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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

BigChief 04-07-18 03:18 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 20270547)
I have the correct spanner for that bottom bracket - it's very thin, but the adjustable cup threads were so dry and so tight that I had to try to hold the spanner in place, then hit the end of it with a hammer to get it to even move. I was using like a ball peen hammer. I switched to a heavy sledge hammer? type hammer with some heft to it and it made a huge difference.

Here's a photo of the "before".
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/798/2...1aeb5678_c.jpg1971 Raleigh Twenty bottom bracket spindle, lock washer and adjustable cup prior to overhaul. by velocivixen, on Flickr

That is pretty crusty looking. The one I had a fight with looked fine. I cleaned up the threads with a brass brush and oiled them. Threads looked perfect, but still, it was just as tight going on as it was coming off. Those threads are so fine and shallow that, with the stiffness it was pretty much impossible to feel the threads engage and it would be sooo easy to cross thread them. No idea why it was so stiff. The lock ring threaded easily over the cup, so it must have been the threads cut into the bracket.

paulb_in_bkln 04-07-18 04:49 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 20270766)
The lock ring came off easily but it was the cup that was tight.

The guy at my LBS sometimes lets me "help" by taking apart old bikes from his junkpile. Which I enjoy. We go thru many cans of Blaster spray penetrating stuff from Home depot. It seems to me it works.

paulb_in_bkln 04-07-18 05:03 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20270793)
That is pretty crusty looking.

On the AW from '72 I took apart a few weeks ago, the threads on the hub shell and ball ring were the same way. I think the many years they were closed up tight to each other, completely dry, caused some decomposition of the threads on both. Cleaned and greased the parts screwed together ok. Not smoothly, but ok.

Mooo 04-07-18 05:03 PM

If the penetrating oil and patience method doesn't work, if it's below freezing you might leave the frame out overnight then judiciously apply a heat gun to the BB shell. That *might* help, unless it really is cross threaded, then maybe plan C ...

If by some miracle you can get the fixed cup off, then the Sheldon method of fixed cup removal might work on the adjustable cup. Tool Tips--Bottom Bracket Cups ... you'd want to use a second nut so you could torque it off lefty-loosie I think.

merziac 04-07-18 05:16 PM

Great work VV, love it when someone takes on and gets the upper hand on a pita BB. :thumb:


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 20270547)
I have the correct spanner for that bottom bracket - it's very thin, but the adjustable cup threads were so dry and so tight that I had to try to hold the spanner in place, then hit the end of it with a hammer to get it to even move. I was using like a ball peen hammer. I switched to a heavy sledge hammer? type hammer with some heft to it and it made a huge difference.

Here's a photo of the "before".
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/798/2...1aeb5678_c.jpg1971 Raleigh Twenty bottom bracket spindle, lock washer and adjustable cup prior to overhaul. by velocivixen, on Flickr


Velocivixen 04-07-18 05:17 PM

@Mooo - fortunately the adjustable cup came out last night once I switched my hammer I was using on the spanner tool.

paulb_in_bkln 04-07-18 09:29 PM

Stripping apart all the junkpile bikes, I learned that pedals and BBs are not my friends. Not old rusty crusty ones, anyway. The proprietor not only has 40 years of bike shop experience and knows every ideal angle for leverage, but he's way stronger than I am. I hate when a part defeats me and I have to say, "M---, I just can't bust this one loose." Wherein he steps in and gives it a wack or a serious pull and off it comes.

desconhecido 04-07-18 10:02 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 20268511)
I know Sturmey Archer sells a friction shifter for it's 3 speed hubs. Has anyone used just a generic, like a SunTour friction shifter for a AW 3 speed? Does a generic shifter have enough throw to get all 3 gears? Is there enough friction to hold the shift in place?

Thoughts? Anyone ever use one?

I bought one of the Sturmey Archer bar end 3 speed shifters a couple years ago and never got around to installing it on the bike that I bought it for. Did it today. It's not a friction type lever like the Sun Tour shifters (which I also have). It has clicks which match clicks on the typical SA thumb shifter. Works fine and dandy, too.

I've never tried a friction shifter (or a Suntour bar end) with an AW hub, but my wag is that it would work, but not very well. I think the major problem would be the neutral in between 2nd and 3rd gear. My expereince is that if cable tension in 2nd gear is not quite right that the hub can modulate between 2nd and neutral with unpleasant results. So unpleasant that just the thought of it scares me from considering testing a Sun Tour bar end shifter.

The SA shifters are available as bar end, seatpost mount, and handle bar mount and are not really that expensive. Cheaper than a well used pair of Sun Tour bar end shifters.

Velocivixen 04-07-18 10:29 PM

@desconhesido- Thanks for that information. I’m not really sure what direction I’m eventually gonna go on this bike. For now will keep it stock.....

gster 04-08-18 06:15 AM

1969 Robin Hood Semi Scorcher
 
2 Attachment(s)
A lot of recent activity on the forum.
Spring bicycle fever must be here!
Nice to see Velocivixen back as well.
I picked up a tall Robin Hood frame recently, along with a box of assorted
useful parts.
I did a quick rebuild using a 1965 hub and wheel I had in stock.
Attachment 606349

Attachment 606350
The saddle is leather from a company called Pure City and was reasonably priced at $70.00 CDN.
The front wheel is Canadian made but will keep my eye out for a Raleigh wheel.
All bearings re-packed, new tires. The chain is used.
I'll post some better photos later.

paulb_in_bkln 04-08-18 06:51 AM


Originally Posted by desconhecido (Post 20271267)
I think the major problem would be the neutral in between 2nd and 3rd gear. My expereince is that if cable tension in 2nd gear is not quite right that the hub can modulate between 2nd and neutral with unpleasant results. So unpleasant that just the thought of it scares me from considering testing a Sun Tour bar end shifter.

No kidding!

paulb_in_bkln 04-08-18 06:59 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20271498)
I picked up a tall Robin Hood frame recently, along with a box of assorted
useful parts.

Those boxes of assorted parts: I need a couple those boxes. Order all the bits and pieces fresh and suddenly you're in new bike territory.

gster 04-08-18 07:26 AM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20271538)
Those boxes of assorted parts: I need a couple those boxes. Order all the bits and pieces fresh and suddenly you're in new bike territory.

Yeah, I hoard this stuff.

paulb_in_bkln 04-08-18 07:58 AM

1 Attachment(s)
The '72 Sports I've been riding around since, I think, mid 2014. This is the only photo I have pre-renovation, as I bought it off my friendly LBS. The original rims had to be swapped for CR18s; the sidewall rust was unsmoothable and chewed through the brake shoes in just one day-long ride. I'd planned to do that anyway, it was just speeded up a little bit. It also got a new chain and shifter wire/housing. The B72 lasted almost two years, but eventually tore through, even with some thick foam beneath it, so now the bike has a conventional torn seat, which is actually perfectly comfortable. The Sports is not the most useful bike I have--that would be a Dahon folder--but it is the most fun. After not having one since high school, this turned me into a Found Jesus bore on the subject of old English three speeds.

Edit: March 2013. So it's just past five years. Time flies on a Raleigh Sports.

gster 04-08-18 08:12 AM

5 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by gster (Post 20271498)
A lot of recent activity on the forum.
Spring bicycle fever must be here!
Nice to see Velocivixen back as well.
I picked up a tall Robin Hood frame recently, along with a box of assorted
useful parts.
I did a quick rebuild using a 1965 hub and wheel I had in stock.
Attachment 606349

Attachment 606350
The saddle is leather from a company called Pure City and was reasonably priced at $70.00 CDN.
The front wheel is Canadian made but will keep my eye out for a Raleigh wheel.
All bearings re-packed, new tires. The chain is used.
I'll post some better photos later.

Some more photos.
The very nice trigger came with the bike as well as the calipers and pedals. All in good condition.
I didn't check but I'm sure I've got an 18T cog on the back but will likely swap out for a 20 or 22.
Attachment 606360

Attachment 606361

Attachment 606362

Attachment 606363

Attachment 606364

BigChief 04-08-18 08:25 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20271498)
A lot of recent activity on the forum.
Spring bicycle fever must be here!
Nice to see Velocivixen back as well.
I picked up a tall Robin Hood frame recently, along with a box of assorted
useful parts.
I did a quick rebuild using a 1965 hub and wheel I had in stock.
Attachment 606349

Attachment 606350
The saddle is leather from a company called Pure City and was reasonably priced at $70.00 CDN.
The front wheel is Canadian made but will keep my eye out for a Raleigh wheel.
All bearings re-packed, new tires. The chain is used.
I'll post some better photos later.

Looking good! I like that saddle. Looks great on a scorcher. I don't need another one, but I feel another scorcher build coming on. They're so much fun. My Rudge scorcher originally came with a Schwinn front 594 wheel, so I had to change it. I was planning on keeping the Schwinn 36H hub and installing a CR-18 rim in front and a 40H CR-18 on the nice alloy 55 AW hub that I think may be original to the bike. I bought one of these 40$ Sta-Tru 590 alloy front wheels just so I could get out and ride, but now I don't think I'll ever change it. There's nothing wrong with this wheel. I may get around to replacing the steel Endrick on the back someday. But I'm having to much fun riding it for now.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sta-Tru-26x...EAAOSwGzhaLQpj

gster 04-08-18 08:38 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20271658)
Looking good! I like that saddle. Looks great on a scorcher. I don't need another one, but I feel another scorcher build coming on. They're so much fun. My Rudge scorcher originally came with a Schwinn front 594 wheel, so I had to change it. I was planning on keeping the Schwinn 36H hub and installing a CR-18 rim in front and a 40H CR-18 on the nice alloy 55 AW hub that I think may be original to the bike. I bought one of these 40$ Sta-Tru 590 alloy front wheels just so I could get out and ride, but now I don't think I'll ever change it. There's nothing wrong with this wheel. I may get around to replacing the steel Endrick on the back someday. But I'm having to much fun riding it for now.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sta-Tru-26x...EAAOSwGzhaLQpj

The price on that wheel is good but the shipping to Canada ($57.00 US) kills the deal for me...
They fit in the British forks?

paulb_in_bkln 04-08-18 08:42 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20271643)
Some more photos.

I am eyeing something simular in the next-down frame size. If I get it, it would be the majorest, and most expensive (because a repaint), bike project I've ever undertaken. Come to think, I haven't seen any posts here declaring, "money's not a big concern, so what the heck." Maybe my affection for these bikes is me trying to make a virtue out of a necessity. If I had some deep pockets I guess I'd be hunting up an old 531 touring frame.

paulb_in_bkln 04-08-18 08:48 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20271658)
I bought one of these 40$ Sta-Tru 590 alloy front wheels just so I could get out and ride, but now I don't think I'll ever change it. There's nothing wrong with this wheel.

I never have and still do not understand the mega-buck wheel enthusiasm. Even with much loaded touring riding, a pair of Nashbar (Nashbar!) wheels from the early 90s that hardly cost anything still run perfect on one of my bikes.

paulb_in_bkln 04-08-18 09:07 AM

A few other threads asked a question about these bikes that I don't think was entirely answered. With a full alloy conversion--rims, seat post, stem, handlebars, crankset, pedals, maybe brakes and levers--and plastic fenders, could the weight be brought down to 25 or 26 pounds? Asking for a friend, of course.

browngw 04-08-18 09:43 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20271643)
Some more photos.
The very nice trigger came with the bike as well as the calipers and pedals. All in good condition.
I didn't check but I'm sure I've got an 18T cog on the back but will likely swap out for a 20 or 22.
Attachment 606360

Attachment 606361

Attachment 606362

Attachment 606363

Attachment 606364

Nice bike @gster ! Didn't see you at Brantford Winter this year. I do like a Robin Hood, in any guise. That saddle may help to keep costs down. Going to have a closer look. Where was it purchased?

Ballenxj 04-08-18 09:56 AM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20271692)
I am eyeing something simular in the next-down frame size. If I get it, it would be the majorest, and most expensive (because a repaint), bike project I've ever undertaken.

Does anybody here powder coat their frames? A friend did that years ago on an older GT Mt Bike, and it came out quite nice. As I understand it, powder coating is more durable, and chip resistant. It also comes in a variety of colors.
Just curious if taking and older scuffed and chipped frame would be a good idea since they also sand blasted it down to bare metal first? :)

paulb_in_bkln 04-08-18 10:04 AM


Originally Posted by Ballenxj (Post 20271814)
Does anybody here powder coat their frames?

I haven't had it done but I know it's considered a great way to go if it's done properly, and can be less expensive than what's now called "wet paint." Look at the beautiful two-layer powder coat job in this thread:

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...t-project.html

But I will most likely require wet paint as I have in mind a particular color picked up from an automobile.

markk900 04-08-18 11:14 AM

@gster: lovely bike! I am jealous as all of the 3-speeds I have picked up in the past 5 years have been fun but the paint and decals never seems to come up as well as the bikes posted here.

markk900 04-08-18 11:16 AM

I am also considering the powder coat route for my Humber....how does one do decals after the coating? By that I mean how do you protect them after applying - clear coat seems wrong over powder coat.


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