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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

Velognome 05-12-11 07:48 AM

You didn't "break in" that's what this thread is all about. Your machine is lovely and we all appeciate you posting the picks. Hastfully removing even a "repaint" is not a good idea. Once it's gone, it's gone. Take your time to be sure to preserve what is good.

Here's a thread on saving paint jobs: http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...t=golden+arrow

Plus ftwelder did a restore on a simular Raleigh a few months back and preserved a paint job many of use would have given up on. (I'll see if I can find the thread for you)

rhm 05-12-11 07:50 AM


Originally Posted by Velognome (Post 12631911)
You didn't "break in" that's what this thread is all about. Your machine is lovely and we all appeciate you posting the picks. Hastfully removing even a "repaint" is not a good idea. Once it's gone, it's gone. Take your time to be sure to preserve what is good.

+1. That's a beautiful bike. You might want to start a thread about it, just to make sure everyone sees it; there are at least a couple other guys here who have (or used to have) one of those.

Mexican Street Dog 05-12-11 06:54 PM

Thanks guys
It is a great bike. I'm stoked that I found it. so two questions, one- what tires would look "correct" and two- what are your opinions on levels of restoration?

I think I'll paint it hot pink and get some lime green Velocity rims. Easy bud, I'm joking, don't spit coffee all over your computer. But no, I dont have the time, money or inclination to do a massive amt of work on it. I appreciate the advice to not be hasty, I might even go finish my Cannondale M500 build befor I get into this.

Thanks for the feedback,
Later
Carl

Amesja 05-12-11 07:12 PM

I would start by "cleaning" it with scratch remover. Sometimes that'll remove cheesy paint laid over the factory stuff. The factory paint is pretty hard and scratch remover will often cut down through the oxidized top layer and a little elbow grease will reward you with a shiny smooth finish and any chips or scratches will not look bad as giving it a patina with character.

If nothing else I'd pull the hubs, bb, and headset apart and regrease and put in new bearings. New brake shoes and oil the cables. If the cables are bad then put in new ones but try and save the housings. A new set of tires will make it ride so much better and it won't strand you or dump you in traffic if the old carcases blow out unexpectedly. That'd be the minimum I'd do -but you don't have to do it all at once.

Mexican Street Dog 05-12-11 08:10 PM

velognome, thanks for the thread about saving paint jobs, now I'm totally conflicted. So I'm going to decide what to do, do it, and not tell anyone so I don't get flamed.

Also what is scratch remover? And bronze wool to take the rust off the chrome? Then Brasso or what?

I have all day off tomorrow! Ha, I'll work on it then. I can't believe how lucky to find a bike like this. At a bike swap. For $40.

Thanks for the feedback folks, keep it coming!

Amesja 05-12-11 08:50 PM

There are different brands of scratch remover -some folks swear by Mcguires Scratch-X but I think that Mother's is just as good and a great deal cheaper. You can usually pick it up for $6-8 bucks at your local auto one-stop place like Pep Boys or AutoZone.

The stuff is just magic. Just put it on an old T-shirt and rub on the painted parts you want to clean up. It even works on chrome too although I use Oxalic Acid (wood bleach) in a weak solution that makes chrome parts rust-free the easy way. Do a search for Oxalic Acid here on BikeForums and you'll find out all about it.

Sixty Fiver 05-12-11 10:57 PM


Originally Posted by Amesja (Post 12631638)
I"m assuming these are steel rims? Even so, I bet they were worth something. I need to start dumpster-diving behind bike shops...

These are double walled and fully eyeletted alloy rims... actually worth a bunch since they are A: Mavic and B: in a very uncommon size.

Our shop is 30 miles out in the country so one of the reasons there is so much old stuff kicking around is because you'd have to haul it out yourself and there is a lot of acreage surrounding things in which to stash parts that are not getting used.

Sixty Fiver 05-12-11 11:04 PM

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5070/...eee49a3d0f.jpg

Just... :love:

rpf 05-13-11 02:20 AM

I really like the Hercules, i have a few of those in the collection myself.

The rack looks extremely elegant by the way, great job !

rpf 05-13-11 02:26 AM


Originally Posted by sekaijin (Post 12509060)
I finally took my restored Hercules out for spring!

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u...s/IMG_9416.jpg

Could I trouble you for some information on the manufacturer of those beautiful grips please ?

Amesja 05-13-11 05:31 AM

Wow. CR18's run for $30+ so those Mavics must be worth at least as much. I bet they aren't nearly as skinny as the CR18's either. They are probably worth upwards of $50/each and would have sold for that on ebay I would think. You win the "saved from the dump" award for the year IMHO.

Sixty Fiver 05-13-11 07:50 AM


Originally Posted by Amesja (Post 12636845)
Wow. CR18's run for $30+ so those Mavics must be worth at least as much. I bet they aren't nearly as skinny as the CR18's either. They are probably worth upwards of $50/each and would have sold for that on ebay I would think. You win the "saved from the dump" award for the year IMHO.

Took some pics but left my camera out at the shop... will be heading back out today or tomorrow.

Mexican Street Dog 05-13-11 08:15 AM

Hey all,
More questions, The serial number on the seat lug area is 154336. In the charts on Sheldon Brown's site the closest I could find was for 1906. Six digits no letters. There are pics of the serial number here

http://www.flickr.com/photos/carl_br...n/photostream/

Does this look right? It looks awful rough to me but ?

The SA hub says K6 which I gather is 1936.
So.. any ideas, comments?

Thanks

Mexican Street Dog 05-13-11 04:02 PM

Hello all, I seem to have lost a post somewhere, phooey.
Did I post about the funkiness of the serial number? It is 154336 no letters. The closest number I could find on Sheldon Brown site (WOW!!) put it in 1906. Thats not right. Pics of the serial number are here

http://www.flickr.com/photos/carl_br...n/photostream/

does that look right to you all? I've no idea how it should look but that looks awful rough to me.

So I took the cranks off and the bottom bracket out and everything looks pretty good, someone banged up the lockring trying to hammer out the driveside cotter but oh well. I haven't got the stem yet, there's a post on Oldroads about it though.

I got some scratch remover and it works pretty good. There looks to be some blue paint on the headtube around the badge. For the most part the paint looks OK, I don't know where the old paint ends and the new paint begins. I don't think they repainted the whole thing but the overpaint is really bad, drippy and just bad.

I think it has been repaired, there is some chunky brazing on the seatstay bridge. So the bike is pretty rough, thats OK. I'll figure out the depths as I go.

Thanks all for the advice to slow down on the repaint, I may still but it will be a considered move now. I'll post more photos soon.

Speaking of which, how does one post photos to this forum? I put mine on flickr but it would be better to have them right here.

Thanks folks

Carl

Amesja 05-13-11 04:14 PM

Looks like you got it down to the black fairly well. The bike has quite the patina -especially around the serial number. Maybe there is another line above that number that contained the letters but it got ground/sanded off on one of the repaints.

Posting pics here is fairly easy although I don't know about flickr. I use picasa from google and just left click on my hosted picture and click on "copy image URL" and then paste that into the little box that pops up after I click on the "Insert Image" button here under the URL box. Bada-bing! It works. You might have to change some of your privacy/right-protect settings at flickr. I used to use flickr but they ticked me off since they have a maximum image host number that has nothing to do with the actual SIZE of the image. Picasa is free and unlimited as long as the image is under 800px or something like that.

Mexican Street Dog 05-17-11 05:53 AM

Hey folks, More about my Golden Arrow.
I made a spanner wrench to remove the top nut from the steerer tu, ah wait, fork column, it worked great. My co-worker, when I told him I was making a wrench said "but...hacksawing is hard.". I think I could have taken it off by hand if I'd tried hard enough. The head clip is being somewhat recalcitrant but I think it'll come. I am taking my time so I don't get carried away and break something. So far though everything has been coming very smoothly, I think this machine has been kept lubed for its 75 year life.
I feel pretty lucky to have stumbled across a bike like this and I sure wonder what it was doing in Bangor, Maine.
I think that for now I am going to leave the paint alone. I don't think I'm going to try too hard to get the repaint off, at this time anyway.. How ever I wonder about taking the repaint off the stem and seatpost, I'm pretty sure they are chrome underneath, you can see it through the chips.

Slowly slowly catchee monkey.
Later, Carl

fender76 05-17-11 06:47 AM

All of that chrome may have been blacked out during wartime.
You may want to leave it.

My '36 Tourist has most parts blacked out by the factory - maybe your original owner did his/her own version?

Also, Is there a date on the hub? What model is it? Does it say patent pending?
You may want to start a separate thread for it.

Nice bike by the way.

Mexican Street Dog 05-17-11 11:29 AM

Jason, Thanks for your reply, it is a K hub, which I gather is a wide range hub? K-6 for 1936.

I have started a thread about this bike,

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...1#post12654981

I hope folks will check in there from time to time.

Thanks, Carl

yoder 05-17-11 12:23 PM

1971 Raleigh Sports
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3338/...126c55d3_z.jpg

Sixty Fiver 05-17-11 06:26 PM

1975 Raleigh Sports... removed the auto adjusters on the brakes and replaced the steel front rim with one of those Mavic rims I scored the other day.

:)

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikepics/bluesports2.JPG

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikep...ortsmavic1.JPG

The back wheel is a little lumpy so will rebuild that one tomorrow.

Someone will appreciate this bike when I am done with it and just have to find a rear reflector.

Oh... the bike was found in a dumpster last fall and has just been taking up space in the shop.

BigPolishJimmy 05-18-11 12:08 PM

This thread has given me English 3-speed fever I know I have 3 of them already, but none in the right size except for the women's Raleigh. I can stand it no longer, I have cast a few lines out and the nibbles are starting to come in. All I need is a good frame & fork, I have the parts to build from there. Dang you 3-speed havers, dang you all to heck. You can see it in my mountain bike, it really just wants to be an old english roadster.

LuckyChow99 05-18-11 12:48 PM


Originally Posted by BigPolishJimmy (Post 12659910)
This thread has given me English 3-speed fever I know I have 3 of them already, but none in the right size except for the women's Raleigh. I can stand it no longer, I have cast a few lines out and the nibbles are starting to come in. All I need is a good frame & fork, I have the parts to build from there. Dang you 3-speed havers, dang you all to heck. You can see it in my mountain bike, it really just wants to be an old english roadster.

3 speed-itis is a terrible diasease to contract. You have my sincerest sympathy. It has taken down many mountain bikes, way before their time. Be careful you don't give it to the rest of the family, as it is fairly contageous. Between the Red Coats and Raleigh's, those Brits have really taken their toll on this country.

Please excuse me now. My tea and biscuit is waiting. :>)

noglider 05-18-11 01:57 PM

I saw a very nice Hercules for sale on New Jersey craigslist last night. Men's model, terrific condition (by the picture), and only $125. But I can't make a profit on that, and I certainly don't need another.

BigPolishJimmy 05-18-11 02:36 PM

I swear if I strike out trying to find an affordable large men's frame i'm going to build a side car for my lady sports and be done with it.

My bike funds are non-existent at the moment, so I need to find the basket case to rescue, but that suits me fine. I'd love a Hercules after seeing the beautiful ones posted here, but a buck twenty five + shipping is out of my reach. I'm not saying it's not worth it, just not in my immediate future.

... perhaps I really don't need 3 fujis and 6 other bikes ... wait.. what am I saying?

noglider 05-18-11 02:41 PM

What are you looking for, Jimmy? I suppose a tall bike, to start with ...

BigPolishJimmy 05-18-11 02:57 PM

I'll be happy with a large framed men's sports for now. Ultimately I drool over the DL1 but I really don't see that happening soon, a large frame sports on the other hand should turn up soon enough.

Currently I have a 21" Men's Raleigh Sports, and a 21" Men's Armstrong and a 23" Raleigh Lady Sports, plus 2-21" Free Spirits and a couple of 21" huffys for parts. So I'm well stocked with smaller bike for parts, just waiting for the right opportunity. The comfort I've managed to obtain in setting up my mtn bike roadster style has made it clear. It's just a matter of time before I join in with a bike I can actually ride. I should be able to get by on a 23" frame with a tall stem, but a 25" frame would be best.

This thread has taken me from just giving old 3-speeds a second glance, to strait up coveting the style, ride, and utility of these beautiful machines. It's one of my favorite threads on the board.

noglider 05-18-11 04:07 PM

It's one of my favorites, too!

And now my Rudge has become my daily rider. It's so incredibly reliable, and I am getting the hang of how to ride it. I can't explain it. It's a combination of where to put my weight and how hard to pedal and in which part of the stroke. I exert more force at a higher point of the stroke than on modern bikes. I've learned to use the handling characteristics to make very tight turns at high speed. And I'm getting used to the widely spaced gears. It's taken time to learn these things, and I love it. One day, I'll put on alloy rims, but right now, I'm content with the steel. Braking is excellent in the dry. I manage to survive in the wet by riding cautiously.

I tried a DL-1 and didn't like it. I'm sure that would take learning, too, but it's really slow in both acceleration and turning. I can see, comparing the models, why the Sports has its name. The term applies the same way "sports car" applies to those machines.

You should learn how to use Google Alerts. I get some really good craigslist and ebay listings that way.

Amesja 05-18-11 05:08 PM


Originally Posted by BigPolishJimmy (Post 12659910)
This thread has given me English 3-speed fever I know I have 3 of them already, but none in the right size except for the women's Raleigh. I can stand it no longer, I have cast a few lines out and the nibbles are starting to come in. All I need is a good frame & fork, I have the parts to build from there. Dang you 3-speed havers, dang you all to heck. You can see it in my mountain bike, it really just wants to be an old english roadster.

I have 3 of them in my living room right now...

Mexican Street Dog 05-18-11 06:24 PM

I wish I could get them all back. I didn't know what they were, I just knew they were old rusted junk. There is a special place for ignoramuses like me. The junk man brings bikes to my house on the way to the scrapyard, I come home from work and there is a bike or two in the driveway. I took some parts off them and fixed others up and sent all the rusty old junk back with him to the scrap yard. WAHHH Boohoo. But I still have a ladies Sports that fits my wife and my Golden Arrow. I imagine more will be along. A his and hers Bianchis, one a five speed and one a three speed, I'm guessing from the really early '70s, fenders, chrome white vinyl saddles. Ugh. They were rusty as anything but now that I know what can be done....
Oh well, I hope that more come along.

The local Brit motorcycle enthusiast brought by a '40s ladies Sports frame bad dent in the top tube, a front wheel, a rear wheel with an SA that I haven't dated yet and a DynoHub front wheel. Awesome! I'm not worthy. The shocker was a '64 Rudge Mustang, SA three speed coaster, and a twist shift!!!
Pictures will go up tomorrow. Tonight I am POOCHED.

I never meant to get into these freakin three speeds either, but now, its all over. Its all over for me. Let this be a lesson to you young man, just walk on by, walk on by.

auchencrow 05-18-11 07:15 PM

I just picked up this Raleigh this evening (rather inexpensively, but not impulsively - It had been sitting for days on CL with a grainy photo and I finally succumbed, in part due to this infectious thread).

There are a few things awry with it: I.e.;
  • The fork is in good condition and chromed, but not painted. (Easy fix).
  • It is missing the rear reflector, SA pulley by the seat post, and it has old Schwinn pedals and grips instead of the originals.
  • It has an old patent pending Thompson kickstand. I don't know if it is original or not.
  • I suspect the lamp is unoriginal also, since it is a 6v unit.
  • The 3-speed bar mounted shifter is surely unoriginal - and possibly the Old Brooks sprung mattress-style saddle as well.
  • -And the Seat clamp is on backwards!

It was purported to be a 60's model, but I doubt that now, because of the following peculiarities:
  • S-6 tires
  • Unmarked steel Raleigh type rims, galvanized spokes.
  • "Patent Pending" front Dynohub (both lights work)
  • No "Raleigh lettering on the frame or chain guard - yet I am sure is NOT a repaint: It does have the fine gold pin-striping everywhere.
  • Heron chain-ring bolted to the crank arm.
  • No braze-on for the missing pulley
  • Old style stem - CLAMPED on (Not quill type).
  • Brake cables soldered both ends. (How do I replace these?)
  • NO Date on the SA "AW-8" rear hub.
  • Big wing-nuts at all 4 corners.
  • Witness from a 2nd TT mounted clamp (TT shifter?)

The paint is in pretty decent shape overall, but (not surprisingly) shifting is not so swift for lack of a pulley.

- Can someone date this for me? I assume it is a Superbe not a Sports but I can't even be sure about that.
I am no expert when it comes to three speeds.


http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...xxBlack009.jpg


http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...xxBlack011.jpg


http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...xxBlack012.jpg


http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...xxBlack014.jpg


http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...xxBlack017.jpg


http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...xxBlack008.jpg


http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...xxBlack004.jpg


http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...xxBlack007.jpg


http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...xxBlack006.jpg


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