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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

gster 11-11-18 08:14 AM


Originally Posted by DQRider (Post 20657966)
That certainly puts things in perspective.
.

Indeed.
A bicycle was a major purchase/investment.
So when you got a bike for your birthday or Christmas, when you were young,
it may have been close to a week's pay for your dad.....
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...dfe13f3940.jpg
And then you left it lying on the sidewalk and some kid stole it.....

gster 11-11-18 08:16 AM

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...448f2e204c.jpg

wahoonc 11-11-18 09:24 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20657951)
What things really cost
An interesting BSA ad from 1953.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4e9745e273.jpg
Priced at 25 Pounds and 17 Shillings...
Today that would cost 617 Pounds or
$700.00 US
($924.00 CDN)

It has pretty much held true all along. My 1972 Superbe sold for ~$115 usd new, that inflates out to ~$700usd today. I bought a new city bike (Redline R530) back in 2006 that ran me ~$600usd, it is a bit fancier than my Raleigh Superbe but very similar in basic design and use. To me that is what makes something like a Raleigh Sports or similar bike such a great value, with a bit of care they will last for generations and aren't hard to maintain, nor particularly expensive, though finding parts at the corner hardware store doesn't happen much anymore.

Aaron :)

Stenavpix 11-11-18 10:52 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20657992)
Indeed.
A bicycle was a major purchase/investment.
So when you got a bike for your birthday or Christmas, when you were young,
it may have been close to a week's pay for your dad.....
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...dfe13f3940.jpg


And then you left it lying on the sidewalk and some kid stole it.....

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c978a8872.jpeg

I think this was Xmas1976.


A very surprised 12 year old me getting a Raleigh 5 speed for Xmas. I remember getting teased by the guys who had the "cool" ten speeds because they thought it was dorky. I didn't care! I loved that bike lol

BigChief 11-11-18 01:02 PM

And now in 2018, after all these years of inflation, you can still buy a new bicycle for under a hundred bucks.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Huffy-26-...rame/209950755

gster 11-11-18 01:43 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20658369)
And now in 2018, after all these years of inflation, you can still buy a new bicycle for under a hundred bucks.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Huffy-26-...rame/209950755

Yes, it has the perfect fit frame!

wahoonc 11-11-18 01:47 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20658369)
And now in 2018, after all these years of inflation, you can still buy a new bicycle for under a hundred bucks.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Huffy-26-...rame/209950755

With the quality to match!

Aaron :)https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d5a0fd38f8.jpg

gster 11-11-18 02:00 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20658369)
And now in 2018, after all these years of inflation, you can still buy a new bicycle for under a hundred bucks.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Huffy-26-...rame/209950755

This why these old English bikes represent good value.
You can buy one for $50.00 (original price $700.00)
fix it up for another $100.00 (not counting labour)
and you've got a perfectly functional machine that's good
for another 50 years (except the expendables, tires pads etc)

Very few things actually appreciate in value over time (real estate/stocks excluded).
Some things will hold their value if cared for, vintage guitars, cars etc.
Most loose monetary value but old bicycles (and other items) still retain their ability to be useful.
which is a different sort of value.
And as you stated earlier, the quality of materials and craftsmanship can't be duplicated today.

gster 11-11-18 03:58 PM


Originally Posted by Stenavpix (Post 20658202)
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c978a8872.jpeg

I think this was Xmas1976.


A very surprised 12 year old me getting a Raleigh 5 speed for Xmas. I remember getting teased by the guys who had the "cool" ten speeds because they thought it was dorky. I didn't care! I loved that bike lol

Somehow we were all convinced than 5 or 10 gears were better than 3...
I remember having a 10 speed with that chain constantly grinding around
looking for a sprocket, getting jammed, coming off..
No matter how many gears I had on a bike I only used 2 or 3 anyways.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7509826314.jpg

56ford 11-11-18 08:25 PM

DQRider - Iím very interested in the specific steps you are taking to preserve the existing finish. I have a thread ďLate 50s Hercules TouristĒ where Iím trying to figure out what to do with my frame. Lots of scrapes and areas of missing paint yet still lots of color and decent transfer decals. I would rather not touch up the spots with paint but treat the surface rust and ďhaltĒ further degradation. Would the clear coat cut off the oxygen enough to keep it from further rusting? Of course Iíll be keeping it indoors and itís not going to get wet very much.

Ballenxj 11-11-18 09:45 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20658551)
Somehow we were all convinced than 5 or 10 gears were better than 3...
I remember having a 10 speed with that chain constantly grinding around
looking for a sprocket, getting jammed, coming off..
No matter how many gears I had on a bike I only used 2 or 3 anyways.

I know a 90 year old guy that rides his 21 speed Marin Mountain bike 6 miles plus every day, but he only ever uses one gear. He finds the one that suits him best, and pretty much leaves it there. I have been trying to talk him into shifting once in a while, and I think he does occasionally now, but mostly he's one gear Bob..I asked him if he wouldn't rather have a three speed, and he said he'd love to have a three speed Raleigh.
PS, was that bike you posted laid in the mud for a couple years?

gster 11-12-18 06:54 AM


Originally Posted by Ballenxj (Post 20658946)
I know a 90 year old guy that rides his 21 speed Marin Mountain bike 6 miles plus every day, but he only ever uses one gear. He finds the one that suits him best, and pretty much leaves it there. I have been trying to talk him into shifting once in a while, and I think he does occasionally now, but mostly he's one gear Bob..I asked him if he wouldn't rather have a three speed, and he said he'd love to have a three speed Raleigh.
PS, was that bike you posted laid in the mud for a couple years?

That was just an image from the interweb to illustrate my point.
I do like the cleanliness of the 3 speed hub.

nlerner 11-12-18 07:01 AM


Originally Posted by DQRider (Post 20657641)
Here's the closest shot I have of that decal over the 'C' in "Clubman" on the ST:

https://i.imgur.com/cE4tzfr.png

I can't tell from this photo, but before I began cleaning this, I really thought it said "Raleigh", which would track with this being a `49, as nlerner says.

Here's that decal on my Clubman:

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4855/...28fdca7d_c.jpg

Interestingly, mine doesn't have a serial # stamped on the seat lug.

Mine is largely original, including the EA1/597mm wheels with Weinmann alloy rims. The exception are the bars and stem, which the previous owner reported went missing at some point in the 1970s and were replaced with a generic set. I've had it set up with upright bars pretty much from the get-go though I did try a set of drop bars at one point:

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5596/...f44748aa_c.jpg

The problem with that setup is that braking leverage was pretty much nil with the existing levers and calipers, so I went back to upright bars. I've taken this bike on all sorts of rides, on road and off, and it's always lots of fun. One change I made was to swap the rear S-A AW internals for an FW hub gear, and I've appreciated that gearing range in the often-hilly New England terrain.

DQRider 11-12-18 07:43 AM


Originally Posted by 56ford (Post 20658881)
DQRider - I’m very interested in the specific steps you are taking to preserve the existing finish. I have a thread “Late 50s Hercules Tourist” where I’m trying to figure out what to do with my frame. Lots of scrapes and areas of missing paint yet still lots of color and decent transfer decals. I would rather not touch up the spots with paint but treat the surface rust and “halt” further degradation. Would the clear coat cut off the oxygen enough to keep it from further rusting? Of course I’ll be keeping it indoors and it’s not going to get wet very much.

I've used a Rust-Oleum product called "The Must for Rust". Rubbing it in with a mild scouring pad and letting it sit for about 4-6 hours.

Then I washed it with Dawn and water, followed by a mineral spirits wipe-down. I let it sit overnight, wiped it again with a dry micro-fiber towel in the morning, and sprayed the Rust-Oleum "Painter's Touch" clear enamel, one thin coat at a time.

This is a first attempt for me, but it looks like it is working so far. Only time will tell if I've neutralized the rust or not.

Best of Luck with yours.
.

56ford 11-12-18 07:55 AM

Thanks DQRider!

oldveloman 11-12-18 08:38 AM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 20656934)
A quick shot of the bottom bracket bell crank mechanism for an older model Phillips roadster. This one is a 1930s-era bike, but the catalogs show they were used for a larger number of years. These screw into a specially contoured nut that goes inside the bottom bracket. The nut is of a low enough profile that it does not impinge on the spindle.

Getting the bell crank to index back into place can be tricky - I used a small, crushable lock spacer from the hardware store to index this one back into place because it kept trying to unscrew. It locks up very tightly with the spacer.

This is a cleaner-looking but somewhat more fiddly system than the more common Raleigh, which uses a saddle-style lower bell crank that fits around the frame rather than into the lower surface of the bottom bracket.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-YDnp0LwjO...104_121639.jpg


And here is the rod brake linkage on my '54 BSA Tourer:

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8e71b9a975.jpg

Peter

BigChief 11-12-18 08:39 AM


Originally Posted by DQRider (Post 20659284)
I've used a Rust-Oleum product called "The Must for Rust". Rubbing it in with a mild scouring pad and letting it sit for about 4-6 hours.

Then I washed it with Dawn and water, followed by a mineral spirits wipe-down. I let it sit overnight, wiped it again with a dry micro-fiber towel in the morning, and sprayed the Rust-Oleum "Painter's Touch" clear enamel, one thin coat at a time.

This is a first attempt for me, but it looks like it is working so far. Only time will tell if I've neutralized the rust or not.

Best of Luck with yours.
.

I think your approach will be very successful. It's been my experience that steel needs continuing exposure to moisture to degrade. Stop the moisture and everything stabilizes. I have bikes that haven't degraded a bit in 20 years using only liquid car wax. I used enamel clear coat a couple of times and was very pleased with the results. One bike had very solid black paint and transfers, but had dulled so thoroughly that compounding could not gloss up the finish. The clear coat gave it a gloss that made the bike look almost new again.

gster 11-12-18 09:21 AM


Originally Posted by DQRider (Post 20659284)
I've used a Rust-Oleum product called "The Must for Rust". Rubbing it in with a mild scouring pad and letting it sit for about 4-6 hours.

Then I washed it with Dawn and water, followed by a mineral spirits wipe-down. I let it sit overnight, wiped it again with a dry micro-fiber towel in the morning, and sprayed the Rust-Oleum "Painter's Touch" clear enamel, one thin coat at a time.

This is a first attempt for me, but it looks like it is working so far. Only time will tell if I've neutralized the rust or not.

Best of Luck with yours.
.

I think the trick to these bikes, once the work is finished (if ever..) is to keep them sheltered inside away from the elements.
A good cleaning every spring and fall as well.

Stenavpix 11-12-18 10:08 AM

Took the '62 Royal out on it's first metal detecting hunt on Saturday along the banks of the South Platte River north of Denver in search of an historic, supposedly haunted, mansion that was bulldozed years ago after burning down. The area as a reputation for having lots of otherworldly activity. It rode great! Sunday we got six inches of snow...https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f2ecf6a7ea.jpg todaywe have 6 inches of snow!
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...aeb3e167ee.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5c2093d7df.jpg

gster 11-12-18 05:30 PM

[QUOTE=Stenavpix;20659533]Took the '62 Royal out on it's first metal detecting hunt on Saturday along the banks of the South Platte River north of Denver in search of an historic, supposedly haunted, mansion that was bulldozed years ago after burning down. The area as a reputation for having lots of otherworldly activity. It rode great! Sunday we got six inches of snow...https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f2ecf6a7ea.jpg todaywe have 6 inches of snow!
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...aeb3e167ee.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5c2093d7df.jpgGuy with Hat................................................................................................. ...............110/300

BigChief 11-12-18 08:13 PM

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ecbf6b96f8.jpg

gster 11-12-18 08:25 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20660620)

Good one.

nlerner 11-12-18 10:12 PM

I posted this bike in another thread, but thought I'd put it here, too, as it is a 3-speed of sorts: I acquired a fairly beat Peugeot PX-10 frameset and in trying a variety of wheel sizes, discovered that EA3/590mm wheels would work with a set of Weinmann 750 center pull calipers. I had to build a front wheel to match the rear (solid-axle Normandy hub and Sun CR-18 rim), but otherwise used French and English bits that were in the bin:

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4851/...8ce09487_c.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4804/...83172374_c.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4828/...e113482d_c.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4809/...e585654e_c.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4840/...9891ee33_c.jpg

Total weight as shown is about 23.5 lbs, partially because the rear AW is in a 36-hole alloy shell. I've yet to ride it much and will commute on it later this week, but it felt stable and quick in my brief test rides.

BigChief 11-12-18 10:55 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 20660741)
I posted this bike in another thread, but thought I'd put it here, too, as it is a 3-speed of sorts: I acquired a fairly beat Peugeot PX-10 frameset and in trying a variety of wheel sizes, discovered that EA3/590mm wheels would work with a set of Weinmann 750 center pull calipers. I had to build a front wheel to match the rear (solid-axle Normandy hub and Sun CR-18 rim), but otherwise used French and English bits that were in the bin:

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4851/...8ce09487_c.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4804/...83172374_c.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4828/...e113482d_c.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4809/...e585654e_c.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4840/...9891ee33_c.jpg

Total weight as shown is about 23.5 lbs, partially because the rear AW is in a 36-hole alloy shell. I've yet to ride it much and will commute on it later this week, but it felt stable and quick in my brief test rides.

That looks like a fun ride. Nice job. A light weight roadster has been in my daydreams for a long time. Every time I see a new one here, it motivates me all over again. I like this one a lot.

Johno59 11-13-18 02:38 AM


Originally Posted by DQRider (Post 20659284)
I've used a Rust-Oleum product called "The Must for Rust". Rubbing it in with a mild scouring pad and letting it sit for about 4-6 hours.

Then I washed it with Dawn and water, followed by a mineral spirits wipe-down. I let it sit overnight, wiped it again with a dry micro-fiber towel in the morning, and sprayed the Rust-Oleum "Painter's Touch" clear enamel, one thin coat at a time.

This is a first attempt for me, but it looks like it is working so far. Only time will tell if I've neutralized the rust or not.

Best of Luck with yours.
.

QUOTE]
As someone else pointed out, clear coat is meant to have topcoat and a primer between it and the bare metal. Moisture can pass thru the clearcoat and attack the naked steel that is/was showing in the first instance.
The trick is to use a rust converter that acts as a primer . I use Jenolite for my sympathetic restorations. I thoroughly clean the frame first making certain you don't dissolve the decals to remove oil grease etc., lightly sand with very fine wet and dry keeping it very light around the original stickers.
The Jenolite Is applied with a brush and wiped off as per instruction.
I then us a two pack clear coat (K2 two pack used by the auto industry ) but applied with a brush. The whole rustic mood isn't compromised by the hand painting and allows generous applications on underside, inner side of chainstays, forks and fenders where rust damage is most likely to have been a problem and/or likely to re/occur.
Being clearcoat it does not hold the brush lines and gels nice and smooth. The thickness also seals the rougher lifted areas around decals , heavier scratches etc that feature on any well worn surface. In my experience a aerosol application will struggle to seal these rougher critical areas. It also makes touching it up a breeze and you only need to mix a tablespoon full.


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