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genejockey 07-24-20 02:41 PM


Originally Posted by datlas (Post 21605158)
Speaking of drops, I think I spend maybe 20-25% of my time in the drops. But looking around at my friends, they are pretty much never in the drops.

What's up with that??

Handlebar too low? Handlebar drop too big? Poorly positioned brifters? Don't want to knee themselves in the gut?

I keep seeing riders coming down this one smooth, wide, fast, totally non-technical descent on the hoods instead of the drops. They don't know what they're missing! And then I see some riders grinding uphills in the drops, with the wind at their backs.

genejockey 07-24-20 02:43 PM


Originally Posted by seedsbelize (Post 21605091)
Dentists ride titanium

This may explain why I completely failed in my quest last month to find an early 2000s Litespeed Ultimate to buy and rebuild. I never went to Dentistry School.

EDIT: Uh-oh. 3 posts in a row. I think I better declare lunchtime over and get back to work. Those data won't crunch themselves.

Velo Vol 07-24-20 02:51 PM


Originally Posted by genejockey (Post 21605197)
Don't want to knee themselves in the gut?

<==Has not kneed himself in the gut

MoAlpha 07-24-20 03:06 PM


Originally Posted by datlas (Post 21605158)
Speaking of drops, I think I spend maybe 20-25% of my time in the drops. But looking around at my friends, they are pretty much never in the drops.

What's up with that??

Maybe they slammed their stems inappropriately for reasons of appearance.

I estimate my drop time on the order of 30% on the road bike.

WhyFi 07-24-20 03:45 PM


Originally Posted by datlas (Post 21605158)
Speaking of drops, I think I spend maybe 20-25% of my time in the drops. But looking around at my friends, they are pretty much never in the drops.

What's up with that??

It used to be thought that being in the drops was faster.. but I think that the most aero position has been shown to be on the hoods with forearms parallel to the ground. Maybe they're up to date on their aero? :innocent:

I'm probably in the 25% region, too, but it's primarily about sketch-factor, not aero.

LAJ 07-24-20 03:48 PM


Originally Posted by genejockey (Post 21605178)
I did it the Old Fashioned Way - first, I made myself an Old Fashioned. :rolleyes:

Then I set each bike up, JUST touching the kitchen counter with the back wheel against the wall. Then I measured from the center of the BB spindle to the floor, and to the wall where the wheel was touching. Then I measured from the center of the top of the top tube to the wall and the floor. Then I used an Excel sheet to convert inches to cm and do the appropriate subtractions, and voila! Stack and Reach.

I also used this method to measure saddle setback, saddle-handlebar drop, Reach+ and Stack+.

Yes. The back wheel against the wall and the bike sitting plumb, is the best way to set up a new bike to match the old.

LAJ 07-24-20 03:50 PM


Originally Posted by Velo Vol (Post 21605213)
<==Has not kneed himself in the gut

Nor have I. Getting close with nearly 7" (real money, not that metric mm/cm crap) drop on the TT bike to kneeing myself in the ribs though.

LAJ 07-24-20 03:52 PM


Originally Posted by WhyFi (Post 21605292)
It used to be thought that being in the drops was faster.. but I think that the most aero position has been shown to be on the hoods with forearms parallel to the ground. Maybe they're up to date on their aero? :innocent:

I'm probably in the 25% region, too, but it's primarily about sketch-factor, not aero.

That's right, simply because the top fuel dragster drop is so extreme you can't get you forearms parallel whilst in the drops anymore.

LAJ 07-24-20 03:52 PM


Originally Posted by MoAlpha (Post 21605237)
Maybe they slammed their stems inappropriately for reasons of appearance.

I estimate my drop time on the order of 30% on the road bike.

Indeed.

abshipp 07-24-20 04:08 PM


Originally Posted by genejockey (Post 21605178)
I did it the Old Fashioned Way - first, I made myself an Old Fashioned. :rolleyes:

Then I set each bike up, JUST touching the kitchen counter with the back wheel against the wall. Then I measured from the center of the BB spindle to the floor, and to the wall where the wheel was touching. Then I measured from the center of the top of the top tube to the wall and the floor. Then I used an Excel sheet to convert inches to cm and do the appropriate subtractions, and voila! Stack and Reach.

I also used this method to measure saddle setback, saddle-handlebar drop, Reach+ and Stack+.

That's a really great idea. I've got the geometry chart for one of my bikes, but the other two are a bit older and from really big manufacturers (Motobecane & Schwinn) that didn't publish that stuff in their catalogs for a long time. Thankfully Trek has been doing it from the very beginning.

This is all for purely research purposes for the moment, and I've got the geo chart so CAD works perfectly for now :thumb:


Originally Posted by datlas (Post 21605158)
Speaking of drops, I think I spend maybe 20-25% of my time in the drops. But looking around at my friends, they are pretty much never in the drops.

What's up with that??

I <3 my drops. Very comfortable and secure.


Originally Posted by genejockey (Post 21605197)
I keep seeing riders coming down this one smooth, wide, fast, totally non-technical descent on the hoods instead of the drops. They don't know what they're missing! And then I see some riders grinding uphills in the drops, with the wind at their backs.

I climb in the drops often.


Originally Posted by WhyFi (Post 21605292)
I'm probably in the 25% region, too, but it's primarily about sketch-factor, not aero.

My cantilevers are fantastic brakes, but take a lot of hand strength to work. They're useless from the hoods aside from minor speed modulation, so I'm always in the drops when descending or riding around traffic.

Velo Vol 07-24-20 04:19 PM


Originally Posted by LAJ (Post 21605305)
Nor have I. Getting close with nearly 7" (real money, not that metric mm/cm crap) drop on the TT bike to kneeing myself in the ribs though.

I've had days where putting socks and shoes on was a chore. #InflexibilityWoes

Bah Humbug 07-24-20 04:21 PM


Originally Posted by WhyFi (Post 21605292)
It used to be thought that being in the drops was faster.. but I think that the most aero position has been shown to be on the hoods with forearms parallel to the ground. Maybe they're up to date on their aero? :innocent:

I'm probably in the 25% region, too, but it's primarily about sketch-factor, not aero.

Man, the number of people who cling to "you should be in the drops as much as possible" blows my mind. One goes so far as to say MVDP should use the drops, and if some of the other CX pros would do so they'd beat him. :rolleyes:

You're right, and I find that more comfortable as well, especially with a pistol-grip on the hoods.

MoAlpha 07-24-20 04:31 PM

'Splain it to me, Lucy.


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4fd2b9422e.png

genejockey 07-24-20 04:35 PM


Originally Posted by LAJ (Post 21605300)
Yes. The back wheel against the wall and the bike sitting plumb, is the best way to set up a new bike to match the old.

And because "Stack and Reach" were not in use when any of my old bikes were made, I had to determined that empirically. It was gratifying to discover I'd set all 3 bikes up to within 0.5 cm on all major measurements. Also made setting the new bike up a piece of cake.

That, and having a spare saddle that's the same as the one on the other 3 bikes. Not bad considering it's been out of production for at least 15 years.

seedsbelize 07-24-20 04:37 PM

I am always in the drops when descending, because control. But I only descend when riding in the USA. Here, I use the drops as an alternate hand position. Prolly around 25%. I, personally, am faster when in the drops. It's a more powerful position. I see riding the hoods as the lazy approach. Speaking for myself only.

seedsbelize 07-24-20 04:43 PM


Originally Posted by MoAlpha (Post 21605370)

Sad!
I recently submitted a note to a website I frequent. I was unable to log in for a live event. Three weeks later I was informed that it's been solved. I questioned the delay and found that it is business as usual.

Velo Vol 07-24-20 04:43 PM

:love:


MoAlpha 07-24-20 04:50 PM


Originally Posted by seedsbelize (Post 21605377)
I am always in the drops when descending, because control. But I only descend when riding in the USA. Here, I use the drops as an alternate hand position. Prolly around 25%. I, personally, am faster when in the drops. It's a more powerful position. I see riding the hoods as the lazy approach. Speaking for myself only.

Yup. It's about the weight distribution and having a fistful of something you won't slip off of if you hit a bump.

LAJ 07-24-20 04:50 PM

There are numerous reasons why being comfortable in the drops is important, though being in them for distance type riding isn't one of them. Group riding, racing, hammer rides, it only makes sense, simply because control is important, and not overlapping bars is even more important.

BillyD 07-24-20 04:51 PM


Originally Posted by Velo Vol (Post 21605213)
<==Has not kneed himself in the gut

Pfffft. Me neither. Can't even remember the last time I could.

MoAlpha 07-24-20 04:53 PM


Originally Posted by seedsbelize (Post 21605383)
Sad!
I recently submitted a note to a website I frequent. I was unable to log in for a live event. Three weeks later I was informed that it's been solved. I questioned the delay and found that it is business as usual.

It's the oscillation between Louisville and Billings that I find particularly odd. Is this a probabilistic, quantum-mechanical, cloud of package that's really in two places at once?

BillyD 07-24-20 04:54 PM


Originally Posted by Velo Vol (Post 21605351)
I've had days where putting socks and shoes on was a chore. #InflexibilityWoes

Mi también.

datlas 07-24-20 04:59 PM


Originally Posted by WhyFi (Post 21605292)
It used to be thought that being in the drops was faster.. but I think that the most aero position has been shown to be on the hoods with forearms parallel to the ground. Maybe they're up to date on their aero? :innocent:

I'm probably in the 25% region, too, but it's primarily about sketch-factor, not aero.

I am likely the same. Drops for descending, for sure. If motoring on flats agree on tips of hoods with forearms horizontal. Tops better for steeper climbs. In slipstream hoods with slight elbow bend is comfy.

I think a lot of newer cyclists don’t appreciate that there are easily 5 or more hand positions and always ride the hoods.

datlas 07-24-20 05:00 PM

What is this gut you speak of? :innocent:

DougRNS 07-24-20 05:06 PM

@Velo Vol was looking for his old neighbor and got himself in trouble.https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ed7b0cc2a2.jpg


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