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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

PalmettoUpstate 03-05-13 09:25 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 15349640)
Hey Palmetto, I wasn't trying to disparage you or your admiration for 3 speeds.

Do you have any inside knowledge of these bikes? I see they came from a shop in Rochester.

No, sorry, I just happened upon this ebay posting when I took one of my regular lookabouts on there.

Last year I picked up a nice 23" Sports that was 100 miles from me for $50 by doing that...

RALEIGH_COMP 03-07-13 06:22 PM

post removed

jrecoi 03-07-13 06:45 PM

Yep, the only weird clamp is the stem clamp, which is 23.8mm.

yellowbarber 03-08-13 11:23 AM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by clubman (Post 15348243)
+1 That and the horrible cable dressing. He's also mounted the shifter improperly, not realizing it should read upside down. Still, nice pics for reference.

edit, oh crap, look what he did to the rear light. Nasty.

The auction listing make it sound like those bikes are in "as found" condition - meaning the pikey Royce Union horns and lighting atrocities were committed at the shop they came from, wouldn't be the first time.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=303140
on my frankenbike; a 1960ish S-A shifter. I don't understand how it's mounted incorrectly.

clubman 03-08-13 11:38 AM


Originally Posted by yellowbarber (Post 15361132)
The auction listing make it sound like those bikes are in "as found" condition - meaning the pikey Royce Union horns and lighting atrocities were committed at the shop they came from, wouldn't be the first time.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=303140
on my frankenbike; a 1960ish S-A shifter. I don't understand how it's mounted incorrectly.

SA triggers were generally mounted on the tops of roadster/sports bars but on the bottom of drop bar bends for club/road bikes. The SA triggers only came in one model that could be easily read by the rider. Generally, most triggers up to 1960 were below the bar friendly and everything after is above bar. Have a look at Martin Hanczyc's excellent reference page here. http://genetics.mgh.harvard.edu/hanc...satriggers.pdf
I question how built bikes could have been kept so mint over several decades. This seller has had more than a few of these.

Amesja 03-08-13 11:41 AM

Shifter position is a matter of taste.

I like it pretty much straight forward with a slight tilt down. Some folks like it further down like Yellowbarber. It seems most folks like it nearly straight up as that is, by far, the most popular way I see them mounted.

Even Sturmey-Archer has flip-flopped on this as some trigger shifters are printed with the words one way and others with the printing "upside-down."

With the newer plastic covers I've never seen one with the printing "Upside-Down" but I usually don't like that plastic cover and take it off the bikes I'm riding. It just gets broken anyhow as it gets brittle. If it isn't taken of it'll break anyhow if the bike is ridden daily IMHO. Might as well remove and save it. And since I keep my trigger shifter pointed down it looks funny with the words backwards since I can't read it in that position anyhow.

If someone can't figure out what gear they are in by the feel, or the position of the trigger they need to go back to pre-school and eating paste ;)

harpon 03-09-13 12:30 AM

5 Attachment(s)
Well- it's NOT English- but I can't believe how much my regressive passions are stirred over getting this stupid little Huffy 3 speed- I bought it for only 39.95 on ebay- except now I have to pick it up over a hundred miles away- and I can't wait!

I obbsessed over it for days- and the long distant drive holding me back as much as the total lack of real need and just another bike to find a place for-

but I just want to put my hands all over it and recondition and touch it up. I think it's mostly because way back when in '67- just like that song goes- there was a period of time I was deliberating between getting a three speed like this and getting a 10 speed bike- and I think the 3 speed I was looking at looked just like this, except in green I think- that same kind of matching seat-
anyway I went with a "British Racing green" Schwinn varsity that next spring and ended up finally raciing road for 14 years- and so I wonder now how my life might have been different if I had bought the three speed back then-

so I've never owned a 3 speed in my 59 years until now- and should have in my possesion in a few days:
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=303297http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=303298http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=303299http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=303300 http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=303301

It's not a real item like it's predessesor- actually made in England by Raleigh like this '58- but then it was only $39.95
Yet this '58 is a real good deal too if you're interested- and beautiful color- the front rack is a nice touch too-
Get it before The Midwives!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-1958...51001911694%26

PHT 03-09-13 04:19 AM


Originally Posted by harpon (Post 15364044)
Well- it's NOT English- but I can't believe how much my regressive passions are stirred over getting this stupid little Huffy 3 speed- I bought it for only 39.95 on ebay- except now I have to pick it up over a hundred miles away- and I can't wait!

It's always hard to tell in photos like these, but to my eyes, the fork could be bent. that front wheel is riding real close to the downtube and something about the fork blades seems wonky.

clasher 03-09-13 07:13 AM

Yeah that fork looks really bent in the first picture, I'd look for another fork before riding this.

harpon 03-09-13 10:08 PM


Originally Posted by PHT (Post 15364238)
It's always hard to tell in photos like these, but to my eyes, the fork could be bent. that front wheel is riding real close to the downtube and something about the fork blades seems wonky.

I queried him about this- and he assured me that the fork IS NOT bent- it's just the way it looks in the picture-

We had a straightener for that at one shop I worked at- made from a car jack, it fit between the BB and pushed on an axle in the fork- I wouldn't want to ride one much like that though- but it did work.

GamblerGORD53 03-09-13 11:14 PM

+1 The fork is totally mangled.

yellowbarber 03-10-13 01:15 AM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 15361202)
Generally, most triggers up to 1960 were below the bar friendly and everything after is above bar. Have a look at Martin Hanczyc's excellent reference page here. http://genetics.mgh.harvard.edu/hanc...satriggers.pdf

thanks for that link
ahh, yes I see now. I never really noticed that particular lineage. I have a little pile of 50s & 60s SA triggers. I'd have to go dig it out to double check, but I've got a '64 with 'above the bar' graphics (i.e. the 1966 example in the link), but the design is upside down...(I have early onset crs syndrome)

My Mother's old bike was a 50ish Rudge robins egg blue, loop frame affair with Bluemels & a 4 speed - it's 'below the bar' shifter drove me nuts that it was upsidedown. I spent hours as a kid staring at it, trying to figure out how the disassemble it and turn the plate right way up.

yellowbarber 03-10-13 01:18 AM


Originally Posted by GamblerGORD53 (Post 15366991)
+1 The fork is totally mangled.

+2

harpon 03-10-13 03:28 AM


Originally Posted by yellowbarber (Post 15367235)
+2

[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]HELLO,
THE FRONT FORK IS NOT BENT. ITS JUST THE WAY THE PICTURE LOOKS. I AM A RESIDENCE. WHAT DAY WOULD YOU LIKE TO PICK IT UP. THANKS.

[/TD]
[TD="width: 185"][TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]http://q.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gif[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Subject: Details about item: sent a message about VINTAGE HUFFY SPORTSMAN BICYCLE/BIKE COMPLETE 3 SPEED ON HANDGRIP


[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]Dear xxxx,

Is the front fork bent?
It looks like the wheel won't clear the frame.
Bikes shops used to sometimes have a device to straighten-

Are you a business or residence? I'd be coming from Jacksonville-
what time might be best for pick-up?

thank you


Here's the email exchange- I tend to believe it- the front tire is flat and the bike is leaning sorta crooked on the kickstand on the carpet- I have other pictures
where the fork does not look this way-

anyway- I'll see and report back in a day or two I guess.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

harpon 03-11-13 03:25 AM

3 Attachment(s)
Going to get it today- assured again on the phone the fork is not bent.

Anyway- I'm wondering now- has anyone much set up any three speeds with 700C wheels? The ISO for the 1 3/8" Raleighs for example is 590 and the 700's are 621 I think- so that's a difference of about an inch and a quarter in diameter- but then only 5/8" on the radius- so that's all the additional clearnce needed-

and if the tire were smaller- say a 25mm or 1 inch, you'd probably be cutting down the verticle profile of the tire by maybe an eighth of an inch- so probably any 3 speed wheel with a half inch of extra clear would take 700?

When I get it home today, I'm gonna slip a 700 on with about a 25 or 28 tire on it and see-

This is still a pig iron frame with a heavy one piece crank-

but if you had a classic Raleigh or triumph- or got one without wheels or damaged wheels- it might be more cost-effective to go to 700-

You could maybe even rebuild a wheel with a 700 rim. What is the normal cross pattern? 3 or 4? If it's four you might even cheat in the same spokes by lacing them 3 cross.

But if you had a good lugged light frame- and weren't worried about "VINTAGE" you could probably take a bunchj of weight off- using an alloy crank, and alloy bars and stem and seatpost, and with lighter wheels-

a 3 speed tricked out like that could really be quite a hot roll-:rolleyes:

have there been any in this thread- I haven't looked at it all- if there is- could you please post a link back to it?


a little Windows "paint" project to see what it might look like if I recondition some of it with blue anno instead of just chrome paint:
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=303692 :innocent:

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=303693http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=303694
Got this other seat which may be in better shape- or may repair the original- have to really see it first

oldroads 03-11-13 05:22 AM

Your local bike shop will have a tool called a "Little Brute" which is basically a modified car jack.
A couple pumps with it and the fork will be straight.

noglider 03-11-13 08:13 AM

The second picture reveals the manglitude better than the first does. For $40, you get more than $40 worth of parts, but don't ride on that fork unless you want to die.

BigPolishJimmy 03-11-13 08:57 AM

Front fork most certainly is bent. Sorry :( Someone probably had a bad braking experience. To see how a fork is bent, observe in the following pic how the green line traces the angle of the head tube: http://s48.beta.photobucket.com/user...F6296.jpg.html

I've made the same mistake. It's a big club

clubman 03-11-13 08:58 AM

Harpon, there are dozens of interesting conversions, restorations, renovations, bastardizations and more on this thread. Read away. Depending on your model, there can be a myriad of small details and "gotchas" to be dealt with when you change wheels, hubs, cranks, BB's etc.

Also, Sheldon Brown wrote a definitive treatise on the nature of Raleighs and 3 speeds and all IGH fans spend a lot of time there. It's the bible. http://sheldonbrown.com/english-3.html

Re your belief that the seller couldn't or wouldn't be wrong about the bent fork. It's often the case that sellers don't know better.

BigPolishJimmy 03-11-13 09:02 AM

Also, network with your local bike nuts, a replacement fork shouldn't be too much $$ or that hard to find. Ask about old broken bikes at garage sales, you might turn one up for free.

smontanaro 03-11-13 09:08 AM

And if the fork is bent there's at least a moderate chance there's some frame damage. Make sure the down tube and top tube are straight.

harpon 03-12-13 01:46 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Well, the fork IS slightly bent- so CAVEAT EMPTOR- "let the buyer beware"
But I don't blame the man who I twice queried- you really have to hold a straightedge up to it- it's back maybe an inch at the farthest point- there's no frame damage

I had a nice little road trip and even got to visit a Barnes and Nobles bookstore in Ocala, where, unlike metropolitan Jacksonville, there still is a major retail bookseller.

I'll probably try to have it straightened to preserve the look of the bike- otherwise I've got two other forks that would fit it- a tubular cruiser fork and a shock fork that I got out of the trash like the one on my motorized bike below-

the chrome has already really cleaned up- has anyone tried to clearcoat old chrome?
and the paint has proven to be not so plum colored, but more cherry metallic red
and the other saddle I got IS in much better shape- and even matches the cleaned up paint now.

The extra 700 QR road wheel will fit nicely on the front, and still clear the fender,
and it looks like lacing a 700 alloy rear would be the way to go if it was to see a lot of miles-
and you'd have a lightweight set of wheels that roll much better

anyway, yeah, just a bit annoying about the fork, and you told me so!


First and latest incarnation of the Micargi cruiser and shock fork
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=304081http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=304082

Velognome 03-12-13 03:43 PM

:wtf: And....that pretty much sums it up.

PalmettoUpstate 03-12-13 06:19 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 15371595)
Harpon, there are dozens of interesting conversions, restorations, renovations, bastardizations and more on this thread. Read away. Depending on your model, there can be a myriad of small details and "gotchas" to be dealt with when you change wheels, hubs, cranks, BB's etc.

Also, Sheldon Brown wrote a definitive treatise on the nature of Raleighs and 3 speeds and all IGH fans spend a lot of time there. It's the bible. http://sheldonbrown.com/english-3.html

Re your belief that the seller couldn't or wouldn't be wrong about the bent fork. It's often the case that sellers don't know better.

Truer words never spoken.

Key to this entire conversation is that one had better get a good physics eye about this stuff - or pay in dineros or frauds - or, worse still, get great bodily injury from not paying attention...

harpon 03-13-13 03:45 AM

2 Attachment(s)
So the Huffy is apparently a 1969 model, as gleaned from information on an internet site- the first solitary number before two letters being the year of manufacturer- the "9" then I believe has to be '69- It IS like the one I contemplated getting before my '68 Varsity:
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=304189http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=304190
and I doubt '59- not sure when they quit doing the Nottingham import- but it's definitely not a BMI sticker '70's era either- the large 48 sproket is too quality for the '70's, even though I'll probably be swapping it out for a smaller one- probably the gold "low rider" 36 I have already in the drawer.

Granny needs her gear!

So it's a 1969 and even STP red like Mario Andretti's winning Indianapolis car from that same year- Mario completely totaled his main car before quals, in what I call the start of "The Disintigrating Car Era", and then climbed in his back-up car and won Andy Granetelli his first 500 after failing with the Chapman Lotus and turbines. And I'm from Indianpolis, so la dee da, la dee da.

I've ordered a similar used replacement fork from ebay for under $20, but more common sense might've been to use the tubular cruiser fork, which in fact is prabably really stronger, albeit a shade heavier- I still may try to get this one straightened tho.

I have one question: Is anyone still manufacturing and selling three speeds?
And are they now perhaps with 700 C wheels? (ooops, TWO questions!)

I think the 700's are the way to go- they certainly FIT in the frame-
and you can have lighter alloy wheels and a greater choice of tires and widths-
The front one I've put on sure makes the bike lighter! But the narrow fork is giving some bugs for the quick release.
The tubular cruise fork would actually work better with most hubs, because the drop outs are wider.
I'm thinking about relacing the back one someday, but not now a high priority.

Amesja 03-13-13 06:19 AM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 15371595)
Re your belief that the seller couldn't or wouldn't be wrong about the bent fork. It's often the case that sellers don't know better.

I think you are right. Most folks wouldn't know a bent fork from a salad fork. Sellers really do NOT know better. If it isn't sticking out to the side it isn't bent!

Look at all the photos of forks installed backwards. Sellers just do not know better.

I've seen bikes with bent frames and even bent cranks where the sellers insist they didn't know. I think what happens sometimes with bikes like these is they get hit in the garage by their car, maybe pressed against the back wall, and they never realize it and wouldn't know how to recognize a slight misalignment.

noglider 03-14-13 09:57 AM


Originally Posted by harpon (Post 15380119)
I have one question: Is anyone still manufacturing and selling three speeds?
And are they now perhaps with 700 C wheels? (ooops, TWO questions!)

I don't know how you could find an answer to that question.

Salubrious 03-14-13 12:54 PM

Pashley makes a wonderful looking machine:

http://www.pashley.co.uk/products/guvnor-3-speed.html

tjkwood 03-14-13 05:54 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 15386515)
Pashley makes a wonderful looking machine:

http://www.pashley.co.uk/products/guvnor-3-speed.html

I'm currently in the process of arranging an internship with them... so excited!

conradpdx 03-21-13 09:19 PM

Well my new 3 speed isn't English (though the IGH is and even labeled as made in England still) it's a 1987 Peugeot P20 folder. It's project bike for sure, but here's what I'm starting with.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-P...112942_173.jpg

To make up for tarnishing this thread with the Italian made, French labeled, just barely vintage bike I'll add a few more recent images of my main ride. My 71 Superbe.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-l...-19-51_966.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-D...-20-40_208.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-1...-23-54_739.jpg

If I ever posted photos of it before, the old ones don't include the Dyno hub and lights/pump/though not original tool bag, or B-17. Got a new chainwheel (this one was fixed with a rather large weld) and a Miller 2 bulb headlight waiting for installation currently. At that point I'll re-run the dyno wires.


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