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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

carfreefamily 03-13-19 07:30 PM


Originally Posted by arty dave (Post 20836603)
Here is a link to an image that might help... http://oldroads.com/mn0.jpg
From memory when I removed the lock from my DL-1 fork, once I removed the retaining screw, the barrel was just friction fitted into the crown. I'm fairly sure I remember prying it out gently with a screwdriver. I used some online instructions, I'll see if I've still got them when I get home from work

Thanks! I'm being careful to be careful.

BigChief 03-13-19 08:29 PM

Take a look at post #23 in this thread. From what I understand, a standard Ilco BN1 K1122D blank will work. Without a number on the lock, I suppose you stuck finding a locksmith to ink and file the blank by hand. I know this can be done as long as you have the right blank.
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...-lock-key.html

thumpism 03-13-19 09:41 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20836941)
...I suppose you stuck finding a locksmith to ink and file the blank by hand. I know this can be done as long as you have the right blank.

I've seen it done. Impressive.

arty dave 03-14-19 12:34 AM


Originally Posted by carfreefamily (Post 20836871)
Thanks! I'm being careful to be careful.

Well that's frustrating - I couldn't find the info at home but it was something I'd found googling around diligently. It wasn't hard to do but I hope someone else replies with something fresher than my memory... I do remember very clearly soaking the barrel in rust remover and everything getting quite foamy and then realizing that the barrel is made of a cast zinc alloy...so don't do that.

carfreefamily 03-14-19 08:02 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20836941)
Take a look at post #23 in this thread. From what I understand, a standard Ilco BN1 K1122D blank will work. Without a number on the lock, I suppose you stuck finding a locksmith to ink and file the blank by hand. I know this can be done as long as you have the right blank.
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...-lock-key.html

I ordered a few blank keys yesterday, with the idea that I could give a shot at impressioning a key myself. I saw the Ilco TM-10 referenced on another thread here. It looks like all it takes is a good eye, a file, and patience.

BigChief 03-14-19 11:16 AM


Originally Posted by carfreefamily (Post 20837363)
I ordered a few blank keys yesterday, with the idea that I could give a shot at impressioning a key myself. I saw the Ilco TM-10 referenced on another thread here. It looks like all it takes is a good eye, a file, and patience.

I clearly remember my father doing this. He had a small file. This one had teeth on the sides as well as the broad surface, so it could cut a V shape. This was a tool and die shop so we had a can of ink we used to lay out shapes on steel. I suppose any ink would do. He would paint the ink on the blank, wiggle it in the lock and file away the spots where the ink was scratched off. I don't think it was 20 minutes before he had a working key. But, he was the kind of guy who could make anything out of metal.

JohnDThompson 03-14-19 12:19 PM


Originally Posted by carfreefamily (Post 20835565)
Does anyone know where I should go from here to get the lock barrel out and find the key number?

Not sure about cylinder removal, but the key number should be stamped on the lock cylinder, e.g. this one uses key number NGN-40:

http://www.os2.dhs.org/~john/ngn-cylinder.jpg

carfreefamily 03-14-19 12:50 PM


Originally Posted by JohnDThompson (Post 20837772)
Not sure about cylinder removal, but the key number should be stamped on the lock cylinder, e.g. this one uses key number NGN-40:

http://www.os2.dhs.org/~john/ngn-cylinder.jpg

If only it were that easy. The face of my lock cylinder is completely blank, not even the suggestion of a number. I'm assuming that maybe older bikes, mine is a '52, might not have had the number stamped on the face like that, but then, I feel like I've seen some photos where they are. I am going off the assumption that I will find the number stamped on the cylinder somewhere hidden, if I am ever able to remove it.

Road Fan 03-15-19 05:20 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20791051)
Just for future reference, I'll describe my plan B for this situation. So far, I've never had to go beyond this to be successful, but who knows? I may someday need a plan C but I haven't yet. If I see the threaded end of the cotter start to bend from pressure from the press, I file a small flat on top. Then I center punch the pin by eye. Then, starting with a small drill and working up in size as I go, I drill down into the threaded end of the cotter. The last drill I use is almost the size of the clearance hole around the cotter. I drill down until I'm well below the edge of the crank arm. Now, the drill leaves a nice countersink perfectly in line with the cotter. Then I find the biggest punch I have that fits neatly into the countersink. Then I lower the bike stand until the wheels are on the ground. Then I drill a hole in the end of a 2x4 big enough to clear the cotter. Then I fit the 2x4 so it fits snugly between the cement floor and the crank arm. Since the spindle and crank arm is being supported by the cement floor and the 2x4 and the force of the hammer blows is being directed exactly where it's needed, I have a lot more power on hand then I did with the press pushing against the threaded end.

I got my stuck cotter out last night. Since we talked I driilled it out as far as I could (from the round end) without damaging the crank arm with the drill. I ran a 1/4" all the way through and made a little more progress with a 5/16". After that it was hand-reamer and files. Round mill-bastard was ok. What was really good and seemed to cut faster were files sold for sharpening chain-saw teeth. For $20 I got one of each size. Finally I focus on cutting back the remaining cotter-wall opposite to the spindle slot. When it became thin enough (the remaining cotter material sticking out of the crank arm was paper-thin) I put the non-drive arm back on with the original cotter and pressed it on decently. Then I put the frame on the ground on some wood blocks and stood on both crank arms, and was rewarded by some loosening. Turned the crank over and repeated. When there was about 30 degrees of misalignment I could just pull out the bent and twisted cotter shell with a narrow pliers. Success!

Next: Remove the spindle, bearings and cups, soak and inspect, and clean the BB shell, also headset, frame cleaning and assessment, hub bearings, rim assessment, SKS Blumels fenders. I need to multi-task the work on this frame in parallel, otherwise it'll be three years before I can ride it!

I'd like to use a TA spindle with the original Raleigh cups and install my old TA Pro Vis crankset with a 48 tooth sprocket, but that's probably part of the hot-rodding phase, along with replacing the rims with aluminum. I don't think I want to re-tap the BB shell but I would be willing to cut down the BB shell ends to 68 mm, if it's necessary to make the BB bearings line up correctly.

I haven't seriously dealt with handling the finish. The frame certainly needs a good wash and some Evaporust treatments, but I don't know if I'm going to repaint. The original "livery" is mostly intact, with some nice white trim-lining over the original deep blue. A friend washed her mom's 1954 Schwinn three-speed, and some of the painted white vintage trim (wings painted on the DT) came off on the sponge!

The bike came to me with a carefully installed original Pletscher kickstand which is still intact, but I think I would put on a Sanyo BB dyno. Lights undecided. I have an FG hub (four-speed with dyno), but it's not ready.

JohnDThompson 03-15-19 08:02 AM


Originally Posted by carfreefamily (Post 20837814)
If only it were that easy. The face of my lock cylinder is completely blank, not even the suggestion of a number. I'm assuming that maybe older bikes, mine is a '52, might not have had the number stamped on the face like that, but then, I feel like I've seen some photos where they are. I am going off the assumption that I will find the number stamped on the cylinder somewhere hidden, if I am ever able to remove it.

Interesting. I wonder if yours might have an aftermarket cylinder.

It appears the stock cylinder is held in place by a bolt on the back of the cylinder. You may be able to access it by removing the thimble on the opposite side of the crown:

http://www.os2.dhs.org/~john/raleigh-fork-lock.jpg

JohnDThompson 03-15-19 08:11 AM


Originally Posted by Road Fan (Post 20838654)
I'd like to use a TA spindle with the original Raleigh cups and install my old TA Pro Vis crankset with a 48 tooth sprocket, but that's probably part of the hot-rodding phase, along with replacing the rims with aluminum.

I used a 122mm Stronglight spindle on my daughter's Sports:

http://www.os2.dhs.org/~john/frankenbike/lockring.jpg


I don't think I want to re-tap the BB shell but I would be willing to cut down the BB shell ends to 68 mm, if it's necessary to make the BB bearings line up correctly.
There are threadless cartridges that may work without the bother of re-tapping or narrowing the shell. And Phil Wood has 1-3/8" x 26tpi mounting rings for their cartridges, and which also fit some non-Phil cartridges. I've used them with SunTour and Edco cartridges; if the cartridge doesn't have a permanently attached drive-side cup, there's a chance it will work with the Phil mounting rings.

clubman 03-15-19 08:15 AM


Originally Posted by JohnDThompson (Post 20838804)
Interesting. I wonder if yours might have an aftermarket cylinder.

It appears the stock cylinder is held in place by a bolt on the back of the cylinder. You may be able to access it by removing the thimble on the opposite side of the crown:

Of the couple of dozen fork locks I've had pass through my hands, maybe 30% had codes marked. The one I took apart didn't have the code either so OP, maybe letting sleeping dogs lie is best. The locks are ineffectual anyway, the lightest of cable locks would serve you better.

Fat Tire Trader 03-15-19 09:00 AM


Originally Posted by carfreefamily (Post 20837814)
If only it were that easy. The face of my lock cylinder is completely blank, not even the suggestion of a number. I'm assuming that maybe older bikes, mine is a '52, might not have had the number stamped on the face like that, but then, I feel like I've seen some photos where they are. I am going off the assumption that I will find the number stamped on the cylinder somewhere hidden, if I am ever able to remove it.

Have you tried bringing it to a good locksmith? I have had my local lock smith cut me all sorts of keys for bikes and other locks. The key code helps, but is not necessary.

3speedslow 03-15-19 05:24 PM

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...91340ef98.jpeg
Itís about time to pull this one out of the bike shed for spring picnic romps!

BigChief 03-15-19 07:56 PM

A fine scorcher you got there :thumb:

tigervw78 03-17-19 07:31 PM

I have a 69 Sports I plan on using as may daily commuter/beater. It was one of my coop finds a few months ago. The rear fender is bent inward in the back and the fender reflector is busted. it has the original dunlop double stripe tires. The chain guard is not original and the block pedals are a little wonky. I was going to leave it covered in the original coat of dirt to make it less desirable to thieves.

Went to the coop today and came across a ladies maybe 19" frame Austrian built Sears 3 speed. I haven't checked the year on hub yet. It's in pretty good shape I believe. It has some good Schwalbe Delta Cruiser white walls, good white block pedals, good fenders, looks like a newish chain, etc. I really want to put the tires, pedals, rear fender and chain guard on my beater Sports. Am I wrong for this?

Also, the Sears fender only has one set of chrome stays and the Sports has two sets of black. Can I attach the Sears fender to the Sports stays?

clubman 03-17-19 08:11 PM


Originally Posted by tigervw78 (Post 20842301)
I have a 69 Sports I plan on using as may daily commuter/beater...the Sears fender only has one set of chrome stays and the Sports has two sets of black. Can I attach the Sears fender to the Sports stays?

Buying the other bike for parts is never a bad idea but personally I'd keep the original rear fender with the double stays. Easy to straighten out. Pretty sure I've got a chain guard you could have cheap plus shipping. Maybe a reflector. PM if you'd like.

tigervw78 03-17-19 09:55 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 20842361)
Buying the other bike for parts is never a bad idea but personally I'd keep the original rear fender with the double stays. Easy to straighten out. Pretty sure I've got a chain guard you could have cheap plus shipping. Maybe a reflector. PM if you'd like.

Thanks @clubman. I'm in Memphis, so I assume shipping from Nova Scotia might cost more than the bike. I'll PM you just to see....

Sixty Fiver 03-17-19 11:09 PM

So good to see you guys holding down the fort here.. .still.

Hope everyone has been staying well and in good health.

BigChief 03-18-19 05:35 AM

Good to see you too. For years, I thought I was all alone with my old English roadster hobby. Then I started poking around the internet and found this thread. I've learned so much here and met very nice people. Thanks for getting the ball rolling. Great thread.

3speedslow 03-18-19 08:03 AM

This truly is a nice thread to settle down in for awhile and catch up on all the bikes and bits.

3speedslow 03-18-19 08:06 AM


Originally Posted by tigervw78 (Post 20842478)
Thanks @clubman. I'm in Memphis, so I assume shipping from Nova Scotia might cost more than the bike. I'll PM you just to see....

Hey Tiger,

You forgot the all important colour description for your Sport. Give us a shopping list!

tigervw78 03-18-19 09:28 AM


Originally Posted by 3speedslow (Post 20842844)


Hey Tiger,

You forgot the all important colour description for your Sport. Give us a shopping list!

Hey, that is important! It's black.

Rear fender is bent and reflector is busted. - Clubman had a good idea about straightening it out. It's going to be my beater so it doesn't have to be perfect. I'm going to borrow a ballpeen hammer this weekend...

Chain guard is not original which wouldn't be a big deal, but it's too large. I picked up the Sears bike for $50. It's chain guard is slimmer : ), so I may just use that.

The Sears bike has everything I need I think, I'm just having second thoughts about using parts from it....

I will try to post pics of the Sears this evening.

adventurepdx 03-18-19 12:26 PM


Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver (Post 20842523)
So good to see you guys holding down the fort here.. .still. Hope everyone has been staying well and in good health.

Good to see you again, Keith!

*****
Just got back from the Dandy Daffodil Tweed Ride in La Conner, Washington. Like a lot of tweed rides, the emphasis is more on clothes than bikes. But there were some lovely three speeds. Here's some pics:
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4888/...b43e5147_z.jpg
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4822/...3df814fa_z.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7854/...03dba481_z.jpg

3speedslow 03-18-19 01:23 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20839858)
A fine scorcher you got there :thumb:

it seems I put my scorcher up in a little dirty of a condition( head hung in shame). But I have done amends! Put it up on the stand for a partial tear down and deep clean. I even found some more of the basement soot that was on it when I got it. Building it up today for I hope will be a weekday romp.

3speedslow 03-18-19 01:29 PM


Originally Posted by tigervw78 (Post 20843016)
Hey, that is important! It's black.

Rear fender is bent and reflector is busted. - Clubman had a good idea about straightening it out. It's going to be my beater so it doesn't have to be perfect. I'm going to borrow a ballpeen hammer this weekend...

Chain guard is not original which wouldn't be a big deal, but it's too large. I picked up the Sears bike for $50. It's chain guard is slimmer : ), so I may just use that.

The Sears bike has everything I need I think, I'm just having second thoughts about using parts from it....

I will try to post pics of the Sears this evening.

Those rear hubs are interesting. Be sure and get a pic of that.

There are gentle ways of forcing a fender back into shape. I use a soft anvil and a small hard rubber tipped hammer. The anvil is a sock filled with sand.

i have couple of coloured steel coverings but the black ones go to my keeper, Sorry!

dweenk 03-18-19 03:45 PM

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3732ef6f4a.jpg

Originally Posted by tigervw78 (Post 20843016)
Hey, that is important! It's black.

Rear fender is bent and reflector is busted. - Clubman had a good idea about straightening it out. It's going to be my beater so it doesn't have to be perfect. I'm going to borrow a ballpeen hammer this weekend...

Chain guard is not original which wouldn't be a big deal, but it's too large. I picked up the Sears bike for $50. It's chain guard is slimmer : ), so I may just use that.

The Sears bike has everything I need I think, I'm just having second thoughts about using parts from it....

I will try to post pics of the Sears this evening.

The proper chain guard should look like this. If you can't find one in your color, it is an easy repaint.

3speedslow 03-18-19 04:18 PM

He’s looking for a Sport chaingaurd. Isn’t that one a Sears guard?

Sixty Fiver 03-18-19 06:06 PM

Damn... 9 years and almost 20,000 posts.

Looks like my images vanished... wonder if that was because of some upgrades here ?

clubman 03-18-19 07:05 PM

Good to see you Keith. I'm shooting for the 20K post. :thumb:

There were some casualties in the photo hosting business, Photobucket being the big one. Otherwise things usually work.
Hope all is well, your back's OK? all that.

Be good!


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