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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

HPL 09-15-19 07:47 PM

Another Mystery Raleigh
 
10 Attachment(s)
Here is the bike I got at the same time as the Ladies Sport Tourist. It has the same "AW" hub with no date (appears to be the 1941/42 model); but different fenders, gearcase "window" oriented to top vice front, no "fishtail" cutouts on the head tube lugs, bolt-on seatstays, quadrant shifter, and standard front hub. The pedals and baskets/rack are definitely not original. Serial # AD99185 running parallel to the seat tube on the seat lug. No idea as to the model/year, nor originality of existing components. The right crank has about a 3-4 mm "notch"; either intentionally made to avoid contact with gearcase or worn in from continued contact with same (maybe not from this gearcase as there is not excessive wear to the case itself). Hope the photos help; I'm still trying to find my good camera!

Andrew R Stewart 09-15-19 07:56 PM

Re: reusing a chain link's pin- If the chain is a modern 3/32"/der one then most every current chain has their pins peened over on their ends to better retain the side plates from prying off during the harsh shifting forces that ramps/lift pins/shift gates produce. These pins will punch a larger hole in the side plate when punched out, or almost all the way out like was the practice prior to peened pins. If the chain is a non peened pin one then great. Treat it like chains of old, which it is by design, and re press in that pin. Most all 1/8" chains that I see are not peened on their pin ends. I did this very type of conversion about 40 years ago and that bike has been under a few different riders over the years with no problems. Andy (who someday will get back that Raleigh Twenty [not a DL-20] with it's FW hub and the two SA cogs for an 8 speed)

BigChief 09-15-19 08:47 PM


Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart (Post 21123904)
Re: reusing a chain link's pin- If the chain is a modern 3/32"/der one then most every current chain has their pins peened over on their ends to better retain the side plates from prying off during the harsh shifting forces that ramps/lift pins/shift gates produce. These pins will punch a larger hole in the side plate when punched out, or almost all the way out like was the practice prior to peened pins. If the chain is a non peened pin one then great. Treat it like chains of old, which it is by design, and re press in that pin. Most all 1/8" chains that I see are not peened on their pin ends. I did this very type of conversion about 40 years ago and that bike has been under a few different riders over the years with no problems. Andy (who someday will get back that Raleigh Twenty [not a DL-20] with it's FW hub and the two SA cogs for an 8 speed)

Thanks for the explanation. I've been wrenching old 3 speeds exclusively and never understood the reasoning behind not reusing chain link pins. Mystery solved.

BigChief 09-15-19 09:15 PM


Originally Posted by HPL (Post 21123894)
Here is the bike I got at the same time as the Ladies Sport Tourist. It has the same "AW" hub with no date (appears to be the 1941/42 model); but different fenders, gearcase "window" oriented to top vice front, no "fishtail" cutouts on the head tube lugs, bolt-on seatstays, quadrant shifter, and standard front hub. The pedals and baskets/rack are definitely not original. Serial # AD99185 running parallel to the seat tube on the seat lug. No idea as to the model/year, nor originality of existing components. The right crank has about a 3-4 mm "notch"; either intentionally made to avoid contact with gearcase or worn in from continued contact with same (maybe not from this gearcase as there is not excessive wear to the case itself). Hope the photos help; I'm still trying to find my good camera!

This appears to be similar to a Dawn Tourist but a different head tube lug shape. Maybe an older model? Hard to say

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...dc809fea84.jpg

HPL 09-16-19 01:59 AM

4 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 21123981)
This appears to be similar to a Dawn Tourist but a different head tube lug shape. Maybe an older model? Hard to say.

Thanks for keeping the imagery coming Big Chief! I did look at those other pictures. I can't find a reference to this serial number, unless it is shown incorrectly in the database. It would be around 1958 if the "AD" is after the numbers, but there is no listing for a serial number starting with two letters, only ending in them. I hope this is just a mislabeling in the database. I've yet to confirm if the hub has a threaded sprocket or not, but it looks identical to my other example; which begs the question of what year the frame is if the hub is '41-'42, and the frame possibly 1958. Seems unlikely that an older hub would be installed on a newer frame, but I'm pretty much accepting anything as possible at this point. It would seem that this frame was powder coated, and the headbadge (original?) appears to have been "JB Welded" (no rivets) onto the tube; probably doesn't show well in the photo.

BigChief 09-16-19 05:36 AM

This one is a mystery to me. Every Raleigh I've seen has shaped head tube lugs. This does have the Raleigh style rod brake linkage piece that pivots on both sides of the down tube. Most other manufacturers used a single arm on one side. It looks slightly different than the linkage piece on my Raleigh, but that might just be the angle of the photo. That flip top oil port on the bottom bracket was used on Raleighs from the mid 50s to around 1960.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1ee87eb30c.jpg

Salubrious 09-16-19 12:18 PM

Picked up a 1948 Royal Enfield at the ABCE this weekend. Photos soon...

DQRider 09-16-19 12:27 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 21124794)
Picked up a 1948 Royal Enfield at the ABCE this weekend. Photos soon...

Wow, that was quite a day for you! Not only did he score an awesome bicycle, but he triumphed in the "Gravity Race and Day-Old Pastry Joust", and his beautiful Bates won another award. Way to go, Ralph! :thumb:

.

Salubrious 09-16-19 12:34 PM

Those tubular tires were a pain in the rear to install but they paid off for the Gravity Race.

littlevikingca 09-16-19 03:36 PM

Re: Post 21229 "1950 Superbe Update"

Since I'm a "Newbie" I cannot actually link to the original post, hence the reference above.

Hi,

Beautiful job on the bike!

Re: the shifting issue: if the Indicator rod is set correctly in "normal" N, perhaps your shift cable length is too long. Sturmey Archer normally specified a 17-1/2" outer with a 21-1/2" outer available for special conditions. To quote from the '50's/60's service manual: " the outer cable should allow full movement of the handlebars but otherwise should be kept as short as possible, as it tends to compress in lower gears and any length over 21-1/2 inches may affect the gear adjustment adversely".

Visually, this isn't intuitive obvious, so my experience is that you cut the outer cable to the specified length and adjust the fulcrum and shifters to end-up with a "best fit/relatively smooth" cable run.

HPL 09-16-19 04:50 PM

3 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 21124190)
This one is a mystery to me. Every Raleigh I've seen has shaped head tube lugs. This does have the Raleigh style rod brake linkage piece that pivots on both sides oe f the down tube. Most other manufacturers used a single arm on one side. It looks slightly different than the linkage piece on my Raleigh, but that might just be the angle of the photo. That flip top oil port on the bottom bracket was used on Raleighs from the mid 50s to around 1960.

"Chief", the brake linkage is identical to yours. I found a 1930 catalogue with the Superbe pictured having the "plain jane" headtube lugs. Very similar in way, but also quite different given the "X" frame and other features. Mine has no pump "pins", looks like the pump uses clamp-on "pins" in the picture, and rear reflector mounted high on fender, whereas mine is low. Fenders are similar, gearcase is similar, bolt-on stays. Obviously not the bike, but it is the only bike I've seen with the same lugs. I'll see if I can find a newer version without the "X" frame design, but encompassing the other features.

clubman 09-16-19 04:59 PM


Originally Posted by littlevikingca (Post 21125131)
Re: Post 21229 "1950 Superbe Update"

Since I'm a "Newbie" I cannot actually link to the original post, hence the reference above.

Welcome to the forum, nice little collection of bikes you have, can't wait for pics.

littlevikingca 09-16-19 06:01 PM

Thanks Clubman,

I'll add the link and share some photos after my 10 posts.

Cheers,

Dave

Ballenxj 09-16-19 07:49 PM


Originally Posted by littlevikingca (Post 21125131)
Re: Post 21229 "1950 Superbe Update"

Since I'm a "Newbie" I cannot actually link to the original post, hence the reference.

Welcome to the forum. Four posts to go. :thumb:

curbtender 09-16-19 08:00 PM

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...35e3ba61c7.jpg

Put this Humber Sports back to together, 70'?
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d1c53ebf4b.jpg

I'm guessing the bracket is for accessories?

littlevikingca 09-16-19 09:13 PM

Hi,

Yes, that is the mount for the headlamp. Suitable head lights will have a bracket that slips over the bracket and can be clamped in place to set the "tilt". It also acts as a "non-rotational" washer for the headset. It has a small tab that engages with a vertical slot in the steerer tube that prevents the locknut from rotating the upper race while tightening.

Cheers,

Dave K

Johno59 09-17-19 12:51 AM

FW Derailleur Drive Chain
 
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2a6bb41811.jpg

This is a Crimson Star on a 1903 Sunbeam
9

Originally Posted by gster (Post 21123666)
Six Speed Conversion Sh*t Show
What I thought would be a simple project has
been somewhat frustrating but there is a light
at the end of the tunnel....
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ef5c57c039.jpg
I set the bike up yesterday and bought a 3/32" 10 speed chain assuming the 1/2" pitch
would be compatible.
It wasn't.
It binds on the chain ring and refused to engage the smaller cog..
I'd had enough and let it be.
Today I added a couple of washers to the derailleur rollers to expand
the width to accept a standard 1/8" chain.
All seemed good.
Until I installed the master link which now
catches on the derailleur cage
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...32a2e50b7d.jpg

I'm not dissuaded. The 3/32" chain was only $15.00 and the
1/8" chain was cobbled together from a couple I had lying around.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...479346e839.jpg
Tomorrow's another day......

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...eadf7b16c.jpeg

Resilion made these uncaged derailleurs to accommodate the wider links. This is a seven speed Crimson Star.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...19bff41ccf.jpg

This one bolts onto the chainstay rather than on a hanger secured by the axle nut.

BigChief 09-17-19 04:51 AM


Originally Posted by curbtender (Post 21125525)
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...35e3ba61c7.jpg

Put this Humber Sports back to together, 70'?
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d1c53ebf4b.jpg

I'm guessing the bracket is for accessories?

Nice one. Could be 1970, but could also go back to the late 60s. Check the hub date stamp. It's really nice that it has the traditional Humber chainwheel. One of my favorites. Raleigh gave up on using the stylized brand specific chainrings on their acquired brands and started using their generic chainring around that time.

BigChief 09-17-19 05:08 AM


Originally Posted by littlevikingca (Post 21125368)
Thanks Clubman,

I'll add the link and share some photos after my 10 posts.

Cheers,

Dave

I'm looking forward to seeing your Pathfinder. That's the grail bike I never found in all my years of hunting.

gster 09-17-19 06:45 AM


Originally Posted by Johno59 (Post 21125717)
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2a6bb41811.jpg

This is a Crimson Star on a 1903 Sunbeam
9

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...eadf7b16c.jpeg

Resilion made these uncaged derailleurs to accommodate the wider links. This is a seven speed Crimson Star.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...19bff41ccf.jpg

This one bolts onto the chainstay rather than on a hanger secured by the axle nut.

Very Nice...
I'll press on with my project and see if I even
like it.

DQRider 09-17-19 06:52 AM


Originally Posted by Johno59 (Post 21125717)
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2a6bb41811.jpg

This is a Crimson Star on a 1903 Sunbeam
9

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...eadf7b16c.jpeg

Resilion made these uncaged derailleurs to accommodate the wider links. This is a seven speed Crimson Star.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...19bff41ccf.jpg

This one bolts onto the chainstay rather than on a hanger secured by the axle nut.

That is a brilliant photograph, Johno59. :thumb:

Your use of lighting and a small aperture for depth-of-field turns a technical photograph into a work of art. Very nice!


.

curbtender 09-17-19 09:10 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 21125781)
Nice one. Could be 1970, but could also go back to the late 60s. Check the hub date stamp. It's really nice that it has the traditional Humber chainwheel. One of my favorites. Raleigh gave up on using the stylized brand specific chainrings on their acquired brands and started using their generic chainring around that time.

I pointed out the 70 stamped on the hub and the running man chainring to another interested buyer. The owner said it was older and maybe the wheels had been changed. I don't think so. As I was leaving, the seller said he didn't want to bring it back in the garage and proposed a giveaway price and threw in a Taiwan Raliegh. Got a chance to use my Park Tool cotter press. What a gem. https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...940f41c127.jpg

gster 09-17-19 03:14 PM

As Homer Simpson said:
"Never Try...."
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7139a46927.jpg
The double cog project is on an indefinite hiatus..
I tried to take it for a spin down the alley
The derailluer travelled too far and broke 3 spokes and popped
the cogs off the hub as well.
The bike has now been restored to it's natural state.
I prefer 3 speeds anyway.
I even put the shifter on it!
The cool one.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...afd2e217f1.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a139d29651.jpg

On the plus side, tomorrow, I'm delivering the Villager 3 speed project bike
to a deserving friend in Hamilton,
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...986c479c35.jpg
and with the right price coming home with
a 1955 Humber 3 speed.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...38f1892750.jpg

BigChief 09-17-19 04:06 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21126714)
As Homer Simpson said:
"Never Try...."
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7139a46927.jpg
The double cog project is on an indefinite hiatus..
I tried to take it for a spin down the alley
The derailluer travelled too far and broke 3 spokes and popped
the cogs off the hub as well.
The bike has now been restored to it's natural state.
I prefer 3 speeds anyway.
I even put the shifter on it!
The cool one.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...afd2e217f1.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a139d29651.jpg

On the plus side, tomorrow, I'm delivering the Villager 3 speed project bike
to a deserving friend in Hamilton,
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...986c479c35.jpg
and with the right price coming home with
a 1955 Humber 3 speed.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...38f1892750.jpg

Still, some valuable research done here. If you'd care to explain what you think went wrong and why, I'd like to hear. I like experimental projects.

gster 09-17-19 04:23 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 21126793)
Still, some valuable research done here. If you'd care to explain what you think went wrong and why, I'd like to hear. I like experimental projects.

Truth is, I rushed it.
Details to follow.


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