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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

BigChief 10-25-17 08:25 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 19952602)
Yeah, I've really put the brakes on buying anything
A-not English
B-not a tall frame
I would make an exception for a Rudge, Philips, Robin Hood or a nice Dunelt.
I did fix up a nice Shimano 3 speed for a friend a few years ago.
My plan was to swap out the rear hub for an SA 3 speed
but once the bike was cleaned up I opted for originality and went with the 333.
Attachment 585933
The photo doesn't really do the colour justice.
https://threespeedmania.wordpress.co...speed-project/

Being 6 ft tall, I'm limiting future light roadster bikes to 23" also. However, with one exception. I'd be perfectly happy with a 21" for a scorcher build. Those long SunLite stems make all the difference. I see @browngw used one on his gold Super Cycle scorcher. You can set the same riding position as a tall frame and for some reason I don't understand, the resulting bike has a different feel than a 23" frame. A good one I think. I'm very pleased with the way my 21" Rudge scorcher turned out. It's a very fun ride.

browngw 10-25-17 09:14 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19953166)
Being 6 ft tall, I'm limiting future light roadster bikes to 23" also. However, with one exception. I'd be perfectly happy with a 21" for a scorcher build. Those long SunLite stems make all the difference. I see @browngw used one on his gold Super Cycle scorcher. You can set the same riding position as a tall frame and for some reason I don't understand, the resulting bike has a different feel than a 23" frame. A good one I think. I'm very pleased with the way my 21" Rudge scorcher turned out. It's a very fun ride.


You are right about the Sunlite stem @BigChief . I normally ride a 23" frame as well, but a 21" is fun if set up well. I picked up two Sunlite stems in Florida last winter. This one is a regular 22.2mm, the other was a 21.1mm for my '87 Renegade Ranger "gravel" bike.

campngolf 10-25-17 09:58 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 19952602)
Yeah, I've really put the brakes on buying anything
A-not English
B-not a tall frame

What would be considered a tall Raleigh frame? What different size frames did these vintage bike come in?

As someone who is NOT vertically challenged (6'3") I need all the tallness I can get in a frame.

Cute Boy Horse 10-26-17 03:39 AM

Most years 26" wheel dawn/sports were 21" and 23", the 28" wheel Tourist was in 24" and 26".

In the mid 80s Raleigh modernised the dawn/sports models. Lug pattern the same as the contemporary bikes and they brought out a 25" frame size. They very quickly lost their unique parts in favour of cotterless cranks etc.

This is UK market at least.

BigChief 10-26-17 04:51 AM

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Originally Posted by campngolf (Post 19953317)
What would be considered a tall Raleigh frame? What different size frames did these vintage bike come in?

As someone who is NOT vertically challenged (6'3") I need all the tallness I can get in a frame.

At 6'3", a DL-1 would be the English 3 speed for you. In the later 70s Raleigh did offer the gents model in 22" but the vast majority of the ones you'll find are 24" I'm especially fond of these bikes.

Attachment 586009

rhm 10-26-17 08:11 AM

I stumbled on something interesting on Ebay.fr

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/RNoAAO...YI/s-l1600.jpg

Three hub shells, a bunch of other hub parts, bottom bracket cups, I don't know what else.

What's interesting is the "Vibo" hub, which appears to be a Swiss made AW clone from the WW2 era. I've never heard of that one before.

N.O.S LOT PIÈCES POUR MOYEUX 40'S VÉLO ANCIEN OLD BIKE BICI ÉPOCA ALTES FAHRRAD | eBay

johnnyspaghetti 10-26-17 08:38 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19952416)
Lots of different manufacturers made bikes under the Royce Union badge. Some of the older ones are Raleigh made, but this one isn't. Personally, this isn't one I would go after. The market still has real English 3 speeds for dirt cheap if you have patience.
edit:
just an example. This bike was a craigslist find at $50. It had a lot of bugs to work out, but it was worth the effort in the end.

Attachment 585922

All taken into advisement. I am able to appreciate quality differences after breaking down the yellow Schwinn Breeze "Schwinn Approved" is highly overated. Some useful things though Weinmann brakes & seat & bars, Nice grips. Heres whats left of it

https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&i...5520-local0&zw

BigChief 10-26-17 09:10 AM

France, too bad. I have a home for one of those patent AW shells. But then, it would be a long time ebaying off those ancient parts trying to recover the 90 or so dollars if it were an American auction.

thumpism 10-26-17 11:07 AM


Originally Posted by campngolf (Post 19953317)
What would be considered a tall Raleigh frame? What different size frames did these vintage bike come in?

As someone who is NOT vertically challenged (6'3") I need all the tallness I can get in a frame.

The 23" Sports is the most commonly found of the tall-ish ones. The 24" Tourist is a bit taller but a different bike with its 28" wheels and rod brakes. Don't ask which is "better" or you'll start a war. The Tourist is very classy but I prefer the Sports for ease of use and you can always get longer seatposts and taller stems to personalize the fit. You can also fit a longer seatpost to a Tourist but the proprietary stem/bar combo becomes problematic.

On the plus side, if you do begin looking for a Tourist the larger 24" frame is more common than the 22" so your odds of finding one are pretty good.

Good luck!

BigChief 10-26-17 01:26 PM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 19954196)
The 23" Sports is the most commonly found of the tall-ish ones. The 24" Tourist is a bit taller but a different bike with its 28" wheels and rod brakes. Don't ask which is "better" or you'll start a war. The Tourist is very classy but I prefer the Sports for ease of use and you can always get longer seatposts and taller stems to personalize the fit. You can also fit a longer seatpost to a Tourist but the proprietary stem/bar combo becomes problematic.

On the plus side, if you do begin looking for a Tourist the larger 24" frame is more common than the 22" so your odds of finding one are pretty good.

Good luck!

Yes, this is true. You could get a similar balance and leg extension on a 23" Sports even with the stock stem and seat post. Also true that the phrase "ease of use" and DL-1 don't belong in the same sentence. The DL-1 does have the advantage on sandy and uneven road surfaces, but it's hard to come up with anything else. The bike is essentially unchanged from the 1930s and it was a bit old fashioned then. But...When I roll out of the driveway on one it puts a grin on my face. I don't have any rational explanation for this. I enjoy riding them.

Salubrious 10-26-17 02:41 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19954536)
But...When I roll out of the driveway on one it puts a grin on my face. I don't have any rational explanation for this. I enjoy riding them.

Its the wheelbase and geometry coupled with the larger wheel size. Its pretty charming.

dweenk 10-26-17 03:23 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19954536)
Yes, this is true. You could get a similar balance and leg extension on a 23" Sports even with the stock stem and seat post. Also true that the phrase "ease of use" and DL-1 don't belong in the same sentence. The DL-1 does have the advantage on sandy and uneven road surfaces, but it's hard to come up with anything else. The bike is essentially unchanged from the 1930s and it was a bit old fashioned then. But...When I roll out of the driveway on one it puts a grin on my face. I don't have any rational explanation for this. I enjoy riding them.

I have a DL-1, and as you said the ride is sublime. I recently rode it to my LBS just to make sure that they could get tires for it. On the way a group of kids pulling wheelies on their mountain and BMX bikes asked about it. One kid asked if I would sell it. I politely declined, and he rode beside me for a while and asked about the chaincase and rod brakes and the leather saddle.

johnnyspaghetti 10-26-17 06:52 PM

I found a better one than the royce union. What the hell was I thinking? looks like a 1962-65' and looks intact. I'm gonna get it.

https://brainerd.craigslist.org/bik/...311478190.html

https://images.craigslist.org/00303_...vW_600x450.jpg

BigChief 10-26-17 07:46 PM


Originally Posted by johnnyspaghetti (Post 19955222)
I found a better one than the royce union. What the hell was I thinking? looks like a 1962-65' and looks intact. I'm gonna get it.

https://brainerd.craigslist.org/bik/...311478190.html

https://images.craigslist.org/00303_...vW_600x450.jpg

Ahh, that's more like it. Can't see much detail, but it does look early 60s. This will be a good project!

nlerner 10-26-17 08:08 PM

I agree--early 60s based on the decal style. I can't tell if it's a standard trigger or a twist grip. Beware the twist grip!

thumpism 10-26-17 08:15 PM

Oooo! Oooo! It's got a flag holder!

And just look at that chainguard mounting!

Looks like it might have a twistgrip shifter mounted on the left side. Very unusual, but a rider's physical limitations might have required it to be set up like that.

campngolf 10-26-17 08:25 PM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 19954196)
The 23" Sports is the most commonly found of the tall-ish ones. The 24" Tourist is a bit taller but a different bike with its 28" wheels and rod brakes. Don't ask which is "better" or you'll start a war. The Tourist is very classy but I prefer the Sports for ease of use and you can always get longer seatposts and taller stems to personalize the fit. You can also fit a longer seatpost to a Tourist but the proprietary stem/bar combo becomes problematic.

On the plus side, if you do begin looking for a Tourist the larger 24" frame is more common than the 22" so your odds of finding one are pretty good.

Good luck!

I have a 23" Sports that's I've only ridden a little since I picked it up a few years ago. It fits OK but could probably use a little adjusting for my height. I was hoping perhaps there was a 24" Sports floating around somewhere. But I am getting older and you know what they say.... we all shrink a little as we age so maybe I'll "grow" in to the Sports.

And I have always admired the classic look of a DL-1 so perhaps I need to start looking for one in 24".

browngw 10-26-17 09:18 PM

1 Attachment(s)
The DL-1 is a strange ride indeed. Heavy feel like a tank, yet sort of "noodley" and the ride of a '56 Buick. It is a different experience for sure. Mine is my "transportation" bike.

johnnyspaghetti 10-27-17 02:28 AM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 19955347)
I agree--early 60s based on the decal style. I can't tell if it's a standard trigger or a twist grip. Beware the twist grip!

It's darn near the same as my 62 but the lesser quality grips are a little different pattern I left contact info and I have a friend in that area of the state this weekend that can pick it up for me Sat of Sun.
I asked for better pictures and mentioned no worries about mechanical issues and don't mess with the ill mounted chain guard so not to marr up the Raleigh decal.
The pictures do suck bad but I am seeing a good Sports w/a really nice basket. I blew up the photo as possible and it looks like the grips are the same it is actually very hard to see if it has the My close eyes are not what they use to be. I see rusty fender paint I think. I am optimistic. I don't know where this guy got it from but really doesn't know much about it.
I am also curious about the tag bolted on the rear axle.

BigChief 10-27-17 05:45 AM


Originally Posted by johnnyspaghetti (Post 19955650)
It's darn near the same as my 62 but the lesser quality grips are a little different pattern I left contact info and I have a friend in that area of the state this weekend that can pick it up for me Sat of Sun.
I asked for better pictures and mentioned no worries about mechanical issues and don't mess with the ill mounted chain guard so not to marr up the Raleigh decal.
The pictures do suck bad but I am seeing a good Sports w/a really nice basket. I blew up the photo as possible and it looks like the grips are the same it is actually very hard to see if it has the My close eyes are not what they use to be. I see rusty fender paint I think. I am optimistic. I don't know where this guy got it from but really doesn't know much about it.
I am also curious about the tag bolted on the rear axle.

While we're having fun with this grainy picture...I see Westrick rims. Look to be in good shape too. This means that it's a Deluxe model. DL-22. I think I see the gold Deluxe sticker on the seat tube too, but it's hard to tell. That would mean that it originally had a Brooks saddle. Raleigh did use white grips and cable housings on these, but not the thin, plain grip I see on the left. They were fatter with finger notches. This one is like the ones they used on the budget models and on twist grip shifters. I don't think it's original, so I wouldn't worry about the missing one on the right. This model came with gum wall tires. Those might be original. I tend to buy bikes just like this. That's the way I like to find them. In desperate need of help, so rust spots are common. Sometimes, I'll use a polishing compound to bring up some luster on the paint, but mostly I just clean and use liquid car wax. If you give it a coat of wax now and then, it will stabilize the paint and chrome and it won't rust any further. I did a '64 a couple years ago a lot like this one. The picture makes the paint look cleaner than it is, but there's plenty of rust spots. The wax works great. It hasn't changed a bit since I fixed it and it stays in a damp barn.

https://www.bikeforums.net/<a href=h...61ffe741_b.jpghttps://farm5.staticflickr.com/4209/...61ffe741_b.jpg64_Sports by Billy Bones, on Flickr

plympton 10-27-17 06:41 AM

1 Attachment(s)
I don't see that your interest extends to ladies bikes. Here's one for sale.
Attachment 586129

BigChief 10-27-17 07:29 AM


Originally Posted by plympton (Post 19955804)
I don't see that your interest extends to ladies bikes. Here's one for sale.
Attachment 586129

I'm holding out for a pre 55 tall gents in bad enough condition that I can refinish it, but this is a very nice bike!
You really seem to have a cool bike karma going on. Hope some of it rubs off on me. Funny how time changes things. Back when I first started this hobby, a dumpy early 50s Raleigh would have been an easy find.

plympton 10-27-17 08:30 AM

3 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19955887)
I'm holding out for a pre 55 tall gents in bad enough condition that I can refinish it, but this is a very nice bike!
You really seem to have a cool bike karma going on. Hope some of it rubs off on me. Funny how time changes things. Back when I first started this hobby, a dumpy early 50s Raleigh would have been an easy find.

As you know I started with the early 50's Raleigh that I had a my errands bike in Maine then I added the 49 sports. I had a lead on a couple of good parts bikes but that didn't pan out. I know that I'll need a couple of good fenders as the ones on the 49 are junk and I would like cleaner handlebars for the rod brake because the one I have is rough from being stood on it's head too many times. I also need other parts and pieces. I now have a lead on a bike that meets some of my needs ($50). But the guy has two others and will let them all (3) go for $100. One may be exactly what your looking for.
Attachment 586147

Attachment 586148

Attachment 586149

johnnyspaghetti 10-27-17 08:51 AM

4 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by plympton (Post 19955804)
I don't see that your interest extends to ladies bikes. Here's one for sale.
Attachment 586129

I couldn't pass these ladies bikes up & are hanging on the wall in terrific working order. 1960, 1971, 1986 w/coaster brake which I understand is highly equipped on Asian models I listed it at $40 on CL not selling so I raised the price to $60.

Attachment 586151

Attachment 586152

Attachment 586153

Attachment 586154

johnnyspaghetti 10-27-17 02:21 PM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 19955359)
Oooo! Oooo! It's got a flag holder!

And just look at that chainguard mounting!

Looks like it might have a twistgrip shifter mounted on the left side. Very unusual, but a rider's physical limitations might have required it to be set up like that.

A flag holder. Thank you for that I was wondering. The pic off Billybones FLKR is the same but has the nicer grips. I did see a double chrome band in front of the left rt brake lever for the shift trigger. I need to hear back from this guy.

This one posted a couple mile for the house, looks like repaint not that familiar with this version.

https://images.craigslist.org/01414_...7_1200x900.jpg


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