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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

3speedslow 08-27-17 08:50 PM

All good stuff @BigChief

I will wander back into the LBS and look through the scrap metal piles he has. Might find a small bit that fits snug in the case. The owner used to build frames and did a lot of repairs. Kind of guy that made his own tools when he didn't have one for the job.

Rubber hammer, got one. Clean up went well. The OA used was low grade called barkeeps friend. Watched it close and treated it when the work was done. Turned out good!

noglider 08-28-17 10:05 AM


Originally Posted by arty dave (Post 19821976)
Any suggestions on how to clean surface rust from around the inner hub flanges and inside 'corners' of a hub shell? The spokes are making it tricky to get anything in there. I might have to de-lace the wheel? It's been laced with stainless spokes that are in good condition.

Go to the plumbing section of your hardware store and pick up some brushes with brass bristles. They won't scratch steel.

Salubrious 08-28-17 11:20 AM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 19821470)
After WWII it also took awhile for continental (tighter) geometry to reach British road bikes.

Funny- some of that stuff is coming back- relaxed geometry is showing up in mountain bikes now.


JohnDThompson 08-28-17 03:05 PM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 19821470)
The British cycle industry was one of the most conservative for a long time. Even for a time after WWII, there was a fairly widely-held view in Britain that steel components (including rims) were superior to aluminum ones.

I think at least some of it was that the British steel industry was a matter of serious national pride, and by marketing their "All Steel Bicycles" Raleigh tapped into that sentiment.

clubman 08-28-17 05:24 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 19823602)
Funny- some of that stuff is coming back- relaxed geometry is showing up in mountain bikes now.

I'm buying what he's selling. Best truss fork ever!

3speedslow 08-28-17 07:39 PM

1 Attachment(s)
No chance today to put the shifter together. Probably happen tomorrow. We have a nice tropical storm walking over us then.

Ahhh, got ahead of myself. Still need to work the case back to shape

Here is everything all cleaned up.

SirMike1983 08-28-17 09:06 PM


Originally Posted by JohnDThompson (Post 19824230)
I think at least some of it was that the British steel industry was a matter of serious national pride, and by marketing their "All Steel Bicycles" Raleigh tapped into that sentiment.

That's quite true, and there was a bit of truth to the claim initially. Steel parts were tested and proved, but there were some production and durability issues with some of the earlier aluminum parts. Steel also had a more user-friendly failure mode than aluminum.

Some of the premium steel and "stainless" steel Raleigh parts from the 1940s-50s are really beautifully finished.

BigChief 08-28-17 09:19 PM


Originally Posted by 3speedslow (Post 19824739)
No chance today to put the shifter together. Probably happen tomorrow. We have a nice tropical storm walking over us then.

Ahhh, got ahead of myself. Still need to work the case back to shape

Here is everything all cleaned up.

Looking good!

campngolf 08-28-17 11:17 PM


Originally Posted by 3speedslow (Post 19824739)
No chance today to put the shifter together. Probably happen tomorrow. We have a nice tropical storm walking over us then.

Ahhh, got ahead of myself. Still need to work the case back to shape

Here is everything all cleaned up.

Thanks for all the details. All the help here gives me the encouragement I need to overhaul my twitchy shifter. I figure if I booger it up real bad, ya'll will talk me back from the edge.

Camp

plympton 08-29-17 08:00 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Attachment 578270I'll be taking my bike home tomorrow. Probably start the restoration in two or three weeks so I'm trying to narrow down the year. Ser. # 69722. With everyone here's help I have it between 1950 and 1954. The oiler, the brazed guide the front drop is pressed not brazed and a couple of other features can be seen behind the late sixties repaint. I can not see a date on the single speed hub. As I search images and learn a little bit more I'm wondering if there are Raleighs of this vintage that are dated wrong, ie; if the hub says 55 it must be a 55, why do you believe that. I'm old enough to have owned this bike, at ten years old I would definitely change the hub if something went wrong. Question: are there any other subtle things that I should look for to narrow down the year.

BigChief 08-29-17 08:23 AM

Raleighs were not produced in model year series. Changes occurred over time and we do have an accurate chronology of their order, but not specific dates. As you know, Raleigh serial numbers aren't an accurate resource for dating manufacture, so we are left with factory catalogs, ads, old photos and personal recollections. Luckily, Sturmey Archer usually stamped dates of manufacture on their IG hub shells. We 3 speeders use the hub dates as a general reference to date our bikes with the understanding that they aren't entirely accurate and it is possible that the hub may not be original to the frame. Although they usually are and if there is a wide difference of the hub date and frame features, the replaced hub is obvious. Still, hub dates are close enough that we have an idea of the age and style bike we are talking about.
edit: We can also tell if a wheel was built by Raleigh because they used a 3x over, over, over pattern that nobody else is likely to use. Most anybody that builds up a wheel will use a 3x over, over under pattern.

curbtender 08-29-17 09:43 AM

Looking for some love... https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/bik...259056020.html
https://images.craigslist.org/00y0y_...3u_600x450.jpg

3speedslow 08-29-17 09:56 AM

Neat, an old Rudge. Probably has the hand crankset hiding behind the case.

BigChief 08-29-17 10:10 AM


Originally Posted by 3speedslow (Post 19826051)
Neat, an old Rudge. Probably has the hand crankset hiding behind the case.

Yeah, it's a good thing I'm on the other side of the country. I'd be out 120 bucks. Hard to resist that one even with a 21" frame.

SirMike1983 08-29-17 10:53 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19826093)
Yeah, it's a good thing I'm on the other side of the country. I'd be out 120 bucks. Hard to resist that one even with a 21" frame.

Yeah - I was interested since it would fit me, but my contact out there recently moved away from there.

plympton 08-29-17 01:26 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19825734)
Raleighs were not produced in model year series. Changes occurred over time and we do have an accurate chronology of their order, but not specific dates. As you know, Raleigh serial numbers aren't an accurate resource for dating manufacture, so we are left with factory catalogs, ads, old photos and personal recollections. Luckily, Sturmey Archer usually stamped dates of manufacture on their IG hub shells. We 3 speeders use the hub dates as a general reference to date our bikes with the understanding that they aren't entirely accurate and it is possible that the hub may not be original to the frame. Although they usually are and if there is a wide difference of the hub date and frame features, the replaced hub is obvious. Still, hub dates are close enough that we have an idea of the age and style bike we are talking about.
edit: We can also tell if a wheel was built by Raleigh because they used a 3x over, over, over pattern that nobody else is likely to use. Most anybody that builds up a wheel will use a 3x over, over under pattern.

Thank you. Part of that I understand but how do you resolve component issues? Did the 50 and 54 have the same mud guards, pedals, brake pads, head badge and so on in addition to those other items I mentioned? Ya kinda gotta knew what it is before you can restore it.

Salubrious 08-29-17 01:55 PM

Raleigh used what they had on hand like many similar companies. The pedals did not change for many years. So anything from the 30s into the 60s will be the right part. If its got reflectors embedded that's a later pedal. The older pedals can be rebuilt and have very good bearings.

Brake pads vary depending on cable or rod brake of course but the same idea applies. You'll probably want Kool Stops anyway as they work a bit better :)

Headbadges are period specific and as far as I can make out, its all about where the rivet is in the heron's head...

3speedslow 08-29-17 02:50 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Stuck at home while the tropical storm passes us so I went with what I had on hand to straighten the case. It involved a rubber hammer with thin pieces of hardwood built up inside and use of needle nose players to work the severe dip on the edge.

End result

Edit: when I was test fitting the handle and stop plate I came to the realization that there was still a dip in the plate which rubbed the trigger hard so I am still in fix mode. I think this photo will show the indent. It looks like someone took a hammer and screwdriver to the outside of the case to try and pound it down. Notice the marks on the letter M in Sturmey.

clubman 08-29-17 02:58 PM


Originally Posted by plympton (Post 19826691)
Thank you. Part of that I understand but how do you resolve component issues? Did the 50 and 54 have the same mud guards, pedals, brake pads, head badge and so on in addition to those other items I mentioned? Ya kinda gotta knew what it is before you can restore it.

You'd like to know but can't know for sure. The frame may have sat un-built until '55. Component changes were glacial but the Sturmey shifters as well as hubs, are the most reliable indicators. Use this page for shifter identification. If it were mine, I'd call it a 55 and be done with it.

dweenk 08-29-17 02:58 PM

@3speedslow

I think you did well. Looks good.

noglider 08-29-17 03:22 PM

Clever work, @3speedslow!

BigChief 08-29-17 03:57 PM

@3speedslow That case looks pretty square to me. Good job! There's the other shifter you mentioned with the broken spring. Do you have a replacement? I know a few of us here bought some from funthingsfound on ebay. Can't remember if you were one of them.

3speedslow 08-29-17 04:10 PM

Thanks all!

I actually like this type of fiddle work. Ultimately I will be more satisfied when I mount it to the handle bar and cable it up to the hub.

arty dave 08-29-17 04:22 PM

3speedslow what's the brass thing in your 1st image?

3speedslow 08-29-17 04:42 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19827110)
@3speedslow That case looks pretty square to me. Good job! There's the other shifter you mentioned with the broken spring. Do you have a replacement? I know a few of us here bought some from funthingsfound on ebay. Can't remember if you were one of them.

No, I was not one of buyers. I was not aware of them. This shifter takes the band steel spring. Easy to get the bent wire spring but can't use that. I was hoping to find spare springs somewhere. I was down in Wilmington yesterday and went to the Two wheeler dealer LBS. he let me look through the dusty top shelf box of SA parts but got nothing I needed.

It's worth it to find a spring for my second shifter. It's from the same time period as the other one.


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