Advice Needed Installing Acorn on Nitto Rack
 

My Mark's rack finally arrived and I was fortunate to get an Acorn Medium Rando Bag for it so I was pretty excited until...
My first install crowded the tops of my bars even with the most forward adjustment on the diving board. Then I cheated and removed the forward bolt and slid it further out and still not cool and clearly not what Nitto had in mind. I thought briefly about a shorter stem and then raising it to the max to give my hands clearance. (I shouldn't have to do that.) Then I tried lowering the rack with a diving board from a Blackburn rear rack that I banged up with a hammer on the vise. This install was better but not good. (I shouldn't have to go that either and the diving board interfered a bit with the brake.) Am I supposed to tilt the rack forward enough to make room for my hands? Do people use a decaleur to push the bag forward as well as provide stability to the bag?
Here are a few pictures.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...dd52359864.jpg
Standard Nitto Dive board.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8eaf64e038.jpg
I can make room with a 90cm Technomic?
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...52b465b322.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1e62b64e19.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9953b67233.jpg
Modified Blackburn dive board. . .
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9f6a45902a.jpg
...and raised stem.

Why not bring it even further down and bend the rack strut underneath the brakes like the Mafac rack did back in the day?

I also think the bag will sit a little lower with some stuff in it.

http://i.imgur.com/NlLS5bnh.jpg

What is that, a 13cm stem?

Looks like you are almost there with the repurposed Blackburn diving board. I'd be inclined to make my own with a strap of stainless strip, to get things exactly where they should be, and not get in the way of the brake operation. I see Riv sells a rear Nitto diving board that looks like it might be long enough if it can be rebent to work with a front mount rack. You don't need that much room for your hands really, but it's looks to me like there's plenty of clearance to lower the rack more and not crowd the tire.

Since this will probably get kind of long, I'd go with double struts and lower the P clamps on the fork a bit. Or you could mount the second pair of struts to the brake pivot bolts, but that would take more doing. If you added a sturdy decaleur instead of sticking with a no decaleur system, you might get away with the single pair of struts.

Rando bags are typically sized for the frame+stem.

Seems like a raised or slightly taller stem would work with your modified rack support. Be sure that the front brake function is not compromised! Moving the bag forward might give you room, but generally the bike steering works best when the bag is close to the head tube.

Lack of a decaleur could also be a problem, since the bag won’t be solidly attached relative to steering motion. Check with @gugie for his decaleur approach. He’ll be especially thrilled that you’re doing this on a Raleigh Grand Sports.

The stem is a normal 120 and that shot of "almost there" is with the stem raised higher than my normal and I need to save room for fenders.

Yeah, tough fit with a stem that long and a rack that sets the bag that close to the headtube. Go with a 100mm stem and set your saddle back 20mm more?

Wow. I had hoped I was putting the pieces together incorrectly or that I needed a decaleur to complete this puzzle. If it turns out I must get a taller and shorter stem, then maybe I'll also get bars with more reach and deeper drop to compensate. Or maybe this rack and bag belongs on another bike.

I don't use the tombstone.

https://live.staticflickr.com/4734/3...1688f49a_o.jpgIMG_2377 by Dave The Golden Boy, on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/4731/2...d7f949f4_o.jpgIMG_1703 by Dave The Golden Boy, on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...155d4fc3_o.jpgM1000LT Bars n Bag by Dave The Golden Boy, on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...ef719025_o.jpgM1000LT Headtube by Dave The Golden Boy, on Flickr




Yes, my stem is both way higher, and has much shorter reach- But you may need to do some playing around with different racks/bags/stems to suit your own particular... idiom.

I started making custom decaleurs for exactly this type of issue. I don't believe that bags should be sized to fit the bike (regardless of what Jan Heine thinks). Bag size should match storage need.

Stem height and length should be adjusted for your riding position, not to fit a bag.

Dave is correct, steering works best when the bag is close to the head tube, also as low as possible, but you shouldn't have to adjust your stem to make this happen. Also, unless you have a very small bag, a decaleur is highly recommended.

Email me if you're interested in a custom solution.

fix one problem by creating another?

I also think that the stem should not be changed to fit a bag. +1 on that. Stick with a stem that fits you and your riding position, and a bag sized to fit your needs. Then position the rack to place the bag where it needs to be.

Mark's racks have very many mounting options. I'm sure you'll be able to get it to work. It looks to me like the rack can be lowered almost an inch, and still have fender clearance. My Peugeot front rack was fixed to my fender at the top. That's pretty normal for a Frenchie style set up.

One of gugie's decaleurs might be the easiest solution. That way you won't need to use the tombstone as a back stop fixing point, as you do with a decaleur-less set up, and the bag could be slid forward and inch or so on the rack. You could still use the stock 'diving board'. (when did this ridiculous term originate?)

I had one on a bike, the bag kept bouncing up and down like it wanted to jump into a pool, ergo "diving board."

To be fair, I always use the tombstone on my racks as well as the decaleur.

If it helps to visualize, here's my Gugie custom decaleur. In my case my bag rode too high and hung a couple of cm above the rack on a straight decaleur. In your case, it could allow you to move yours forward as well as down.


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...fe521eabc.jpeg

Don't run tombstone thru leather sleeve on bag as suggested above BUT secure bag to tombstone by running a toeclip strap thru the sleeve and then thru loop in tombstone...snug down just enough to prevent any sway which is what the tombstone is designed for anyway....lots cheaper than sourcing new parts which aren't necessarily a sure fix.

I’ve got the rack and bag shelved. I’ll drag them out again soon with a more positive attitude. The modified diving board that I experimented with put the bolts barely above the tire and the 5 or 10mm that could be gained by finding some middle ground are not enough to give my hands as much room as they need. Looks like a decaleur is warranted. Going through Gugie’s link above is worthwhile if you haven’t done it yet. I’ve admired many of his photos when they are posted on the forum but the process shots and all the rest of his flicker record is impressive.

I bet one of these would solve the problem, but I'd go for a second set of struts as well. All that and a custom decaleur would be ideal.

https://www.rivbike.com/collections/...ate-rear-20029


Ah, oh. Lightbulb goes off. Boing boing. I get it now. I've never used a rack with a load bearing diving board, and that didn't occur to me. I do have an M18 that I still haven't gotten around to fitting to my Clem Jr. It seems to have an extra thick one to combat the bounce. It doesn't have the quad strut option that Mark's racks have.

Seems to me either bending this bracket or using a different one, as well as lowering your struts will get you where you want.

Had the same problem trying to use a VO canti rando rack on my Voyageur. Then I got a Nitto rack and bought longer struts to reach the mid fork eyelets. It now sits lower and level and is near perfect, although a little lower would be ideal. Seems like these racks are made with a certain bike setup in mind, particularly a more modern one, and probably 650b, so they won’t always line up well on vintage roadies out of the box.

That Mark's rack is a Rivendell design, it makes sense that it works well with bars that are set up higher than traditional road bike bars. Perhaps the M18 would have been the better choice but I wanted maximum versatility and the geometry looks in pictures to be similar. :( The struts are not a problem. When I get the bag in the right place, the struts that came with it and the 420s that I got extra to go with it, will stabilize it well enough. Although, just playing around, there is not much difference with two vs. four bars so no worries there.

I typically make a custom rack for my bikes. Centerpull brakes require a 4 point connection, using the brake pivot bolts as 2, and some bits brazed on further down. Of course, this ruins the paint, so it's only done on frames that will get a lot of other mods, typically. My Centurion Pro Tour "Zero bike" original finish is too nice, so a Mark's rack was used, along with a custom decaleur. I can make the extension length so that the bag doesn't interfere with hand position. The "standard" Velo Orange decaleur extends 10cm from head tube centerline. I've made the extensions as long as 15 cm, with little ill effect on handling.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...eb7e3acb43.jpg
pic courtesy of @djkashuba, 2019 TdMIL