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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

graywolf 11-07-12 07:11 PM


Originally Posted by Juggler2 (Post 14922785)

That is what I have, I do not recommend it if you have a full chaincase on your bike. The type of stand that came with such bikes in the old days was one that was part of the rack. I saw someplace that was selling them recently but it was out of my price range. Also, if you try to mount that one on a 3-speed you need some extra thin nuts under the mount to hold the axle tight.

akcapbikeforums 11-09-12 08:49 AM

Took my 'new' Raleigh Sports in to the office this week. It's a 1972 Standard (S22): no pump pegs, Endrick rims, no headlight mount... and after studying the sticker at the bottom of the seat tube (which is covered mostly by a bike shop decal from Sudgen & Lynch of Menlo Park)... the bike was definitely made in Malaysia.

I took it for a maiden voyage Wednesday, and it's super comfortable and smooth -- it's going to be the perfect downtown bike. I have a 20 mile drive to the office, so it will strictly serve for lunchtime rides and getting mileage in to prep for next spring's GAP/C&O trip.

It's now shifting through all three gears well -- though downshifts seem to require more effort. This is one of those bikes that's suffered more dis-use than overuse, so now that I've lubed the hub well, it probably just needs some exercise. The chrome cleaned up super well, but the front Endrick rim seems to have suffered disproportionately -- I'd like to replace that so if anyone has a fairly nice Endrick wheel sitting around, let me know.

Norfolk is almost completely flat, but we do get wind --3rd gear is just too high to be useful. I'm thinking of changing out the rear cog to either 22T or 24T. Any thoughts or recommendations on that would be appreciated.

And I need to come up with a good name for her.

Here she is at my desk up on the 15th floor of the new Wells Fargo Center (to the right you can see the tracks of our new light rail, The Tide):

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...49398552_n.jpg

flammenwurfer 11-09-12 09:21 AM

Very nice akcapbikeforums! Cool picture. I put a 22t cog on my Sports and I really like it. I think any larger than 22 would make 3rd too low. I think 22 is a very good choice if you have high winds or hills but still want a decent 3rd gear.

gna 11-09-12 10:33 AM


Originally Posted by akcapbikeforums (Post 14930924)
Took my new Raleigh Sports in to the office this week. It's a 1972 Standard (S22): no pump pegs, no headlight mount... and after studying the sticker at the bottom of the seat tube (which is covered mostly by a bike shop decal from Sudgen & Lynch of Menlo Park)... the bike was definitely made in Malaysia.

I took it for a maiden voyage Wednesday, and it's super comfortable and smooth -- it's going to be the perfect downtown bike. I have a 20 mile drive to the office, so it will strictly serve for lunchtime rides and getting mileage in to prep for next spring's GAP/C&O trip.

Looking good. Is this the GAP/C&O trip? That looks fun.

Sixty Fiver 11-09-12 10:51 AM


Originally Posted by flammenwurfer (Post 14931047)
Very nice akcapbikeforums! Cool picture. I put a 22t cog on my Sports and I really like it. I think any larger than 22 would make 3rd too low. I think 22 is a very good choice if you have high winds or hills but still want a decent 3rd gear.

It has probably been said here many times that the stock gearing on a Sports and Raleigh's other three speeds was optimized for riding on fairly level roads and suited lower cadence riding... if you ride a stock Twenty or a Sports the gearing will be nearly the same as the cog sizes were adjusted to bring them within a few gear inches of each other and many DL1 models were fitted with a larger cog to equalize the gearing for the 635 wheels.

In any case, it makes 3rd gear fairly useless for a bike that weighs 35-45 pounds and increasing the size of the rear cog improves the low gear and makes the 3rd gear more usable... I like to set up my 3 speeds with the high gear being my primary cruising gear and then I have two steps down for wind, hills, and bigger hills.

akcapbikeforums 11-09-12 12:24 PM


Originally Posted by flammenwurfer (Post 14931047)
Very nice akcapbikeforums! Cool picture. I put a 22t cog on my Sports and I really like it. I think any larger than 22 would make 3rd too low. I think 22 is a very good choice if you have high winds or hills but still want a decent 3rd gear.

Thanks flammenwurfer!


Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver (Post 14931420)
In any case, it makes 3rd gear fairly useless for a bike that weighs 35-45 pounds and increasing the size of the rear cog improves the low gear and makes the 3rd gear more usable... I like to set up my 3 speeds with the high gear being my primary cruising gear and then I have two steps down for wind, hills, and bigger hills.

So 65er, are you a fan more of the 24T over the 22T?


Originally Posted by gna (Post 14931336)
Looking good. Is this the GAP/C&O trip? That looks fun.

Same trip, though we are doing ours ad hoc!

Sixty Fiver 11-09-12 01:14 PM


Originally Posted by akcapbikeforums (Post 14931804)
Thanks flammenwurfer!

So 65er, are you a fan more of the 24T over the 22T?

Same trip, though we are doing ours ad hoc!

Gimped as I am I don't run any cog as large as a 24... I aim for a low of 40 gear inches so a 21 tooth cog on a Sports with 26 inch wheels does that, modifying a Twenty with it's smaller wheel rates a 19 as they do not like even numbered cogs as it does not work with the chain stay length and limited adjustment.

My winter bike has a 22 tooth cog mated to a 42 tooth chain ring to give it a low of 35 gear inches.

jrecoi 11-09-12 01:23 PM

In glass table flat Miami when I got my Raleigh, 48x22 worked well. Starting off on 2nd (56"), and then switching to 3rd (75") worked well most of the time, and when the headwinds and ocassional overpass got too strong, 1st (42") did the trick.

Now that it's in Colombia, the gearing became rather inadequate for both the hills and the unpaved roads. 2nd (56") works well on level unpaved roads, with 3rd (75") doing well on any downhills and level paved roads. 1st (42") works with short unpaved uphills, and extended paved uphills, but unpaved uphills are too much.

To deal with this, I have three options:

One, I change out for a larger rear sprocket, a 23t to get 72"-54"-40" gearing with the original 48 tooth crank. The issue this has is the full chaincase, I'm not sure how large a rear cog it can handle, but from what I've heard 23-24 teeth is the upper limit. I'll also have to play a bit with chain length, might have to get a half link as well.

Two, I swap the crank for a 46t to get similar gearing with the same 22t sprocket. More expensive, but a simple change.

Three, swap the AW guts for S5 or FW guts, and their associated odds and ends. An expensive and rather invasive change. I'll do this only if measures One and Two don't do the trick.

IthaDan 11-09-12 01:35 PM

Sorry, just saw this.


Originally Posted by jrecoi (Post 14875170)
Question: can you provide the dimensions for that rear rack? They're awfully hard to find, and while I haven't looked too deeply into the local offerings, I might just have to build one on my own.

What would be the best way to do this? Pictures with a tape measure? Pictures against a backdrop of 1/4" graph paper?

jrecoi 11-09-12 02:00 PM


Originally Posted by IthaDan (Post 14932074)
Sorry, just saw this.



What would be the best way to do this? Pictures with a tape measure? Pictures against a backdrop of 1/4" graph paper?

Pictures with tape measure please.

IthaDan 11-09-12 03:30 PM


Originally Posted by jrecoi (Post 14932161)
Pictures with tape measure please.

Alright, if I missed an angle let me know-

http://i.imgur.com/qXJYOl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/7l31ol.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/jsNfMl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/dHxIUl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Knc9Ql.jpg

More (and full resolution) in the album- http://imgur.com/a/0Bgfz

Juggler2 11-09-12 03:41 PM


Originally Posted by graywolf (Post 14925783)
That is what I have, I do not recommend it if you have a full chaincase on your bike. The type of stand that came with such bikes in the old days was one that was part of the rack. I saw someplace that was selling them recently but it was out of my price range. Also, if you try to mount that one on a 3-speed you need some extra thin nuts under the mount to hold the axle tight.

Thanks for the "heads up"! I haven't actually seen one or have any first hand experience with one, so you may have saved me and possibly others from some future grief. At least my intentions were good! :)

PalmettoUpstate 11-12-12 05:53 PM

1 Attachment(s)
This bike may be a diamond in the rough; anybody have any info on it? It has just turned up on our local Craigslist. Thanks!

[h=2]ANTIQUE COLSON BIKE - $100 (Pelzer SC)[/h]http://greenville.craigslist.org/bik/3403009586.html

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=283359

noglider 11-12-12 06:53 PM

I have a 24T sprocket on mine. Sure, the gears are low, but we have some hills here, and I've even used the bike to tow a trailer full of stuff. Top gear is about 69" so I spin out easily, but so what? By that time, I'm going downhill anyway.

Velognome 11-12-12 07:56 PM

Colsons are nice, chainguard is a classic. Would make a nice project. the parts alone are worth more than the asking price.....but it's not English, nor a 3speed so Blah! Not interested....but I'd buy it if I were local

sailorbenjamin 11-12-12 10:37 PM

Yeah, that Colson is an old American bike. Looks like it would clean up to a nice patina. The wood rims are really cool but the 28" singletube tires are really expensive. It's cheaper to convert them to English 28" clinchers. Look over at www.thecabe.com for more like that.

Velognome 11-13-12 05:48 AM


Originally Posted by sailorbenjamin (Post 14942201)
It's cheaper to convert them to English 28" clinchers. Look over at www.thecabe.com for more like that.

:( just :(

PalmettoUpstate 11-13-12 08:52 AM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by Velognome (Post 14941795)
Colsons are nice, chainguard is a classic. Would make a nice project. the parts alone are worth more than the asking price.....but it's not English, nor a 3speed so Blah! Not interested....but I'd buy it if I were local

Yeah the chainguard definitely caught my eye - I wasn't able to find a pic online with one like it. Also like the "integrated skirt guards" LOL.

Here's a better pic of the chainguard that I have saved in my own archive now:

PalmettoUpstate 11-13-12 08:53 AM


Originally Posted by sailorbenjamin (Post 14942201)
Yeah, that Colson is an old American bike. Looks like it would clean up to a nice patina. The wood rims are really cool but the 28" singletube tires are really expensive. It's cheaper to convert them to English 28" clinchers. Look over at www.thecabe.com for more like that.

So are you saying that those are wooden rims?

Tx

Velognome 11-13-12 06:43 PM

The chainguard was a common design from say 1890's thru the late teens.

Rims look to be 28" steel clad wood which would put the bike squarely in the teens or 20's

ftwelder 11-13-12 06:53 PM


Originally Posted by PalmettoUpstate (Post 14942957)
So are you saying that those are wooden rims?

Tx

I would say so. Most american bikes up to 1920 had wooden rims. 28" is the same as 700C and wood rim bikes can often fit semi modern big tubular tires.

clubman 11-13-12 07:02 PM


Originally Posted by Velognome (Post 14941795)
....but it's not English, nor a 3speed so Blah!

This. A Colson needs it's own thread. Stay the course boys! (and girls)

w1xq 11-13-12 07:44 PM

71 Triumph
 
1 Attachment(s)
Picked up this evening! In pretty good shape.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=283651

Velognome 11-13-12 10:08 PM

1 Attachment(s)
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=283692Whle making plans to build up this Rudge Whitworth using new Sturmey gears and brakes I noticed a very slight bend in the seat tube at the juction of the looped down tube. The frame and fork are sound and show no signs of abuse or a crash so I'm thinking this is just from fatigue. My thought is to run a steel seat pin all the way down the tube, forcing the seat tube straight and reinforcing the junction. Any thoughts or comments ?

rhm 11-13-12 11:47 PM

Hmm, you mean no signs of a crash, or no other signs of a crash? But crash or no, that's the weak spot on a frame of this design. I have a fillet brazed chromo Schwinn frame in my cellar with the same problem.

As for your proposed fix, I think the problem will be getting the post down there. With careful measuring, generous lubrication, and some patient pounding with a mallet, you might get it in the right spot. My fear is you'll get it stuck somewhere short of destination, and then where will you be.

PalmettoUpstate 11-14-12 07:20 AM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 14945412)
This. A Colson needs it's own thread. Stay the course boys! (and girls)

Yes I agree. However, putting it out there [as such] instead of here** - where doing so would be certain to glean comments and info both erudite and asinine - would have surely cut down on the information I needed to determine whether or not to purchase the bike in order to help fund my 3-speed addiction...

Please forgive my faux pas...

BTW, I will be taking delivery of the bike about 5:30 this evening.

**This is easily the best thread for the 3-speed hobby on BF. And it attracts the most knowledgeable people from what I have been able to determine

PalmettoUpstate 11-14-12 07:26 AM


Originally Posted by Velognome (Post 14945338)
The chainguard was a common design from say 1890's thru the late teens.

Rims look to be 28" steel clad wood which would put the bike squarely in the teens or 20's

Thanks for the excellent info. I'm excited to be scheduled to take delivery on the bike tonight and I will indeed start a "Colson thread" after I have it safely in my possession and can take a series of "before" pics.

Although some of the infantilesque purists will surely diss me for it, I plan to part the bike out in order to fund my 3-speed thing. Any further advice on maximizing my ebay net is certainly appreciated. :thumb:

CycleRail 11-14-12 08:01 AM

Great find!

Originally Posted by w1xq (Post 14945541)
Picked up this evening! In pretty good shape.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=283651


Velognome 11-14-12 09:06 AM


Originally Posted by rhm (Post 14946271)
Hmm, you mean no signs of a crash, or no other signs of a crash? But crash or no, that's the weak spot on a frame of this design. I have a fillet brazed chromo Schwinn frame in my cellar with the same problem.

As for your proposed fix, I think the problem will be getting the post down there. With careful measuring, generous lubrication, and some patient pounding with a mallet, you might get it in the right spot. My fear is you'll get it stuck somewhere short of destination, and then where will you be.

Yes, it is a weak point in the design. A very complete examination and measurements on a frame builders table confirmed that.

The plan for accurate placement of said seatpost is to invert the post so "TGF", taper goes first. Then a push rod marked to the correct depth will run the seatpost turned internal lug to it's final resting place. Lubrication should aid the insertion as well as a plan to fasten the frame via the lower down tube to the bench while the seattube is pulled backwards.

Nothing ventured nothing gained. Plus, I don't think weight was ever a consideration in the design or construction of the beast, so another 16oz would just be ballast anyway.

rhm 11-14-12 09:16 AM

Right.

If you have a trashed frame around, you might consider taking the top tube from that, strip the paint off, sand it real smooth, and see how far down into the bent seat tube it goes. Diameter should be correct. Use plenty of lubrication, of course. This has the advantage that you can pull it out again (maybe).


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