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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

clubman 10-14-18 09:46 AM


Originally Posted by tigervw78 (Post 20615568)
The 60's I picked up, the bottom pump peg is bent. Is it possible to straighten without breaking? Also, are there any leads on pumps?

Thanks again for the help!

The steel is quite soft so bend it back slowly and you should be fine. Repro and original pumps aren't uncommon. The're really just for show since they don't work well and pop off the frame if sized incorrectly.

You asked about brakes and pads earlier. I find the older Raleigh calipers to be made of stern stuff so they can work well when set up. Keep your rims trued and brake tracks clean. Your pads should be filed or sanded occasionally. Experiment with the toe-in of the caliper arms and play around with your cable adjusters. There's a sweet spot where everything comes together, even with original parts.

JaccoW 10-14-18 09:50 AM

Gotta love (modern day) Sturmey Archer.

I'm giving the rusted pulleys I got off eBay a WD40 bath (Thanks @PeterLYoung) this week but the first one was succesfully dismantled and is ready for polishing.

Turns out the modern day cable guide pulleys are the exact same size (and have a brass axle to boot)!
http://i.imgur.com/yHgb3wXh.jpg

I might get away with just polishing the wheel itself.

PeterLYoung 10-14-18 11:43 AM


Originally Posted by JaccoW (Post 20615591)
Gotta love (modern day) Sturmey Archer.

I'm giving the rusted pulleys I got off eBay a WD40 bath (Thanks @PeterLYoung) this week but the first one was succesfully dismantled and is ready for polishing.

Turns out the modern day cable guide pulleys are the exact same size (and have a brass axle to boot)!
http://i.imgur.com/yHgb3wXh.jpg

I might get away with just polishing the wheel itself.

I posted earlier that soaking rusty components in White Vinegar for 3/4 days removes the rust, just clean up with a brass/copper bristle wire brush they then look like new. I have just used this process on all the small components, nuts & bolts for my 1936 BSA Roadster and they came up like new. These were originally painted parts so they were then ready for spraying with etch primer and a couple of coats of black gloss. They all look like new parts even though they are 80+ years old. Have to say the steel was much better then and did not corrode so badly.

BigChief 10-14-18 03:34 PM

The earlier cable guides with the 2 piece bands were finished in gun barrel bluing. Sometime around 1950, SA changed to a dull gray finish. There were many different types of metal finishing and I'm not sure exactly the type, but it's similar to Parkerizing or Bonderizing. They used this same finish on the trigger shifter cases. The gun blued parts can be stripped of rust, polished and sent out to be hot blued at any gun shop. When restoring the gray finish I leave the rust in place. Maybe smooth it off a bit if it's scaley and burnish in some Brownells Action Magic dry lubricant. After a while it darkens and you would never know it wasn't the original finish.

A gun blued cable guide, cable stop and shifter
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4380/...7998b130_h.jpg
SA 38-48 by Billy Bones, on Flickr

Gray finished guide
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ce5b10c161.jpg
Me using Action Magic on a frame mounted guide
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2d4adfdc8e.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0a708cb039.jpg

oldveloman 10-15-18 03:10 AM


Originally Posted by PeterLYoung (Post 20610232)
I found this 1936 BSA Roadster at an auction, It has BSA Three Speed plus Hub Brakes Front & Rear. It is Model 602DX Serial Number WD29996 and cost £6-12/6d when new. I have not found another when searching on-line so far. I also cannot find a spare 3Speed BSA Rear Hub with combined Hub Brake for spares though at present all works OK. I have now stripped it all completely and am rebuilding it after repainting as paintwork was very poor as it had been badly hand painted by a previous owner. Mechanically it was in good shape and all components just needed cleaning, de rusting and repainting. Frame is being powder coated and I have new transfers.
Hope to have it all finished and back on the road for next summer.

Hi Peter,
That' s a very nice find :love:

I have a 1954 BSA Model 900E Roadster with Stirrup brakes front and rear and the normal BSA 3-speed hub.
It is my favourite ride and is used for the longer journeys. The BSA 3-speed is very robust and is a licence built Sturmey Archer hub.
Below are some links to the Sturmey Acher pages:

Sturmey-Archer Heritage :: History

Sturmey-Archer Heritage :: History

Mine has the postwar “snap-control" trigger and the original rubber BSA grips.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...fb04fd319b.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...014a700aac.jpg

Enjoy it!

Peter

thumpism 10-15-18 05:02 AM

Raleigh 3-speed, but not your ordinary Raleigh 3-speed.

https://richmond.craigslist.org/bik/...718738260.html

Raleigh chopper 3 speed bicycle - $180 (Richmond)



https://images.craigslist.org/00v0v_...o5_600x450.jpg



bicycle type: kids
frame size: not sure
wheel size: 16 in

Our chopper is for sale, it's in great working order my son has had hours of fun on his chopper, sadly he's now out grown it. We are now passing along the opportunity for the sale of the Chopper to the next cool kid on the block when you ride this bike you will be the coolest kid in the neighborhood. After many countless hours of fun my son has had on his Chopper, we hope your child will encounter as many enjoyable memories.Rear back break not working,but an easy fix. After doing our research on Ebay most choppers on eBay are a minimum starting price of $350.00. We are asking only $180.00 for our Chopper bike. This will be a cash only transaction. Contact Christine cell/text show contact info
Many thanks for reading.

PeterLYoung 10-15-18 05:44 AM

BSA Three Speed Hubs
 

Originally Posted by oldveloman (Post 20616664)
Hi Peter,
That' s a very nice find :love:

I have a 1954 BSA Model 900E Roadster with Stirrup brakes front and rear and the normal BSA 3-speed hub.
It is my favourite ride and is used for the longer journeys. The BSA 3-speed is very robust and is a licence built Sturmey Archer hub.
Below are some links to the Sturmey Acher pages:

Sturmey-Archer Heritage :: History

Sturmey-Archer Heritage :: History

Mine has the postwar “snap-control" trigger and the original rubber BSA grips.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...fb04fd319b.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...014a700aac.jpg

Enjoy it!

Peter

I have been looking on the Veteran Cycle Club Website and found some clarification of how the BSA Three Speed came into being and I Quote the VCC & Tony Hadland below:-
--------------------------------------------------------------------Quote
By 1907 BSA were desperate to produce a three-speed hub gear. They had merged with Eadie, makers of the Fagan two-speed and a two-speed coaster brake, early in 1907. Towards the end of that year they acquired the rights of the Hub Two-Speed Gear Company. BSA therefore had the rights to produce no less than three two-speed hubs: the Fagan (Eadie), the Hub and their own Mark II hub. In addition, they had the rights to the Eadie Two-Speed coaster. But demand for two-speeds was now much reduced, whereas the market for three-speeds was almost insatiable. The Hub Company had patented a three-speed in 1903 (#22,306) but nothing commercial seems to have come of it. BSA therefore approached the Three-Speed Gear Syndicate requesting permission to build the Sturmey-Archer three-speed under license. According to Henry Sturmey, writing in 1924, the Syndicate were unable to cope with demand in 1907 and therefore granted a license to BSA.
The Sturmey-Archer Story by Tony Hadland
The Fagan two-speed hub had been introduced at the 1903 Stanley Show for the 1904 season, and fitted as standard on the Royal Enfield Modele Riche, while a coaster brake was fitted to the ‘Royal Enfield’ and ‘Model B.’ BSA at this time only sold components, not complete bicycles, but their order books were full, and their bikes in knock-down form were in much demand from abroad, particularly Australia. Motorcycle builders favoured BSA bicycles, in particular their spring-frame models. BSA were about to expand their business: with the success of the motorcycle market, by 1910 they had also re-commenced full-scale cycle production. This was why it was essential for them to be able to fully control the supply of three-speed hubs.
------------------------------------------------------------------Unquote
So it is now clear to me that BSA did not design their three speed hub but I still need to determine the SA version I have, though it looks very much like the 'X' version copied from the SA History site and it has the same very fine threaded gear change spindle that is so easy to break if has corroded together.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2dfd11ffe9.png

BigChief 10-15-18 05:55 AM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 20616717)
Raleigh 3-speed, but not your ordinary Raleigh 3-speed.

https://richmond.craigslist.org/bik/...718738260.html

Raleigh chopper 3 speed bicycle - $180 (Richmond)



https://images.craigslist.org/00v0v_...o5_600x450.jpg



bicycle type: kids
frame size: not sure
wheel size: 16 in

Our chopper is for sale, it's in great working order my son has had hours of fun on his chopper, sadly he's now out grown it. We are now passing along the opportunity for the sale of the Chopper to the next cool kid on the block when you ride this bike you will be the coolest kid in the neighborhood. After many countless hours of fun my son has had on his Chopper, we hope your child will encounter as many enjoyable memories.Rear back break not working,but an easy fix. After doing our research on Ebay most choppers on eBay are a minimum starting price of $350.00. We are asking only $180.00 for our Chopper bike. This will be a cash only transaction. Contact Christine cell/text show contact info
Many thanks for reading.

Not the $350 Chopper you see on eBay. This isn't an English Raleigh. Much more recent, made in Asia somewhere.

PeterLYoung 10-15-18 06:32 AM


Originally Posted by PeterLYoung (Post 20610232)
I found this 1936 BSA Roadster at an auction, It has BSA Three Speed plus Hub Brakes Front & Rear. It is Model 602DX Serial Number WD29996 and cost £6-12/6d when new. I have not found another when searching on-line so far. I also cannot find a spare 3Speed BSA Rear Hub with combined Hub Brake for spares though at present all works OK. I have now stripped it all completely and am rebuilding it after repainting as paintwork was very poor as it had been badly hand painted by a previous owner. Mechanically it was in good shape and all components just needed cleaning, de rusting and repainting. Frame is being powder coated and I have new transfers.
Hope to have it all finished and back on the road for next summer.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2f28018533.png


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c79af02872.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a084c4f36c.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...41e513ad38.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...da185a0978.jpg

Just arrived in post today a BSA 3 Speed Hub plus a NOS BSA Hub Drive Piece, still has some greaseproof paper on it.

Now I can experiment with dismantling the hub plus have spare parts in case of repair or loss of components:-

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2f0ba0a4e9.png

Managed to unscrew the Gear Change Spindle OK so thats a good sign!!!

adventurepdx 10-15-18 09:25 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20615345)
24T seems too big a cog to me. It would make 1st so low that I doubt you'd even use it.
I've been happy with a 20T or 22T swap.
let us know your experience with the 24T.

"So low"? :rolleyes:
Well, maybe for pretty flat Toronto...
I have a 23T cog for both my three speeds, and appreciate the low for the varied topography of Portland. I don't care too much about the overdrive, I want something that'll get me up the hills.

BigChief 10-15-18 10:22 PM


Originally Posted by PeterLYoung (Post 20616746)
I have been looking on the Veteran Cycle Club Website and found some clarification of how the BSA Three Speed came into being and I Quote the VCC & Tony Hadland below:-
--------------------------------------------------------------------Quote
By 1907 BSA were desperate to produce a three-speed hub gear. They had merged with Eadie, makers of the Fagan two-speed and a two-speed coaster brake, early in 1907. Towards the end of that year they acquired the rights of the Hub Two-Speed Gear Company. BSA therefore had the rights to produce no less than three two-speed hubs: the Fagan (Eadie), the Hub and their own Mark II hub. In addition, they had the rights to the Eadie Two-Speed coaster. But demand for two-speeds was now much reduced, whereas the market for three-speeds was almost insatiable. The Hub Company had patented a three-speed in 1903 (#22,306) but nothing commercial seems to have come of it. BSA therefore approached the Three-Speed Gear Syndicate requesting permission to build the Sturmey-Archer three-speed under license. According to Henry Sturmey, writing in 1924, the Syndicate were unable to cope with demand in 1907 and therefore granted a license to BSA.
The Sturmey-Archer Story by Tony Hadland
The Fagan two-speed hub had been introduced at the 1903 Stanley Show for the 1904 season, and fitted as standard on the Royal Enfield Modele Riche, while a coaster brake was fitted to the ‘Royal Enfield’ and ‘Model B.’ BSA at this time only sold components, not complete bicycles, but their order books were full, and their bikes in knock-down form were in much demand from abroad, particularly Australia. Motorcycle builders favoured BSA bicycles, in particular their spring-frame models. BSA were about to expand their business: with the success of the motorcycle market, by 1910 they had also re-commenced full-scale cycle production. This was why it was essential for them to be able to fully control the supply of three-speed hubs.
------------------------------------------------------------------Unquote
So it is now clear to me that BSA did not design their three speed hub but I still need to determine the SA version I have, though it looks very much like the 'X' version copied from the SA History site and it has the same very fine threaded gear change spindle that is so easy to break if has corroded together.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2dfd11ffe9.png

I love this bike. Thanks for sharing your research. It's fun to learn new things. Please post pics of the teardown if you have a chance. I'd like to see more of this bike.

PeterLYoung 10-16-18 01:40 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20618441)
I love this bike. Thanks for sharing your research. It's fun to learn new things. Please post pics of the teardown if you have a chance. I'd like to see more of this bike.

1936 BSA Roadster Serial Number WD29996
Here are a few more photos of parts of the bike only one taken of parts under restoration showing use of Clothes Rail and Garden Wire to respray small parts, an approach that works very well.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b86cbd2c83.jpg

Found the Bike Serial Number stamped on Saddle Lug, had to file off paint to make visible.


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7f1b75892d.jpg

Original BSA Gear Changer with Lucas Challis Bell behind.


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ac43801ec8.jpg

Lucas Challis Bell.


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8a2ebf7ee7.jpg

Front BSA Brake Hub, have a similar Sturmey Archer one but design is different.


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...36edd17bb8.jpg

Original Saddle, very fragile so I am restoring a Brooks Leather B66 which will be more practical. It was used on similar bikes at the time.


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...70ae420473.jpg

Combined BSA Three Speed & Hub Brake, seems to be a rare item, have not found one on the Web yet.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a213d84d1c.jpg

Clothes Rail and Garden Wire are great for spraying small items, Mudguards on trestle in front.

gster 10-16-18 04:24 AM


Originally Posted by adventurepdx (Post 20618381)
"So low"? :rolleyes:
Well, maybe for pretty flat Toronto...
I have a 23T cog for both my three speeds, and appreciate the low for the varied topography of Portland. I don't care too much about the overdrive, I want something that'll get me up the hills.

Toronto is pretty flat travelling crosstown (east-west) but going north is a steady incline.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...dde8a87d3d.png

clubman 10-16-18 07:10 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20618594)
Toronto is pretty flat travelling crosstown (east-west) but going north is a steady incline.

Cool map. Riding to uptown TO from the lake was always a good workout. The Don Valley ravine was my fave ride north. All parkland. You just had to stand and go hard to get out of the vally at Eglinton and Leslie for about 15 minutes.

clubman 10-16-18 08:43 AM

It's a stock 19" camelback frame. In older days they were often called Colts but were also released with other offbrand names.

adventurepdx 10-16-18 11:24 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20618594)
Toronto is pretty flat travelling crosstown (east-west) but going north is a steady incline.

There is a difference between steady incline and short, steep hills. Portland's got both. I appreciate a low of around 40" when I hit those hills at 5-8% grade.

In any case (and without arguing further), the point I'm trying to make is that we're all different. We may have different fitness abilities and the terrain of our respective homes isn't the same as everyone else's. You may think going lower than 20T in the rear cog is overkill, whereas I tried that here and moved on to 23T which I am much happier with.

52telecaster 10-16-18 11:49 AM

Hey I set my aw hubs up with a max of 54 in 2nd. Sometimes significantly lower. I feel your pain brother!

gster 10-16-18 05:44 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 20618744)
Cool map. Riding to uptown TO from the lake was always a good workout. The Don Valley ravine was my fave ride north. All parkland. You just had to stand and go hard to get out of the valley at Eglinton and Leslie for about 15 minutes.

It sits in the old lake bed with Davenport Road being the old shoreline.

gster 10-16-18 05:46 PM


Originally Posted by adventurepdx (Post 20619179)
There is a difference between steady incline and short, steep hills. Portland's got both. I appreciate a low of around 40" when I hit those hills at 5-8% grade.

In any case (and without arguing further), the point I'm trying to make is that we're all different. We may have different fitness abilities and the terrain of our respective homes isn't the same as everyone else's. You may think going lower than 20T in the rear cog is overkill, whereas I tried that here and moved on to 23T which I am much happier with.

Agreed.

gster 10-16-18 08:38 PM


Originally Posted by tigervw78 (Post 20615565)
Thanks for the info everyone. I've got a 22T on the 72 Sports with flipped bars and a B17 narrow. I mainly use 2nd on that one. I also recently got a 74 Sports with B66 that I plan to leave original and riding upright with the 18T is tough. I was considering the 24T because I traverse this steep harbor bridge quite a bit and Memphis humidity is a killer. Ironically, we can get pretty strong winds as well. I'll be 48 in a few days and the knees aren't as strong as they used to be....

If I find that riding upright with 24T is too low, I ordered a 22T as well, so I'll swap them. Will let you know how it goes.

At least if you switch back to a smaller cog, you can just shorten the chain and not buy a new one...
P.S. I'm proposing a new PBS segment on local TV.
Cog Talk
15 minutes a week
Phone in show
w /special guests.
Hopefully prizes (cogs)

agmetal 10-16-18 10:52 PM

Just a picture of my 1937 Raleigh Tourist taken with a 1940s camera (and a tiny bit of tweaking on a computer)
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...10e96c57f7.jpg

BigChief 10-17-18 04:36 AM

Cool photo!. The boots give it away as modern though. Do you have the lights working yet? I just recently joined the Dynohub club with my last project. It's a nice feature, I'm having fun with it. Oops...I meant to say fitment!

Dan Burkhart 10-17-18 05:11 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20610251)
I believe they are Sturmey Archer KB and LB hubs. Either made under license or simply stamped with the BSA logo. Here's a 1934 SA catalog page. Spares for these are a machine shop proposition unless you're exceptionally lucky. Great bike!!!

I have a 1950 BSA hub disassembled on the bench right now, and it looks exactly like a Sturmey Archer X model. http://www.sturmey-archerheritage.co...os/pic-8.1.jpg
And the BSA https://hadland.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/bsa.pdf

Dan Burkhart 10-17-18 05:18 AM


Originally Posted by PeterLYoung (Post 20616795)
Just arrived in post today a BSA 3 Speed Hub plus a NOS BSA Hub Drive Piece, still has some greaseproof paper on it.

Now I can experiment with dismantling the hub plus have spare parts in case of repair or loss of components:-

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2f0ba0a4e9.png

Managed to unscrew the Gear Change Spindle OK so thats a good sign!!!

I'm trouble shooting a hub of that model right now. Pretty sure I've identified the issues with it and will be posting a youtube video when I'm done, likely in a day or two.

BigChief 10-17-18 06:10 AM


Originally Posted by Dan Burkhart (Post 20620374)
I'm trouble shooting a hub of that model right now. Pretty sure I've identified the issues with it and will be posting a youtube video when I'm done, likely in a day or two.

That's great! Videos are wonderful. I just serviced my first Dyno Hub and it so nice to be able to watch one on YouTube before I started. My days of servicing AW hubs goes way back before the internet, but I had to do an S5 without one and it was a pest to sit there with a pad and pencil making notes of every detail as it came apart. I would have liked to have a video to refer to. The chances of me servicing an X hub are pretty slim, but I would enjoy watching anyway. You never know.

PeterLYoung 10-17-18 06:29 AM


Originally Posted by Dan Burkhart (Post 20620374)
I'm trouble shooting a hub of that model right now. Pretty sure I've identified the issues with it and will be posting a youtube video when I'm done, likely in a day or two.

Hi Dan: Will look forward to your video, got mine 90% dismantled without breaking anything, found out why it did not work well, somebody tried undoing Left side adjuster cone and dropped a ball bearing from the cage into the inside of the hub, probably without realising and did it all up again, it was a bit grindy to say the least!!!

JaccoW 10-17-18 07:17 AM


Originally Posted by PeterLYoung (Post 20616795)
Just arrived in post today a BSA 3 Speed Hub plus a NOS BSA Hub Drive Piece, still has some greaseproof paper on it.

Now I can experiment with dismantling the hub plus have spare parts in case of repair or loss of components:-
[image]
Managed to unscrew the Gear Change Spindle OK so thats a good sign!!!

If you want the matching BSA dynohub, there is one for sale here: Sturmey Archer Vintage (BSA Front Hub Dino In Full Working Order Approx 1955 - Ebay.co.uk

Just ask the seller if he is willing to ship to the US

EDIT: Nevermind I see the bike has a front brake hub.

noglider 10-17-18 07:48 AM

youtube is amazing. On youtube, I learned how to braid round challah bread, how to snake out a clogged sewer line, and how to make a heat tolerant gasket. I've watched Dan's videos on IGHs, and I haven't needed them, but I just plain enjoy them.

OMG I just saw that Dan has his videos in French, too! Quelle vrai Canadien!

There was a series of IGH videos by a British guy named Graham, but I can't find them now!

agmetal 10-17-18 08:18 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20620355)
Cool photo!. The boots give it away as modern though. Do you have the lights working yet? I just recently joined the Dynohub club with my last project. It's a nice feature, I'm having fun with it. Oops...I meant to say fitment!

I have the headlamp working with an LED bulb (I got one with a 3000K "warm white" color, so it actually looks similar to an incandescent when lit up), but haven't been able to find a suitable bulb for the rear yet. A friend and I are discussing how to reduce the flicker, and whether the smoothing/standlight(?) circuit can be built into a form small enough to fit inside the housing of the light.

52telecaster 10-17-18 08:29 AM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 20620502)
youtube is amazing. On youtube, I learned how to braid round challah bread, how to snake out a clogged sewer line, and how to make a heat tolerant gasket. I've watched Dan's videos on IGHs, and I haven't needed them, but I just plain enjoy them.

OMG I just saw that Dan has his videos in French, too! Quelle vrai Canadien!

There was a series of IGH videos by a British guy named Graham, but I can't find them now!

any task I am unfamiliar with now gets a YouTube view first. Chilton's? No thanks!


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