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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

BigChief 06-05-17 05:13 PM

@arty dave The chain guard was solid but badly pitted. I wire brushed off the loose rust, used spray paint as a filler , like 10 coats , wet sanded until I got a reasonably smooth surface. Then I used rubbing compound not polish for the finish coat so the repaint wouldn't stand out as much. For a couple years, Raleigh used mismatched logos on the DL-1. Always looked odd to me, so I used the earlier method of using the same transfer as the downtube. Those modern vinyl transfers look pretty good. I bet they'll hold up a lot better than the original varnish transfers.

gster 06-06-17 04:33 AM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 19631303)
Thanks @ BigChief & @gster. Your glider is slick. I can't wait to see how it progresses.
The 2-speed kickback takes practice. You don't really "kick" back, cause if you do you'll slam on the coaster brake and skid. Mr. VV did that as he cruised down the driveway!
It's a very small "flick" - doesn't take more than that. Another thing I noted is that when I'm coasting, if I move my pedals backwards even a very slight amount the gears change. So if I just want to coast and not shift a gear, I must keep my feet perfectly still.
I am going to have to experiment on how to apply the coaster brake and not shift a gear. I think I can't be tentative with the coaster brake. I need to commit and apply brakes more rapidly.

The other thing is having your foot in the correct position when you stop. On a traditionally geared bike I stop, then do a quick backpedal with my left foot to get my "starting" pedal in the correct position. Can't do that on this bike. You just apply the brake. I'll just be mindful to have my left pedal in the correct position when I stop.
The kick-back hub comes with a 22t dished cog, but I went with a dished 18 tooth cog. I want the harder gear to be my usual gear and the easier one for hills.


Now about the saddle. The B67 S was reportedly only ridden a total of "5 times", and sellers wife didn't like the springs. There are two deep "sit bones" divots on this saddle, so either she road it soaking wet or her 5 rides were really long. You can tell by the stiffness of the leather that's it's very new, but not sure how those divots got there.

My understanding is the Kick back hub was originally developed for a folding bike in order to eliminate the two cables running to the back.
It does require a different riding style.

clubman 06-06-17 05:51 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 19634561)
My understanding is the Kick back hub was originally developed for a folding bike in order to eliminate the two cables running to the back.

That fits with the amount of 28 hole F&S kickbacks out there. Most small wheeled Euro bikes have 28 hole rims.
@Velocivixen, it sounds like Duomatics are more forgiving than the SA when it comes to coasting and not changing gears. I have about an inch or two of travel before the brake engages, causing a shift. You soon get used to the leg positioning tricks, especially with the aid of the front brake. Really nice looking bike, you do good work.

Velocivixen 06-06-17 08:27 AM

@gster - that is interesting and makes a lot of sense. Was it Fitchel (sp) & Sachs who created the first kickback? Seems like it was someone other than the Sturmey & Archer boys.
@clubman - Thank you for the compliment.
I've used naval jelly to remove small amount of rust where the paint is scratched, and want to prevent further rust. What would you recommend? Clear nail polish or clear lacquer? For some reason I sense that lacquer would be shinier. There is a hobby store nearby that has a plethora of lacquers in small bottles.

clubman 06-06-17 09:36 AM

It appears Bendix made their 'automatic' 2 speeds in the early 60's while both SA and F&S came out in the mid 60's. Not that long ago really.

Salubrious 06-06-17 09:49 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 19634561)
My understanding is the Kick back hub was originally developed for a folding bike in order to eliminate the two cables running to the back.
It does require a different riding style.

Bendix originally made their 2-speed with a shift lever that looked a lot like a handbrake. Later they made the kickback versions, but not for folding bikes, just because the hub already employed a coaster brake anyway. They were available with 36 holes. The hubs for the 20" wheels are more rare as they were made later for the 'Stingrays' and the like, not folding bikes!

gster 06-06-17 09:50 AM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 19634983)
@gster - that is interesting and makes a lot of sense. Was it Fitchel (sp) & Sachs who created the first kickback? Seems like it was someone other than the Sturmey & Archer boys.
@clubman - Thank you for the compliment.
I've used naval jelly to remove small amount of rust where the paint is scratched, and want to prevent further rust. What would you recommend? Clear nail polish or clear lacquer? For some reason I sense that lacquer would be shinier. There is a hobby store nearby that has a plethora of lacquers in small bottles.

I think it was the Germans originally, but bendix was there as well in the mid 60's.
Attachment 566080

gster 06-06-17 06:21 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 19635184)
Bendix originally made their 2-speed with a shift lever that looked a lot like a handbrake. Later they made the kickback versions, but not for folding bikes, just because the hub already employed a coaster brake anyway. They were available with 36 holes. The hubs for the 20" wheels are more rare as they were made later for the 'Stingrays' and the like, not folding bikes!

As a kid in the 60's we had a lot of fun on those 2 speeds. You could really lock up that back wheel and "Lay a Patch".

BigChief 06-06-17 07:24 PM

I thought I remembered those Bendix kick backs from further back than the mid 60s. One internet source says they were introduced in 1960. They had this amusing ad.
How things change...Now us 3 speeders are "with it" and she's still a kid in a silly hat.

http://www.trfindley.com/fl_bike_pag...s/bendixad.jpg

Velocivixen 06-06-17 07:48 PM

Wonder how much a working, used Bendix would cost?
I am having a lot of fun on this little bike. In fact, whoever here told my my wobbly feeling pedal was due to a bent crank arm was right. @gugie was able to help it a little, but I don't know if he had a "cheater pipe". The NDS crankarm is slightly bent toward midline of the bike. It is notably improved, so I don't know if it's worth it for me to remove and have my LBS give it a go. I do know they have some long cheater bars.

BigChief 06-06-17 08:27 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 19636444)
Wonder how much a working, used Bendix would cost?
I am having a lot of fun on this little bike. In fact, whoever here told my my wobbly feeling pedal was due to a bent crank arm was right. @gugie was able to help it a little, but I don't know if he had a "cheater pipe". The NDS crankarm is slightly bent toward midline of the bike. It is notably improved, so I don't know if it's worth it for me to remove and have my LBS give it a go. I do know they have some long cheater bars.

I like to bend it while it's on the bike because I have to keep bending and checking. I'm careful to make small adjustments. Don't want to over bend.

Velocivixen 06-06-17 10:44 PM

@BigChief - do you just remove the pedal then ? I don't have a bench vice. I could slide a long thick pipe over the crank arm, sit on the floor with my feet against bottom bracket and push with my legs and pull the pipe. Would the bike bend before the crankarm? What size and type of pipe should I get?

BigChief 06-07-17 04:30 AM

Yeah, I take the pedal off and use a 3 ft long 1 1/2" pipe. I like 1 1/2" because there's plenty of room to fold up some cardboard and use it as a cushion so the edge of the pipe doesn't dig into the crank arm as I apply pressure. I could have enlisted my wife to hold the bike for me but I always have a handy wood pile to lean the bike up against. I hold the seat tube with one hand and pull the pipe with the other. These arms bend easier than you would think.

gster 06-07-17 05:06 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19636882)
Yeah, I take the pedal off and use a 3 ft long 1 1/2" pipe. I like 1 1/2" because there's plenty of room to fold up some cardboard and use it as a cushion so the edge of the pipe doesn't dig into the crank arm as I apply pressure. I could have enlisted my wife to hold the bike for me but I always have a handy wood pile to lean the bike up against. I hold the seat tube with one hand and pull the pipe with the other. These arms bend easier than you would think.

Good advice, I've got a couple of bent cranks to attend to.

BigChief 06-07-17 06:42 AM

I forgot to mention. The best check is to put the pedal back and test ride, but you can save some time by holding a spare crank arm against the one you're adjusting. When the light between the two arms is symmetrical like this, you're close. This arm was badly bent. I took this picture before I did the test ride and it was spot on. No wobble. Didn't need any further bending.

http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/f...h/crank001.jpg

BigChief 06-07-17 06:53 AM

before pic

http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/f...sports003a.jpg

Velocivixen 06-07-17 08:20 AM

Good morning @BigChief - thank you! Now I gotta go buy a pipe. I work for a plumbing co., so I bet I could borrow a pipe! ;)
I don't have a spare exact crank arm, but I've got metal rulers & digital calipers.
I presume this won't hurt the heavy bb spindle?

BigChief 06-07-17 09:46 AM

The arms aren't that strong. No worries about damaging the BB. The thing to worry about is bending the arm out more than you intended because you can only bend outward with the pipe. That's why you do so much checking. Bend a little, check a lot. Besides a visual check against a straight crank arm, you could also put the pedal back, put the bike on the rack and test the pedal up against down with a bubble level. Although, it might be easier to just test ride it each time.

Salubrious 06-07-17 09:48 AM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 19636444)
Wonder how much a working, used Bendix would cost?

They vary from $5 to $75 depending on where you find them. BTW you will want the blue band, not the red or yellow. The blue band is an overdrive unit and is more suited to use with 20" wheels. Expect to rebuild the unit!


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 19637252)
Good morning @BigChief - thank you! Now I gotta go buy a pipe. I work for a plumbing co., so I bet I could borrow a pipe! ;)
I don't have a spare exact crank arm, but I've got metal rulers & digital calipers.
I presume this won't hurt the heavy bb spindle?

I've managed to straighten cranks arms without damage to the bearings or spindle. Think about what it took to bend it in the first place :)

thumpism 06-07-17 12:59 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 19637479)
They vary from $5 to $75 depending on where you find them. BTW you will want the blue band, not the red or yellow. The blue band is an overdrive unit and is more suited to use with 20" wheels. Expect to rebuild the unit!

I've managed to straighten cranks arms without damage to the bearings or spindle. Think about what it took to bend it in the first place :)

I have a bare Bendix hub somewhere in my stash. Don't recall the band color (probably yellow) or if it's any good but somebody can have it for postage. Don't care for coaster brakes so even an enhanced one is of no interest to me.

gster 06-07-17 06:44 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19637022)
I forgot to mention. The best check is to put the pedal back and test ride, but you can save some time by holding a spare crank arm against the one you're adjusting. When the light between the two arms is symmetrical like this, you're close. This arm was badly bent. I took this picture before I did the test ride and it was spot on. No wobble. Didn't need any further bending.

http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/f...h/crank001.jpg

Excellent visual aid.
Thanks

Velocivixen 06-08-17 01:09 PM

Does anyone know how to use a coaster brake with a kickback hub, without causing it to shift gears? Is it even possible? Do I need more practice & finess?

No biggie. Just curious.

dweenk 06-08-17 01:43 PM

When I was a kid, a friend had a Bendix 2 speed hub on his bike (all bikes had Bendix coaster brake hubs in those days, or so it seems). As I recall, if you back pedaled about 1/8 turn you would shift; any further and you would brake.

I remember always being in a different gear after braking though; I mean that every braking shifted gears, but that could be dumb kid stuff.

Salubrious 06-08-17 02:13 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 19640219)
Does anyone know how to use a coaster brake with a kickback hub, without causing it to shift gears? Is it even possible? Do I need more practice & finess?

No biggie. Just curious.


If you want to stay in the same gear you have to backpedal twice.

Velocivixen 06-08-17 04:16 PM

@Salubrious - ok, yeah that makes sense. I'll just practice that.


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