4" balls in the original cups with a "7" spindle.

Marco99 09-07-23 11:06 AM

Tick..Tick..Tick and Oil in the AW Hub
 
I have been riding my overhauled '79 AW hub for 4 months and really liking it. Just last week I noticed a faint tick tick tick while pedaling. I believe the tick is normal and wondering if I had too much oil in the hub from the outset.
My hub has a lovely oily and dusty film all over it. I have been using a 75W 90 synthetic gear oil in the hub.
So today I added a few drops of oil in the hub and the tick is gone.
Too much oil?

Johno59 09-07-23 11:36 AM

A SA hub requires a teaspoon of any motor oil once a year. Too much will soon spill out and cover everything in crud.

SirMike1983 09-07-23 11:59 AM

The common AW should tick when pedaled in Normal (2d) and High (3d) gears. The sound comes from the low gear pawls being overtaken by the rest of the hub. When in Low (1st) the low gear pawls engage and are not overtaken, so they don't tick when pedaled in 1st.

The "tick" should be noticeable when riding, but should not have a tinny or metallic sound. The tick will become less pronounced if you oil the hub. If you can't hear the ticking at all, but the pawls still engage, it's a sign of over-oiling or grease getting into the low gear pawls.

The ticking will gradually return with use as the excess oil works its way out. A rag may be needed to prevent excess oil making a mess as it leaves the hub. Ride the hub but don't add oil for now.

If the pawls will not engage, the hub should be cleaned, and potentially opened and serviced. Lack of engagement is a sign of a contaminated hub or weak pawl springs.

Johno59 09-07-23 12:15 PM

If you have already screwed the pooch i.e. foolishly put grease in it, too heavy oil or water based crud there is a hack. Get a can of WD-40 (relax,relax hear me out!) Squirt the WD -40 into the filler hole until it begins to spew out every which way. Spin, grind, rant for a good ten minutes. When everything is freed up lie the bike/wheel down overnight so the WD-40 drains out. Get a tablespoon of engine oil and pour into filler hole. Good to go!

Salubrious 09-07-23 01:19 PM


Originally Posted by Marco99 (Post 23008499)
I have been riding my overhauled '79 AW hub for 4 months and really liking it. Just last week I noticed a faint tick tick tick while pedaling. I believe the tick is normal and wondering if I had too much oil in the hub from the outset.
My hub has a lovely oily and dusty film all over it. I have been using a 75W 90 synthetic gear oil in the hub.
So today I added a few drops of oil in the hub and the tick is gone.
Too much oil?

75W90 gear lube is a bit heavy. Automatic transmission fluid works pretty well. Straight weight 30W engine oil works well too. The hub should spin easily, as well as the best bike hubs you've ever seen.

Ged117 09-07-23 01:28 PM


Originally Posted by PhilFo (Post 23008147)
Last night I just took ownership of a ~1951 Rudge Aero Clubman. I can't wait to get this up and running. Come to think of it, would it fit into the English 3 speed thread? Many were delivered with 4-speed hubs, some with 3-speed, and many with single-speed flip flop hubs. Anyway, it's a lovely old thing which I'll get to scrubbing with a toothbrush and some mild detergent tonight after work, then more this coming weekend. I'll follow up with photos ASAP.

A Rudge Aero Clubman is one of those rare bikes (at least in North America) that we all want to see and it definitely fits into this thread. Many photos welcome! I've got a '51 Sun Wasp that runs an FM four-speed. Plenty of appreciation for that 1930s to late 1950s era of British bikes and cycle sport riding / touring practices.

Marco99 09-07-23 01:32 PM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 23008559)
The common AW should tick when pedaled in Normal (2d) and High (3d) gears. The sound comes from the low gear pawls being overtaken by the rest of the hub. When in Low (1st) the low gear pawls engage and are not overtaken, so they don't tick when pedaled in 1st.

The "tick" should be noticeable when riding, but should not have a tinny or metallic sound. The tick will become less pronounced if you oil the hub. If you can't hear the ticking at all, but the pawls still engage, it's a sign of over-oiling or grease getting into the low gear pawls.

The ticking will gradually return with use as the excess oil works its way out. A rag may be needed to prevent excess oil making a mess as it leaves the hub. Ride the hub but don't add oil for now.

If the pawls will not engage, the hub should be cleaned, and potentially opened and serviced. Lack of engagement is a sign of a contaminated hub or weak pawl springs.

The hub shifts perfectly, not a problem in the 4 months I've been using it. I did use synthetic grease in the outer bearings when I re-assembled the hub.
I guess I will clean the outside of the hub and wait for the tick to return. Thanks

Salubrious 09-07-23 02:01 PM


Originally Posted by Marco99 (Post 23008671)
The hub shifts perfectly, not a problem in the 4 months I've been using it. I did use synthetic grease in the outer bearings when I re-assembled the hub.
I guess I will clean the outside of the hub and wait for the tick to return. Thanks

The grease in the bearings is fine.

The heavy gear lube you are using is likely causing the hub to have a bit of drag and it is silencing the pawls. The gear lube certainly won't hurt it; my surmise is that in addition to being to heavy, there's also too much. So it will work its way out of the hub fairly quickly.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:59 AM.


Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.