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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

alexnagui 06-12-19 10:24 AM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 20975003)
If you've not got a chain link tool, get one (Park makes the best I've had so far), get some scrap chain and see if you can remove and reinstall links properly. Its not hard.

Totally agree on the chain link tool! Without it it's a PITA

Ged117 06-12-19 10:46 AM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 20975003)
The problem here is that the chain tension (or lack thereof) has to be correct- you can just move the wheel around. Generally about 1/2" to 3/4" deflection in the middle of the chain if you pull it up with your fingers. That governs the position of the wheel.

If the wheel is all the way back things get tricky. One reason it might be there is the chain is shot. Another might be because its too long. But taking a link out might make it too short. You can buy half links (ebay) to solve the latter problem. If you've not got a chain link tool, get one (Park makes the best I've had so far), get some scrap chain and see if you can remove and reinstall links properly. Its not hard.

That shouldn't be an issue since I got rid of the old original 70 year old chain. The new one is easy to deal with and I've got a Park chain tool that works very well. I put the wheel all the way back in the drop outs when I reassembled; it was originally in the middle of the dropouts and I'm going to put it back in the original position as found, and will set up the Cyclo external derailer with the full chain and see what the deflection will be. Thanks for that suggestion. I'm going to refit it tonight.

nlerner 06-12-19 12:54 PM

More than once, I've put in the low-gear pawls backwards (or the opposite orientation that they're supposed to go), which then meant that first-gear didn't work. You might want to check that!

jackbombay 06-12-19 06:58 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 20975332)
More than once, I've put in the low-gear pawls backwards (or the opposite orientation that they're supposed to go), which then meant that first-gear didn't work. You might want to check that!

I did get it working correctly by watching a youtube vid :-)

sykerocker 06-13-19 09:18 AM


Originally Posted by tigervw78 (Post 20974025)
Just saw these on CL. Men's and Ladies All Gold Editions.

https://northmiss.craigslist.org/bik...907727264.html

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4ce0e821ef.jpg

Anybody near this location interested? I wish I was closer.

I just got off the phone with the guy. A couple of days ago I'd emailed him, explaining to him how you figure out the year of the S-A hub. He called me about twenty minutes ago after I texted him a pic of one of my inventory hubs to show him the details.

Seems like a pretty decent guy, during the course of the conversation I casually mentioned that, while not totally unreasonable, his price was a little high given the condition of the bikes. He's had an offer of $100.00 for the pair, is trying to get a something closer to $150.00 for them. They're 67's (from the hub), and he's owned them since new. The usual 'haven't ridden them in years, let them sit forgotten in the rafters' situation.

They guy's name is Winston, and his phone number is 205-570-3400 (he had no qualms about giving me his number, so I'll assume he's not going to complain is someone from the group contacts him regarding the bike).

tigervw78 06-13-19 12:22 PM


Originally Posted by sykerocker (Post 20976744)
I just got off the phone with the guy. A couple of days ago I'd emailed him, explaining to him how you figure out the year of the S-A hub. He called me about twenty minutes ago after I texted him a pic of one of my inventory hubs to show him the details.

Seems like a pretty decent guy, during the course of the conversation I casually mentioned that, while not totally unreasonable, his price was a little high given the condition of the bikes. He's had an offer of $100.00 for the pair, is trying to get a something closer to $150.00 for them. They're 67's (from the hub), and he's owned them since new. The usual 'haven't ridden them in years, let them sit forgotten in the rafters' situation.

They guy's name is Winston, and his phone number is 205-570-3400 (he had no qualms about giving me his number, so I'll assume he's not going to complain is someone from the group contacts him regarding the bike).

Thanks for the great info. Did he happen to say what size the men's frame is? Looks like a 21", but it's hard to tell since he didn't provide a side photo. I'm 2.5 hrs away. A little too far round trip.

dweenk 06-13-19 02:18 PM


Originally Posted by tigervw78 (Post 20977078)
Thanks for the great info. Did he happen to say what size the men's frame is? Looks like a 21", but it's hard to tell since he didn't provide a side photo. I'm 2.5 hrs away. A little too far round trip.

I looked through the photos in the ad the seller posted and I can't help but think that these bikes spent a bit of time on the gulf coast, or more time outside in any place away from the coast. I don't think that the chrome is toast, but it is nasty along with rust spots through the paint. Both are too small and too far away for me. Maybe $100 for the pair at best - nice color though.

sykerocker 06-13-19 03:18 PM


Originally Posted by tigervw78 (Post 20977078)
Thanks for the great info. Did he happen to say what size the men's frame is? Looks like a 21", but it's hard to tell since he didn't provide a side photo. I'm 2.5 hrs away. A little too far round trip.

Didn't think of asking, but there's nowhere near enough space on the head tube for that to be a 23-1/2". It's gotta be a 21-1/2".

And it's not one of the standard catalog colors for 1967. The guy is originally from Southern California, that's where they were bought. Decades in the rafters, forgotten, will kill any finish.

ryansu 06-13-19 04:10 PM


Originally Posted by alexnagui (Post 20975027)
Totally agree on the chain link tool! Without it it's a PITA

Plus one on the Park Chain link tool, you hear that you don't need a tool to undo a power link/quick link chain but I have found that to be bs, I have tried many ways shown on youtube etc with little success but the chain link tool makes it a breeze. I have been free of pin connector chains about a decade now.

gster 06-14-19 04:41 AM


Originally Posted by ryansu (Post 20977486)
Plus one on the Park Chain link tool, you hear that you don't need a tool to undo a power link/quick link chain but I have found that to be bs, I have tried many ways shown on youtube etc with little success but the chain link tool makes it a breeze. I have been free of pin connector chains about a decade now.

The co op down the street (Bike Pirates) sells those quick link chains for $15.00.
I've got one on a bike and another waiting to be installed.

BigChief 06-14-19 05:29 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20978113)
The co op down the street (Bike Pirates) sells those quick link chains for $15.00.
I've got one on a bike and another waiting to be installed.

All of my bikes still have the old fashioned master links with the little clip. I like the look of these quick links. I see a change for me here, but I would want a pair of those special pliers. I can see needle nose pliers slipping off and pinching my fingers.

paulb_in_bkln 06-14-19 05:39 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20978113)
The co op down the street (Bike Pirates) sells those quick link chains for $15.00.
I've got one on a bike and another waiting to be installed.

The master links with the plate on one side open with any pliers, but the ones with two symmetric pieces, it's tough without those special ones. Is one better than the other? No idea.

jackbombay 06-14-19 07:49 AM

The special pliers make dealing with the power links really easy! You can use the pliers to get the link to click into the locked position in addition to using them to undo the links. I do periodically remove my chains to clean them in a jar of laquer thinner so I use the pliers regularly. Cleaning my chains like that really increases chain life.

Alloyboy 06-14-19 10:16 AM

Things you already know.
 
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c91451d394.jpg

Remember extra links needed going from 18 teeth to a 22. Old faithful link splitter does wonders.
I have my old faithful chain link thingy for many years.

Alloyboy 06-14-19 10:39 AM

Special thanks to Dan Burkhart for the 22 tooth cog.

dweenk 06-14-19 01:15 PM

I had a cheap chain tool that I bought around 1972 - doubt if I paid more than $3 for it. It lasted until 2015 when one of the chain stops sheared off. I bought a Bell tool for around $10 and broke the pin on the second use. Now I have a Park chain tool and Park link pliers for quick links and life is good.

BigChief 06-14-19 06:22 PM


Originally Posted by dweenk (Post 20978951)
I had a cheap chain tool that I bought around 1972 - doubt if I paid more than $3 for it. It lasted until 2015 when one of the chain stops sheared off. I bought a Bell tool for around $10 and broke the pin on the second use. Now I have a Park chain tool and Park link pliers for quick links and life is good.

Yikes...I must be the last one here using archaic master links with the tiny "loose me please" clips and I never knew it.

clubman 06-14-19 06:37 PM


Originally Posted by Alloyboy (Post 20978590)
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c91451d394.jpg

Remember extra links needed going from 18 teeth to a 22. Old faithful link splitter does wonders.
I have my old faithful chain link thingy for many years.

Loves me the Rivoli (won'r use Park AGAIN. (PINS BEND)

clubman 06-14-19 06:38 PM


Originally Posted by dweenk (Post 20978951)
I had a cheap chain tool that I bought around 1972 - doubt if I paid more than $3 for it. It lasted until 2015 when one of the chain stops sheared off. I bought a Bell tool for around $10 and broke the pin on the second use. Now I have a Park chain tool and Park link pliers for quick links and life is good.

I've had a number of quick links that aren't 1/8" gauge. Which are you using?

gster 06-14-19 06:51 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20979405)
Yikes...I must be the last one here using archaic master links with the tiny "loose me please" clips and I never knew it.

I still like and use the master link. Canadian Tire now sells the chain and the link as
separate pieces....
Charging $4.00 for the link.
You need to align the clip so it "pulls" against the curve.

gster 06-14-19 06:59 PM


Originally Posted by Alloyboy (Post 20978640)
Special thanks to Dan Burkhart for the 22 tooth cog.

I quite like the 20-22 cog range.

paulb_in_bkln 06-14-19 07:23 PM


Originally Posted by sykerocker (Post 20974657)
Will probably replace with a B-72, which would look proper and is a heck of a lot easier to find.

Although Brooks have discontinued the B72 I learned a couple weeks ago they still have some new black ones for sale. VERY EXPENSIVE however: $190.

paulb_in_bkln 06-14-19 07:25 PM


Originally Posted by Alloyboy (Post 20978590)

Remember extra links needed going from 18 teeth to a 22. Old faithful link splitter does wonders.
I have my old faithful chain link thingy for many years.

I still have my Rivoli chain tool also! But the pin is bent. It's useless now.

BigChief 06-14-19 08:09 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20979445)
I quite like the 20-22 cog range.

It's great to have these cog choices. My DL-1 is from 1970 so it has the later 46T chainring. The 22T cog makes all the difference in the world for me. I use all three on that bike. With the original 16T, it was a two speed for me. The scorcher is happy with 48x20, but the much heavier full dress 51 Rudge I only ride in normal and low with that configuration. I don't think 22T would be enough to make high a good cruising gear on that bike. I was surprised how much heavier the pre 2030 frames are. Especially when you add a dyno hub and B66. I haven't weighed it but it doesn't feel any lighter then the DL-1.

harlond 06-14-19 08:20 PM


Originally Posted by Alloyboy (Post 20978590)
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c91451d394.jpg

Remember extra links needed going from 18 teeth to a 22. Old faithful link splitter does wonders.
I have my old faithful chain link thingy for many years.

That's the same one I have. Your box is in slightly better shape though. Everytime I get it out I think to myself I probably should get a new one, but now I'll just think of it as classic.

jackbombay 06-14-19 11:17 PM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20979495)
I still have my Rivoli chain tool also! But the pin is bent. It's useless now.

Bend it back! It may break off, but, the tool doesn't work now, so there no loss if bending it back doesn't work.

gster 06-15-19 06:38 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20979558)
It's great to have these cog choices. My DL-1 is from 1970 so it has the later 46T chainring. The 22T cog makes all the difference in the world for me. I use all three on that bike. With the original 16T, it was a two speed for me. The scorcher is happy with 48x20, but the much heavier full dress 51 Rudge I only ride in normal and low with that configuration. I don't think 22T would be enough to make high a good cruising gear on that bike. I was surprised how much heavier the pre 2030 frames are. Especially when you add a dyno hub and B66. I haven't weighed it but it doesn't feel any lighter then the DL-1.

Yes, I find the standard 18T cog doesn't suit me anymore. It's possible it never did but
I didn't know how easy it was to change.
I've been riding my Robin Hood SS (Semi-Scorcher) to work lately.
I think it has a 20 on it.
I find the gear range both useful and comfortable.
I'm riding with rush hour traffic so I have no need to be
a speed demon.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1090ba13cd.jpg
Frame year unknown with a '63 hub, new tires and brakes with a vintage Wrights saddle.

paulb_in_bkln 06-15-19 09:05 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20979405)
Yikes...I must be the last one here using archaic master links with the tiny "loose me please" clips and I never knew it.

Uhh.... not exactly.

paulb_in_bkln 06-15-19 09:11 AM


Originally Posted by jackbombay (Post 20979738)
Bend it back! It may break off, but, the tool doesn't work now, so there no loss if bending it back doesn't work.

Worth trying. I bought the little Park version and that one not only is a bit more comfortable in the hand than the Rivoli but the pin can be replaced. It's about the same size and weight as the Rivoli. I still have I think two bikes where the chains don't have a master link. When I went to buy a chain for the mixte conversion the bike shop was out of stock so Mike grabbed up like a dozen bits of leftover single speed chain (all matching) threw them in a bag and handed them to me and I spent maybe a half hour or a little more pinning them all together.

paulb_in_bkln 06-15-19 09:18 AM

Rudi the saddle guy riveted my good B72 cover to an intact used frame. (The frame breaks if you use Joe Breeze's seat sandwich. Ask me how I know.) He used these really fine wide brass rivets. It looks so good. I almost want to ask him to do my other saddles that way, too.https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...fc954d9d5e.jpg


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