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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

gster 01-26-20 10:00 PM


Originally Posted by jackbombay (Post 21300963)
The kinky cable is your problem.

When it was in 1st/2nd and you couldn't notice a difference between the 2 gears did you hear the freewheel click sound in both of those gears while you were pedalling? If you are actually in 1st gear you will not get the freewheel clicking sound when you pedal, but you will get it in second gear, and 3rd.

The kinky cable means that you are wasting shifter cable pull getting the cable pulled taught instead of the cable pull changing gears.

I agree, that shifter cable looks pooched.

jackbombay 01-27-20 12:46 AM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 21300863)
Put 3 or 4 drops of light machine oil in the hub port (every 4 months or so) and don't use 3-in-1 vegetable based oil. It needs to be dino or it will gum up.

Lately I have been using the 3 in 1 "motor oil" which is 20 weight, maybe a bit thick, but it should protect parts quite well, supposedly designed for larger electric motors, the SDS sheet for it states its %96 mineral oil. Somewhere I read, I believe in some Sturmey literature, that they recommend 20 weight oil for their hubs, but I have tried to find where I read that and have been unable to find it. I know that these hubs will be pretty happy with just about any oil that doesn't gum up, but I like messing around with different oils to see if I can tell a difference.

https://files.wd40.com/pdf/sds/3inon...-motor-oil.pdf

Here is the SDS sheet for all purpose 3 in 1, its mostly made up of "Severely Hydrotreated Heavy Naphthenic Oil", I can say I'm not totally sure what that means!

https://files.wd40.com/pdf/sds/3inon...ping-spout.pdf

For oiling a hub that I don't know the history of I'll generally add a full teaspoon to it initially, and it will be a bit of a mess for a month or so, but it cleans up easy enough with a wheel brush and some simple green, at that point I know it has plenty of oil so I then back off to the 3-4 drops every 4 months or so that you recommend.

BigChief 01-27-20 06:15 AM

When hubs have been sitting unused for years, oil can dry out and leave a sticky mess. Usually, it's the pawls that stick, but sometimes the clutch plate won't want to slide up and down smoothly. An easy way to tell is to disconnect the cable and operate the indicator chain by hand while you spin the wheel. If it operates smoothly and all gears engage, you know you have a cable/adjustment problem and the hub is fine.

gster 01-27-20 08:44 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 21301353)
When hubs have been sitting unused for years, oil can dry out and leave a sticky mess. Usually, it's the pawls that stick, but sometimes the clutch plate won't want to slide up and down smoothly. An easy way to tell is to disconnect the cable and operate the indicator chain by hand while you spin the wheel. If it operates smoothly and all gears engage, you know you have a cable/adjustment problem and the hub is fine.

There are only two things that can mess these hubs up and there's no way of knowing who's
worked on/messed up over the past 50+ years
1-Over tightening-
inexperienced mechanics over tighten the hub and can strip the sun gear.
there needs to be a little "play" in the hub
2-Lack of use-
A hub that has sat for a number of years can gum up as the oil pools at the bottom and
moisture can migrate in allowing oxidation.
It's rare to find any real damage to the internal parts.

Salubrious 01-27-20 10:50 AM


Originally Posted by JJScaliger (Post 21300825)
T
I tried to squeeze in this set up between many family commitments today, but I was only able to get 2 gears to work. I was able to get all three shifter positions to click, but 1 and 2 seem like the same gear. I had to have the cable super slack or it wouldn't engage into 3. That cable is kind of kinked and I'm not sure if a longer indicator chain would prevent getting the correct tension.




https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1d6d28489c.jpg

Someone hinted at a possible problem. Check your end float on the hub. The cones must have ever so slight amount of slop. You can check this at the rim- it should be able to move ever so slightly from side to side. If there is no play in the bearing cones the hub will not shift correctly and can be damaged!

Also- do not throw the old toogle chain out. The damaged links can be repaired using a nail of the right size as a rivet. I think the original rivets are harder, but in practice they don't have a lot of tension on them. I've been running a toggle chain repaired in this manner for the last 12 years.

BigChief 01-27-20 11:47 AM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 21301678)
Someone hinted at a possible problem. Check your end float on the hub. The cones must have ever so slight amount of slop. You can check this at the rim- it should be able to move ever so slightly from side to side. If there is no play in the bearing cones the hub will not shift correctly and can be damaged!

Also- do not throw the old toogle chain out. The damaged links can be repaired using a nail of the right size as a rivet. I think the original rivets are harder, but in practice they don't have a lot of tension on them. I've been running a toggle chain repaired in this manner for the last 12 years.

Now that's a frugal New Englander! I just bought a package of 10 HSA 125 indicators from some guy on eBay.

gster 01-27-20 12:46 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 21301775)
Now that's a frugal New Englander! I just bought a package of 10 HSA 125 indicators from some guy on eBay.

I guess it depends where you live....
My LBS has lots of these NOS

PeterLYoung 01-29-20 07:05 AM

Sunbeam W3 Wayfarer No S48571 1949/50 Part 3
 
I have now ridden this Sunbeam Wayfarer a few times and it has proved to be a very nice ride. I have also added a 1950's NOS Lucas Challis Bell and a NOS 'Ever Ready' Rear Lamp which I have converted to 9Volt LED running from a 9Volt 6LP3146 Battery (type fitted to Smoke Alarms). Also a Vintage Front Lamp of unknown make which I have also converted to 9Volt LED utilising the same battery as the rear lamp. See photos below:-

You can see other instalments regarding this rebuild at: Sunbeam W3 Wayfarer No S48571 1949/50 & Sunbeam W3 Wayfarer No S48571 1949/50 Part 2


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0c08318de3.jpg
NOS Lucas Challis Bell fitted.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4b7d9a7d59.jpg
Front Lamp, switched on, illumination is quite bright.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ecdc072bbf.jpg
Close up of front lamp.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4984577382.jpg
Top of Front Lamp showing dual voltage switch ie. 4Volts or 8Volts.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8b236c5bcc.jpg
Ever Ready Rear Lamp. Had this in it's original box priced at 4/6d in the 40's/50's.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...58b6f6a8a8.jpg
Lamp again is pretty bright
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...645adc62e5.jpg
Bike in it's current state.

gster 01-29-20 09:00 AM

Very nice.
4/6 in 1945 is worth about 8 pounds today....
Your BSA trigger looks NOS as well.

PeterLYoung 01-29-20 10:56 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21304428)
Very nice.
4/6 in 1945 is worth about 8 pounds today....
Your BSA trigger looks NOS as well.

Thanks your comments. Yes you are correct it is NOS and I think probably middish 1950's (there is no date on it) as also is the 3 speed cable which came in a sealed Britax (famous for seat belts) greaseproof bag.
I think the Challis Bell is probably much later than the bike and there is no date on it.

BigChief 01-29-20 11:42 AM


Originally Posted by PeterLYoung (Post 21304636)
Thanks your comments. Yes you are correct it is NOS and I think probably middish 1950's (there is no date on it) as also is the 3 speed cable which came in a sealed Britax (famous for seat belts) greaseproof bag.
I think the Challis Bell is probably much later than the bike and there is no date on it.

Great job on the bike. A classy ride. That front lamp reminds me of those old ww2 military lanterns. I think it might be one. Dual use because of the handle. And that looks like a spring loaded suspension. Designed for a heavy battery perhaps? Very cool.

PeterLYoung 01-29-20 12:19 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 21304706)
Great job on the bike. A classy ride. That front lamp reminds me of those old ww2 military lanterns. I think it might be one. Dual use because of the handle. And that looks like a spring loaded suspension. Designed for a heavy battery perhaps? Very cool.

Thanks your comments. Got the lamp in mixed box of vintage battery lamps at an auction. It has a dual voltage (4 & 8 Volts) switch and probably had two batteries but no idea what the batteries were. It is on spring suspension which clamps to the bike lamp bracket but I doubt it will operate much as my battery does not add sufficient weight. Overall it is in excellent condition so probably been in a cupboard somewhere and kept dry. Like you I think probably 1940's but yet to find it in a catalogue anywhere. Never seen another. Gives a good light though with the 9Volt LED lamp.

Salubrious 01-30-20 03:51 PM

I got a weird one. I recently picked up a 1949 Royal Enfield rod brake machine ('Lightweight Sports'). It seems to have really unusual wheels- 650b instead of the regular 28" rims usually seen on rod brake machines. The rims appear original and no rust only on account of being worn by the brake action. The original finish appears to have been black paint. Anyone heard of something like this?

clubman 01-30-20 04:27 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 21306659)
I got a weird one. I recently picked up a 1949 Royal Enfield rod brake machine ('Lightweight Sports'). It seems to have really unusual wheels- 650b instead of the regular 28" rims usually seen on rod brake machines. The rims appear original and no rust only on account of being worn by the brake action. The original finish appears to have been black paint. Anyone heard of something like this?

CCM also made models with these. They were 26 X 1 1/2" Canadian designation. I think I've rims and Dunlop white walls in the cave although the rubber may be too far gone.

nlerner 01-30-20 08:27 PM

Yeah, 597mm/EA1/26 x 1 1/4” rims were popular in that era, but 584mm/650B?

clubman 01-30-20 10:19 PM

This Dunlop chart shows the British size was 26 x 1 1/2 or F9. It shows a bead circumference of 72.25, just under the EA3 value of 73.0. I think that works out to the difference between the 590 and 584 beads, especially when you compare the numbers between the EA1 and EA3.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...12a1d87511.jpg

gster 02-01-20 09:03 AM

Here's a good looking Canadian Superbe for sale in Hamilton, Ontario
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0722a5d315.png
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...553b3b17c2.png
Very complete with 2 keys.
Pre 1961 with reasonable paint and decals.
Seller is asking $185.00
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...14ec53b2c6.png

bluesteak 02-02-20 08:24 PM

Very interesting bike. I never saw paint like that on a Raleigh. Reminds me of my Hercules tourist.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...761d0473d.jpeg

bluesteak 02-03-20 05:31 AM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 21306659)
I got a weird one. I recently picked up a 1949 Royal Enfield rod brake machine ('Lightweight Sports'). It seems to have really unusual wheels- 650b instead of the regular 28" rims usually seen on rod brake machines. The rims appear original and no rust only on account of being worn by the brake action. The original finish appears to have been black paint. Anyone heard of something like this?

My 39 elswick has 26 x 1 3/8 westrick rims, chrome with painted centers.

I also have a couple 20 inch kids rod brake bikes.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5766ef5ab9.jpg

jackbombay 02-03-20 01:52 PM

I picked up a 1974 NOS S3C coaster brake Sturmey, the plan is to build up a drop bar "brakeless" bike with it, it'll obviously have the coaster brake, but it will look like it has no brakes. I'll buy some cheap ergo drop bar brake levers to use for more hand positions and I'll figure some way to install the shifter into the right brake lever so I won't have to move my hand from the hood to change gears. So, I am on the lookout for an older horizontal dropout bike around 56-58cm in size if anyone knows of one, I'm 5' 11"...

I will build this up with a 32 hole rim as I did with the other 40 hole S5 hub I recently built into a wheel.

https://i.postimg.cc/Vv3ZvRKz/6D7AE1...68B1F7C737.jpg

jackbombay 02-03-20 08:44 PM


Originally Posted by brianhamp (Post 21312470)
So how do you go about lacing a 40 hole hub into a 32 hole rim? I have alot of 40 hole hubs I would like to lace up but short on 40 hole rims..
Please share!!

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...-hole-rim.html

Let me know if you have any questions on this :-)

nlerner 02-03-20 08:51 PM


Originally Posted by jackbombay (Post 21311856)
I picked up a 1974 NOS S3C coaster brake Sturmey, the plan is to build up a drop bar "brakeless" bike with it, it'll obviously have the coaster brake, but it will look like it has no brakes. I'll buy some cheap ergo drop bar brake levers to use for more hand positions and I'll figure some way to install the shifter into the right brake lever so I won't have to move my hand from the hood to change gears. So, I am on the lookout for an older horizontal dropout bike around 56-58cm in size if anyone knows of one, I'm 5' 11"...

I have a Jeunet w/ horizontal dropouts and no derailleur hanger that might fit the bill. I need to measure when Iím back home, which wonít be until next weekend, but iirc itís a 58cm frame (Iím 5í10Ē, and it fits me well).

Hereís a pic of it built with 650b x 38mm wheels and an AW hub.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9bea82271.jpeg

jackbombay 02-03-20 09:14 PM


Originally Posted by brianhamp (Post 21312479)
I will give it a go tomorrow... Thank you so much!!

Glad it can help you out!


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 21312489)
I have a Jeunet w/ horizontal dropouts and no derailleur hanger that might fit the bill. I need to measure when Iím back home, which wonít be until next weekend, but iirc itís a 58cm frame (Iím 5í10Ē, and it fits me well).

Hereís a pic of it built with 650b x 38mm wheels and an AW hub.

That bike is a beauty!


I actually took a look in the "Pass it around frame doesn't fit" thread and found a Schwinn Premis (columbus tubing) that Mad Honk was looking for a new home for so that will be on its way to me when he gets it boxed up, he even has the 32 hole wheels it came with so I can use the front as is and take apart the rear wheel to use the rim with my sturmey hub. I'm really looking forward to the build, its going to be laughably simple with only one cable to run!

gster 02-04-20 04:42 AM


Originally Posted by jackbombay (Post 21311856)
I picked up a 1974 NOS S3C coaster brake Sturmey, the plan is to build up a drop bar "brakeless" bike with it, it'll obviously have the coaster brake, but it will look like it has no brakes. I'll buy some cheap ergo drop bar brake levers to use for more hand positions and I'll figure some way to install the shifter into the right brake lever so I won't have to move my hand from the hood to change gears. So, I am on the lookout for an older horizontal dropout bike around 56-58cm in size if anyone knows of one, I'm 5' 11"...

I will build this up with a 32 hole rim as I did with the other 40 hole S5 hub I recently built into a wheel.

https://i.postimg.cc/Vv3ZvRKz/6D7AE1...68B1F7C737.jpg

Someone, wiser than myself, pointed out that it's a good idea to install a front brake on a coaster bike.
Very important if you plan to ride in the city.
I've got two coaster projects (Perry and a Duomatic) and they both have a caliper up front.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...99f904d8eb.jpg
Raleigh/Glider w/ Duomatic hub.
The drop bars have been swapped out for uprights since this picture was taken.

clubman 02-04-20 06:30 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21312772)
it's a good idea to install a front brake on a coaster bike.
Very important if you plan to ride in the city.
I've got two coaster projects (Perry and a Duomatic) and they both have a caliper up front.

+10 I don't think SA coasters work well enough to trust one's life with. Duomatics are very good but still...
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3b1fae9dd6.jpg

gster 02-04-20 06:41 AM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 21312833)
+10 I don't think SA coasters work well enough to trust one's life with. Duomatics are very good but still...
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3b1fae9dd6.jpg

Yes, the Duomatic brake works quite well.
You can lock it up if you want to "lay a patch".
Something like 70% of your stopping power is
from the front.

jackbombay 02-04-20 10:42 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21312772)
Someone, wiser than myself, pointed out that it's a good idea to install a front brake on a coaster bike.
Very important if you plan to ride in the city.
I've got two coaster projects (Perry and a Duomatic) and they both have a caliper up front.


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 21312833)
+10 I don't think SA coasters work well enough to trust one's life with. Duomatics are very good but still...


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21312843)
Something like 70% of your stopping power is
from the front.

I know just a coaster brake is not the safest way to set up a bike, the front brake is absolutely the boss when it comes to dumping speed NOW!

I will ride the bike accordingly, I can always add a front brake easily at a later date.

julius rensch 02-04-20 01:08 PM

Coaster Brake..
 

Originally Posted by jackbombay (Post 21313184)
I know just a coaster brake is not the safest way to set up a bike, the front brake is absolutely the boss when it comes to dumping speed NOW!

I will ride the bike accordingly, I can always add a front brake easily at a later date.



Years ago (in the 1950's) a 14 yr old friend was riding down a steep hill on his Schwinn Phantom equiped with only a Bendix coaster brake. ...while coasting at high speed, upon hitting a bump, the chain jumped off...resulting in no brakes, into a busy intesection...he died there after being hit by a car.
I loved my English Indian Scout with front and rear handbrakes even more after that, so did my Mom & Dad.
Jules in Ohio

clubman 02-04-20 01:58 PM


Originally Posted by jackbombay (Post 21313184)
I know just a coaster brake is not the safest way to set up a bike, the front brake is absolutely the boss when it comes to dumping speed NOW!

I will ride the bike accordingly, I can always add a front brake easily at a later date.

Yah, I just like to hear myself saying the same things repeatedly. ;)

jackbombay 02-04-20 10:48 PM


Originally Posted by julius rensch (Post 21313526)
Years ago (in the 1950's) a 14 yr old friend was riding down a steep hill on his Schwinn Phantom equiped with only a Bendix coaster brake. ...while coasting at high speed, upon hitting a bump, the chain jumped off...resulting in no brakes, into a busy intesection...he died there after being hit by a car.
I loved my English Indian Scout with front and rear handbrakes even more after that, so did my Mom & Dad.
Jules in Ohio

My bikes are always maintained quite well, there is always a chance of failure of any system, but the bike won't have fenders so I will have the secondary option of a foot on the rear tire behind the seat stays, or, a foot on the tire behind the fork crown, not a conventional means of stopping the bike, but as an old BMX rat its not totally foreign to me. Sorry for the loss of your friend :-(


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 21313627)
Yah, I just like to hear myself saying the same things repeatedly. ;)

I realize that this is an unconventional build, but it will be mostly ridden on quiet country roads/paved trails/small town...


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