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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

Dante41 12-16-20 04:08 AM

Wait, the Phillips frame still hasn't sold either?


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d4715fbae9.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5a0537fb28.jpg

I mean yeah, $1500 is very steep for a 1900s-design steel frame. But it's a brand-spanking-new double tube frame from Phillips of all things. You'd probably never run into someone else riding one in the US if it was ever even sold here; it'd be almost certainly unique. Nobody with more money than sense has been tempted in 3+ years?

Does the seller have a bad rep or something?

2fat2fly 12-16-20 08:27 AM

Its in Greece, and showing $200 shipping which makes it a $1700 bike frame. Its cool and all that but its also not that old considering the money. I think if it were either in the states or cheaper it may sell but I don't see it selling at that amount. I'm not sure it would go for that much as a complete new old stock bike?
Even at a third of that amount, think about what a proper build would cost, you would certainly want to find a new old stock set of wheels and other parts for it to match, doing so could get pretty expensive and become a global search.
I can't even find new old stock rims in 26" around here, I can't imagine what a new set of original wheels for that might cost if they were found. ( I did notice that this same seller has 40h Endrick rims by SA for $120 a piece shipped, but even if I was willing to pay that much for a bare rim, he doesn't have matching 32 hole rims to go with them).
Prices like these sort of justify the prices I'm seeing for whole bikes here. In fact, the high prices don't even match the sum of their parts I guess.

I don't know if it holds true with bicycles or not but 'Money is no object' type of folks usually don't buy projects, they buy them when their already finished. The seller seems to be looking for 'all in' type of money for only part of the project.


He also has a complete bike listed for $2,650 + $350 shipping:
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8324b755fb.jpg
https://www.ebay.com/itm/RALEIGH-Lig...AAAOSwsExcXbhE

I sort of get the feeling that the seller is trying to get rich quick so to speak, Greece from what I've heard is in pretty bad shape economy wise, far worse than most other similar countries. From what I'm told, 2,173 is a lot of money in Greece, which is about what the price USD convert to right now. I would relate it to the equivalent of having 4 or 5 times that much in the current US economy. So in a way its sort of like asking $8 to $10k for that bike in the US. The pricing is most certainly targeted to a foreign buyer with hopes of finding someone with deep pockets and no concern for the risk of shipping, nor the pending custom duties to be paid, (Being over $700 it'll most certainly get hit with an import tax).

Ged117 12-16-20 10:35 AM

Hi fellows.

My 1950 Superbe came to me with a hybrid gearing set up. It has the AG 3-speed dynamo hub, and a Cyclo 3-speed derailleur which works rather poorly and weighs more than a chaincase.

My plan for this winter is to completely service the AG hub, repair the wiring for the lamps, and install a same-era Raleigh Superbe green enamel chaincase so generously provided by Kurt of this parish.

Big question: I want to remove the three-speed derailleur sprocket and install a single 21T sprocket. I think I need a different driver to make that update work, right? Would the splined driver out of a later AW, say from the 1970s, work in my 1950 AG hub?

Cheers

markk900 12-16-20 10:51 AM

Ged117 I believe so: The splined driver was a direct and easy replacement for the threaded one on my 1949 AW Hub.

dweenk 12-16-20 11:20 AM

@2fat2fly
Email me at dweenk@yahoo.com, I may have a bike for you.

Salubrious 12-16-20 02:50 PM


Originally Posted by 2fat2fly (Post 21834451)
I looked all over and can't find a source for 32/40 Endrick style rims for the old English bikes. I can buy cheap steel universal rims in 36h but nothing that's even close to a match to the original rims.

I've never seen stainless rims, what did they come on?

My 1935 Roadster (Raleigh Sports Model) came with a set installed. Stainless spokes too. They were definitely available after the war as well.


Originally Posted by Ged117 (Post 21835345)
Would the splined driver out of a later AW, say from the 1970s, work in my 1950 AG hub?

Cheers

Yes. The newer carrier is a lot easier to live with, and you can still run up to three sprockets if you so choose.

oldlugs 12-16-20 02:52 PM

Too rich for my blood by far, that would cost nearly $3K to the USA, and then all you have is a bike that if ridden will no doubt depreciate, and the same if not stored properly. You would also have a tough time getting that kind of money back out of it down the road.
If these bikes and parts are getting as rare and expensive as his listings imply, my private stash is worth a small fortune.

It does make all the $300 or so bikes on CL and FB look like a bargain, even if they aren't new old stock.

clubman 12-16-20 03:15 PM


Originally Posted by Dante41 (Post 21834983)
Wait, the Phillips frame still hasn't sold either?

I mean yeah, $1500 is very steep for a 1900s-design steel frame. But it's a brand-spanking-new double tube frame from Phillips of all things. You'd probably never run into someone else riding one in the US if it was ever even sold here; it'd be almost certainly unique. Nobody with more money than sense has been tempted in 3+ years?

Does the seller have a bad rep or something?

These bikes were made after the Western markets had long gone away for roadsters. The seller in Greece has been working through his deep inventory for at least a decade although I think he changed names. Here's another Humber that was up for offer. Duplex fork too.
Still a ridiculous amount of money.


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e616b5d2f5.jpg

cudak888 12-16-20 10:57 PM


Originally Posted by Ged117 (Post 21835345)
Big question: I want to remove the three-speed derailleur sprocket and install a single 21T sprocket. I think I need a different driver to make that update work, right? Would the splined driver out of a later AW, say from the 1970s, work in my 1950 AG hub?

The splined driver from a later AW/FW/S5 will work, and of course, be easier to get a 21T sprocket for.

I do have a threaded driver I pulled from a 1949 FW (which I want to swap to splined, just haven't done so yet) which has a 20t sprocket on it, so the large threaded cogs aren't impossible to come by.

IIRC, they're threaded the same as track cogs. Under the chaincase, no one will notice.

-Kurt

2fat2fly 12-18-20 04:49 PM

I spotted this on my local CL today, its way too rough for me, and likely priced way high at $500 but figured I'd post it here.

https://cnj.craigslist.org/bik/d/cre...241326597.html

markk900 12-18-20 05:42 PM

2fat2fly Ridiculous! This is one I found of several in my part of Canuckstan....and remember these are priced in Canadian Pesos....

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-mountain-bik...ale/1531550290

barnfind 12-18-20 08:08 PM


Originally Posted by markk900 (Post 21839050)
2fat2fly Ridiculous! This is one I found of several in my part of Canuckstan....and remember these are priced in Canadian Pesos....

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-mountain-bik...ale/1531550290

Around my way that thing would be $200-250 USD and be gone pretty quick. I've sold a dozen or more 'Too small for me' bikes over the past few months, all in as-found shape, and only advertised two of them. The rest sold by word of mouth and none were sold local. Most seem to go to the cities, one went west coast via a private carrier the buyer arranged for.
There's a few listed right now in the $200 to $300 range that don't look too bad out this way, and a few cheaper one's that are all either rough, rusty or ladies models. It depends how big of a project you want.
Ladies bikes don't sell, can't even give them away. I gave up even listing them and just part them out these days. I have a couple of collectors who will pay more for a good set of rims than a whole bike.

browngw 12-18-20 10:27 PM

Just got started with this one today. A 1979 Made in Canada Sports. I will rebuild it as cheaply as possible and hopefully find a city buyer. In almost all respects it is as practical as the diamond frame and should be a similar value, but never are. I knew by the added chain guard and some other oddities it had been messed with but the stem is stuck and one cotter in backwards etc.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7a16729e3f.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...579b8e19d0.jpg

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...275679ea6f.jpg

oldspokes 12-19-20 12:59 AM

I agree with BF, around here a ladies bike is parts, you won't get enough out of one to justify your time let alone any parts you put into it.
I had super clean mid 70's ladies bike, very similar to your blue one above, it was a pretty clean survivor, I had gone through it, tightened the spokes, cleaned and lubed all the bearings and cables, put two new tires cheap tires on it and listed it for $100, it sat on CL for a year, it also sat at a local bike shop on consignment at the time for another year. Not even an offer. I got tired of looking at it and listed it on CL for $25 and it didn't sell through a whole summer. I gave up, yanked off the wheels, saddle, bars, etc and junked the frame. I sold piece by piece for more than $300.
The problem is many women these days ride a men's bike, the only takers on drop tube frames are old men who can't get on a mens model anymore, and senior citizens don't have any cash to buy a classic, any old $10 bike will do for most.
I've sold more Huffy, Murray, and Free Spirit bikes lately than any decent brand bike. The bottom line is they recognize what they owned when they were younger and the average buyer looking online for a cheap bike remembers what they had 30 or 40 years ago. At that time, Raleigh was pretty much gone or a shell of its former self and Schwinn was just about done as well with most models being made overseas after about 1982 or so. For a while old Schwinns were an easy sell here but lately they don't get much attention. I've seen a few really nice bikes just sit on CL and FB with no takers.

People also seem to have forgotten how to bargain these days, just because something is listed at $1000 or $500 doesn't mean it can't be bought for a lot less.

markk900 12-19-20 04:53 AM

I have to say there were a ton of step through frames on the search I did above, at even lower prices.....

browngw 12-19-20 02:39 PM

I had to scrap the blue sports. The alloy stem was seriously stuck and all of my tricks could not budge it. I sawed it off hoping I could get a blade in and saw it out but no go, that SR stem (which I wanted for another bike!) was staying. Generally I'm happy for the extra parts but I have no Raleigh projects on the horizon. Some swelling of the steerer tube was evident, maybe from corrosion.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1d756414df.jpg

albrt 12-19-20 09:50 PM


around here a ladies bike is parts, you won't get enough out of one to justify your time let alone any parts you put into it.
We do pretty well with old step-throughs here in Phoenix - crappy brands in good working order sell for $100 to $125, about the same as men's bikes. Not only do the ladies appreciate a step-through, a lot of the younger guys like them.

barnfind 12-20-20 12:00 AM


Originally Posted by browngw (Post 21840094)
I had to scrap the blue sports. The alloy stem was seriously stuck and all of my tricks could not budge it. I sawed it off hoping I could get a blade in and saw it out but no go, that SR stem (which I wanted for another bike!) was staying. Generally I'm happy for the extra parts but I have no Raleigh projects on the horizon. Some swelling of the steerer tube was evident, maybe from corrosion.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1d756414df.jpg


I would just run a drill bit through what remains of the old stem, maybe a 5/8" or 11/16" bit, enough to get either a hacksaw blade in there or a reamer.
The swelling where the wedge was isn't a big deal so long as you can get the crown race over it.
I've even tapped a few swollen or bulged steer tubes back into shape with some finesse and a light hammer. Its just mild steel and it'll go back in shape pretty easy. If it were bent that would be a different story.
Someone may well have hammered a wrong size stem into there and cutting or drilling may be the only fix.
While I wouldn't worry much about scrapping a ladies frame, the fork looks easy enough to save.

barnfind 12-20-20 12:49 AM

The problem I see with fixing up a step through frame to flip is two fold, first you have what ever you paid for the bike, lets say $25, then you likely are putting two new tires and tubes on it, another $35-$40, you break down the bike for a good clean and relube, put maybe an afternoon worth of work into it, truing the wheels, making sure the spokes are all tight, cleaning and regreasing both axles, the bottom bracket, and headset, likely soaking and re-lubing the chain while your at it, then maybe fixing things like bend fender brackets or missing reflectors and such, then putting it all back together and adjusting it all just right and you have $60 plus 4 or 5 hours minimum in it in time and labor. How much are you really making if you flip it for $100 to $125?
Now on the flip side, you flip the step through cheap, tomorrow you find a nice looking mens frame with a worn out set of rims, the rims you just let go for $125 were mint, likely barely used on that lightly used step through. At best a worn out mens bike like that will bring $150 tops no matter what you do because the wheels are nasty looking. If you had saved those minty wheels for the more valuable mens bike you would easily have a very in demand and sell able men's model that'll bring upwards of $200 with minimal work, more if you do a full overhaul. Your better off stripping the step through, using the parts elsewhere and tossing the step through frame.

albrt 12-20-20 09:17 AM


Originally Posted by barnfind (Post 21840685)
The problem I see with fixing up a step through frame to flip is two fold, first you have what ever you paid for the bike, lets say $25, then you likely are putting two new tires and tubes on it, another $35-$40, you break down the bike for a good clean and relube, put maybe an afternoon worth of work into it, truing the wheels, making sure the spokes are all tight, cleaning and regreasing both axles, the bottom bracket, and headset, likely soaking and re-lubing the chain while your at it, then maybe fixing things like bend fender brackets or missing reflectors and such, then putting it all back together and adjusting it all just right and you have $60 plus 4 or 5 hours minimum in it in time and labor. How much are you really making if you flip it for $100 to $125?
Now on the flip side, you flip the step through cheap, tomorrow you find a nice looking mens frame with a worn out set of rims, the rims you just let go for $125 were mint, likely barely used on that lightly used step through. At best a worn out mens bike like that will bring $150 tops no matter what you do because the wheels are nasty looking. If you had saved those minty wheels for the more valuable mens bike you would easily have a very in demand and sell able men's model that'll bring upwards of $200 with minimal work, more if you do a full overhaul. Your better off stripping the step through, using the parts elsewhere and tossing the step through frame.

Agree on all points - the old step-throughs are usually lowest priority. But I volunteer at a charity bike shop. We receive a constant flow of donations and we try to have on hand one or two of whatever will sell, so I fix up decent numbers of old step-throughs and they do sell.

gster 12-20-20 10:52 AM


Originally Posted by browngw (Post 21840094)
I had to scrap the blue sports. The alloy stem was seriously stuck and all of my tricks could not budge it. I sawed it off hoping I could get a blade in and saw it out but no go, that SR stem (which I wanted for another bike!) was staying. Generally I'm happy for the extra parts but I have no Raleigh projects on the horizon. Some swelling of the steerer tube was evident, maybe from corrosion.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1d756414df.jpg

I've never had a stuck stem or seat post on a British bike. Some were a little difficult to get out.
Other brands are usually problematic.
The easiest disassemble I ever had was a 1930 Hercules...
Even the cotter pins slipped out with one tap.
They were obviously using better alloys back then and knew
how the would react with each other over time.

gster 12-20-20 10:56 AM

Raleigh Sprite
Not a 5 speed but a nice bike and a good price @ $80.00 CDN here in Toronto
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f45d79ec36.jpg

dweenk 12-20-20 11:06 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21841067)
Raleigh Sprite
Not a 5 speed but a nice bike and a good price @ $80.00 CDN here in Toronto
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f45d79ec36.jpg

Maybe it's the photo angle, but the front fender is very close to the down tube.

FBOATSB 12-20-20 11:34 AM


Originally Posted by dweenk (Post 21841082)
Maybe it's the photo angle, but the front fender is very close to the down tube.

Fender looks to be dented and out of round in that area and may be contributing to the effect.

browngw 12-20-20 11:38 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21841058)
I've never had a stuck stem or seat post on a British bike. Some were a little difficult to get out.
Other brands are usually problematic.
The easiest disassemble I ever had was a 1930 Hercules...
Even the cotter pins slipped out with one tap.
They were obviously using better alloys back then and knew
how the would react with each other over time.

This was my first too! generally the "all steel" Raleighs can be persuaded someway. The fact that this was an alloy stem contributed to the frustration. Penetrating compounds and or heat usually convinces rusty steel to let loose. Does anyone know if the SR stem would have been original to a 1979 Made in Canada Sports? My biggest regret is I wanted to use that stem on a Rossi road bike project as it is "taller and shorter"!


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