So I may be able to snag a pair of British 3-speeds for my mom and dad. Are these nice to ride? I would guess so, haha. The samples I found are surprisingly inexpensive too.

they will probably need a larger rear sprocket and the need to be close to the right size. If they fit they are great for tooling around the neighborhood.

When I look at that bike I see what appears to be a plastic jockey wheel, which if original puts it after 1962.
I agree, the Snowflake crankset is usually older, but the three point style was also around in the late 50's, however, every 50's era Triumph I've seen had a Triumph only fork crown cap with a small T on each side.
I've also seen the snowflake pattern chainring on later bikes, but whether or not they were replaced or original is unclear. I don't put much weight on the style of the chainring other than the fact that I tend to see more with that ring in the early 60's models.
I also do not see any pump pegs, unless they are cut off, I believe the Triumph models lost the pegs in or around 1970/71 or so.
When a bike gets to be 50 or more years old, its hard to say what was original or not, only the selling dealer and the original owner can say for sure, and there's a good chance they're not here to tell use anymore.
From a replacement parts standpoint, over the years, I've found a good many of those snowflake cranksets sitting unused on dealer shelves over the years, but never found a three spoke pattern set.
My guess is that was the common or go to replacement. Also keep in mind that mid 50's and back, Triumph also used a chainring that spelled out TRIUMPH in the pattern.

If it were me, I'd save the alloy 54 hub for something older, they look cool but really weren't as strong as the steel hub shell models.
The lack of pump pegs, boxed Triumph logo, later style fork crown cap, say its after 1970 or so,
The old pedals say pre 1969.
I believe Triumph could have had Raleigh pattern rims from the factory but I don't recall ever seeing any on original bikes newer than the mid to late 50's.
A 50's era frame will also have the oil port on the BB shell.

What it all amounts to is that unless you find a serial number that someone can translate, likely on the seat lug or seat post, you may never know for sure what year it is. I've had dozens of Raleigh built off brands like that which proved basically impossible to figure the year or date. Its often just a matter of using what parts are at hand, be as period correct as possible and enjoy the bike.

If it were me, and you already have the Sun rims, I'd build it as you see fit, its not a super rare bike, and pretty much anything you change is reversible down the road.

For me, I only go to aluminum rims if I can't find any decent original rims to build. So far though I've always come up with either a good used wheel set or a clean enough set of rims to use.
If I had a spare set of Sun rims laying around, I'm sure I'd likely find a home for them on one of my bikes just to try a set, but I really like the look of chrome steel on my older bikes.
I reserve the Raleigh pattern rims for bikes I know came with them, but that's my preference and in most case a matter of saving the Westrick rims for the Raleigh branded bikes because I've always just found more Dunlop Endrick rims than anything else around here.

If neither of the rims are perfect, it makes sense to build a new wheelset.

From what I recall, I think 1954 was the beginning of Triumph being built by Raleigh, in Nottingham. So that hub under a Nottingham badge isn't completely out of place

Make sure your alloy AW hub has the correct spoke count for the Sun rims you have, I believe they made those in 32/40 and 36h versions. If they match, go for it.

(I have a 52 Schwinn Traveler with a 36h Alloy AW rear hub and back in the 90's. I also had a 1956 alloy hub (40H), with stainless Raleigh pattern (Westrick) rims and an original Dyno hub, on a Triumph 'Jack of Clubs' model, with drop bars and a brooks saddle. (It ended up being a casualty of a bad break up, a station wagon and the garage wall). All I have left from the latter bike is a damaged dynohub and rim from that bike hanging on the wall in the garage.

The BB threading will be Raleigh threaded.

man are you guys helpful. I like the cottered crank and I may get a press just to service this one.

I have built many wheels and have several aw hubs to choose from so something will surely work. I also run dynamo hubs on my bob Jackson and most of my other bikes. My real goal with the triumph is a reliable cross town bike that can do grocery runs. To that end I'll need lower gears. A top gear of 70 inches would be fine. I have some hills to deal with.

On a side note, the first good bike I regularly rode was an English 3 speed with 24" wheels. My grandfather and dad kept a stable of old bikes we 6 kids could ride. Always wanted to revisit that time.

The depth of knowledge on this site is really wonderful.

Larger rear sprocket? You mean a gear with more teeth? Are you saying by default it will probably be too low a gear and too strenuous?

almost everyone prefers a lower gear on them if you have any inclines.

1035116 is the serial number I am seeing on my triumph....
if I'm not mistaken this would roughly indicate 1970. Sounds reasonable.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ee966358be.jpg

Came across this at a sale today. They say it’s a 55. Asking $125. I wasn’t looking for one, but seems like a fun bit of tinkering. Would you 3 speed lovers snap this up?

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0c4b63136.jpeg

It could very well be a 55. White mudguards were found on many models around that time. The trigger and the rear hub will help zero in on it. IMO, that's in sweet condition and worth the asking, pending a test drive of course.

Around my way that wouldn't have any chance of selling at that price. I can't get that for a minty clean 3 speed men's model that's been stripped down and gone through with new tires.
I see ladies bikes as parts, thus they're worth the sum of their parts when you really need them, if they're in pristine condition.

I listed a 55 Sports right after Christmas last year, it as a tall frame, with a perfect wheel set, two new black wall tires, and a clean original Brooks saddle. I had it up for $150 and didn't get a single reply after two months.
I finally parts it out and sold the wheels, saddle, pump, bars, stem, and crankset on fleabay, I saved the tires for my own bike.
Along side it on CL I listed a rusty Sears three speed from the 60's, it was a lug frame, Austrian model but it had been kept outside for years. It was not rideable The rear hub was clean, and the cranks were decent, the rest was rusty.

It sold for my $100 asking price the following morning. The guy saw the Raleigh Sports when he picked up the Sears bike, asked how much, I told him $150, he said '"Too bad its not from Sears" and walked away from it.

I personally know a few dozen guys who are very into old English bikes, they each likely have a dozen or more bikes, a few have over 50 of them. I've never known any of them to pay more than $20 or $30 for any bike, but they'll spend ten times that for one part while trying to revive some old rusty mess of a bike that likely wouldn't sell here for a fraction of what they spent in parts.

I think its a matter of three speed bikes appealing to only folks that are primarily on a fixed income these days.

I passed on one just like this at the fleamarket last week, they wanted $50 and said they'd take $40 but I just didn't have room for another bike and I doubt if I'd get away with keeping one in the house.
They said I was the first to ask about it. It wasn't quite as clean as the one here but it wasn't bad and it was rideable. (I took it for a quick test ride but I was there to buy some produce not another bicycle. I feel pretty confident it'll be there again this week, and next week as well unless they give it away.. For $10 I'd drag it home and part it out I suppose.
It used to be a place where people spent money, but now folks walk around with maybe a two or three dollars in their pockets looking for super deals. Most never buy anything.

Too high and too strenuous (too hard to pedal). Yes, a larger rear sprocket than you have will reduce the pedaling effort in all gears. Most are in the 18T range and you can find Sturmey cogs up to 22T. I'm using a Shimano Nexus 24T that works just fine for me.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e23551ff7e.jpg

What I'm suggesting is that if the OP wanted to delve into a 3 speed as a project, that one is ripe. Sure, we've all found flocks of $25 Sports that are clapped out but a 50's model with quality chrome, little to no rust, pinstripes, decals intact and looking at the rear mudguard, you can see light reflecting off of the paint. It's a garage queen. Apart from the Schwinn grips, it's appears original and will outlast all of us. The fact that it won't sell to a largely uninformed public means nothing if you want a clean example of a quality bike.

That’s a great way to look at it. Well said. I drove by at the end of the day and it was still there. Maybe I’ll go by tomorrow and see if they’ll take less. I sort of want another Whitworth wrench anyways.

Oh, it depends on the model at hand in terms of what kind of collector you'll get. I know a couple guys who will pay hundreds and hundreds of dollars to import whole groups of bikes from England because they have spotted a couple rare models. The people who collect 3-speeds run from yard sale bargainers all the way up to high-dollar collectors who focus on pre-war road and racing bikes. And on top of that you have collectors of early 3-speed and similar bikes. Veteran Cycle Club has many members as well, from people looking for cheap stuff right up to high-end collectors. "Takes all types", as they say.

Yes...
Most of us here on thread are not as young as we once were.....
The addition of 2 or 3 teeth on the rear cog makes a big difference.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d98eb6a142.png
Not a 3 speed but too nice not to post
1970 Raleigh built Glider 5 speed with an asking price of $200.00
I converted one of these to a 3 speed and it's now my main bike.

smokin' deal!

Where in NJ is this that clean bikes are $20? I live in Brooklyn and will happily take a ride to get a bike like that for $20 or $30 even

I don't think he's saying there are $20-30 bikes in NJ, but that the only way any will sell there if if they are that cheap.

I get the same thing here, I list a clean original bike, regardless of what year, and get nothing, not at $50, not a $100, it don't matter.
I listed a minty clean 1975 Motobecane Grand Jubilee, all original, not even a scratch, and didn't get a single email on it in 2 1/2 years on CL or FB
I ended up parting it out and selling the parts that were easy to ship on fleabay. The frame did sell locally for $10 after about 4 years being listed.
The derailleurs and shifter sold for more than I was asking for the bike whole, and worse yet, nearly all the parts sold to a guy who wasn't more than 20 minutes from me,
He could have had the whole bike, ready to ride in the original box for half what he paid on eBay and in shipping online. Instead, he got the derailleur set, the bars and stem, the crankset,
and the calipers. The bike was listed in his area, on CL at that point for 2 years and 7 months prior to it going on fleabay.

Two years ago at least I got a sale every few weeks or more on CL, if I kept 100 items listed, at least a few things would sell every once in a while.

Last summer I had listed a minty clean Lotus that was too small for me, a 23" frame, The bike was full Shimano 600. on a Champion #2 frame. I had done a typo and left off a zero in the price and it had been up for five weeks at $30.
I only realized it when I spotted it here in a Panasonic thread. Yet still no one emailed about it. I watched as several talked about what a great bike it was and that its not far away but not a single email. I fixed the price and it sat for another couple months. I finally broke it down for parts to sell online. Its not just three speeds, no bike sells well on CL in my area either. Its worse on FB or Offerup.

When it comes to the Raleigh three speeds, regardless of the brand on the headbadge, I don't see much difference through the years. A few things changed here and there but they still ride pretty much the same. The oldest I've had was a 51 BSA, then a bunch of mid 60's models, and the latest was a '75 that looked like the one shown in that ad above. Of all the English three speeds I've owned, the only two to actually fail was the 51 BSA, and a 64 Hercules. The BSA frame started to sag, then finally the bottom tube pulled out of the head lug. The 64 Hercules got wrecked and the frame buckled after a front impact. Most of my three speeds I got for free of super cheap at the fleamarket here but lately the fleamarket has been empty, it never seems to have recovered from the covid shutdown. (Nothing but new item vendors now, hardly any used items these days.

I wish CL had a hit counter, so we could tell how many people actually have looked at a particular ad. Something tells me no one goes there anymore, the same with FB, Offer Up, and eBay.

27inch, I think maybe you are an old school seller in a new world. I don't know, I'm not someone who sells a bunch of bikes, though my wife wishes I was. I might suggest that if you are getting lots of interest from NYC or Philly, you can try to bundle customers and take 2 or 3 bikes to the city to show, with the agreement that each person would pay $10 or whatever towards your expenses if they don't buy. Do a little sight seeing and call it a day.

1947 Schwinn New World 3-speed out on a nice, summer evening.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ow217u8ys...722_183958.jpg

A bit of a tempest in a teapot. Our experiences buying and selling doesn't give us enough data to quantify or qualify bike markets. Online sales can muddy the waters imo. Being in the right place at the right time determines whether bike sales are cheap or expensive. I had a 50's Humber Sports for sale online (locally) for about a year at what I thought was a reasonable price of $150 Canadian and it wouldn't move. I took it down. 3 months later a couple saw me riding something vintage and asked me for a 3 speed. I got my $150 after all. Finding the right buyer or the right bike is the challenge.

Lately what i see on CL is there's only two types of people, the first are those that email you every time the bike goes to the top of the page saying they're interested in your bike, and leave a number, that no one ever answers. Or, you get an email asking when can they see it, maybe talk in the phone a bit and they say they're on their way, then never show. I've had 9 of those this week so far. Both from CL and FB. Rarely does anyone actually show up and just pay for something.
I've usually got a few hundred items listed both on CL and fleabay, I haven't had a single sale on eBay in a month, and noting on on CL in three weeks, not even the scammer emails. I've pretty much given up on ebay lately until I see things start moving again.
CL has never been this dead, nor has FB but FB has always been a waste of time. Most don't respond to messages or they sold the item and didn't have the courtesy take the ad down when it was gone.
Yard sales are usually pretty big around here, the last weekend in June four of us combined for a big yard sale, We put an ad in the paper, on CL and on FB, and put signs up for a mile around. Around sunup, we had four guys stop by, all wanted things for almost free. I put out a few older bikes, mostly cheap project bikes for $50 each.
The others had just about everything on the tables. I sold one push mower for $25 after an hour of him trying to buy it for $10.
Then after that it was 5 hours of absolutely nothing, not a car all day after that. A guy stopped as we were packing up on Sunday and said he had a yard sale about a mile from me and didn't sell a thing either.

CL and FB are full of junk bikes most of the time, I half can't blame anyone for not wanting to mull through page after page of junk to find a good bike. But usually the junk still sells, but lately, over the past few months, its been completely dead.

I don't know about anyone else but if someone calls or emails and tells me they'll buy something if I deliver it to the city, I pretty much just figure they don't want it that bad or they're pulling some sort of scam. I'm not driving 20 minutes to an hour plus gas and tolls to sell a bike to someone who will likely offer me $20 or so knowing I'm at the disadvantage having driven that far and spend the money in gas and tolls. I feel if they can't drive 20 miles to buy a bike, they just don't want the thing or don't have the cash. They can take a bus, find a friend, etc and come get it here. If I burn half a tank of gas in my truck going to the city, I'm losing money in the end. Its not that I'm being mean, just that with stuff not selling, there's not a lot of money left to play with these days.

I remember the good old days when this thread wasn’t 90% talk of buying and selling and 10% talk of actual bikes. Guess I should throw up a 3-speed pic to try and achieve some balance. Here’s a Peugeot mixte I’m nearly finished with, outfitted with an S-A 3-speed coaster brake hub (and this eliminating the need to deal with routing a rear caliper brake).

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5e35b42f3.jpeg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...40f82119c.jpeg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0a9fd57aa.jpeg

I love old Sturmey hubs, especially the really nice stuff from the 1950s and earlier. But I have to admit, that I think the modern 3-speed Sturmey coaster hubs are a better offering than the old TCW hubs. I've gotten TCW series hubs to work and work reasonably well, after tearing them apart, cleaning and re-building. This meant replacing any suspect parts with known good parts. But the modern 3-speed Sturmey hubs seem to have more robust braking, more reliable adjustment, etc.

The TCW bike I had was this 1946 Hercules - coaster in back and rod in front.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-hRs7WIXDT...218_155732.jpg

I worked reasonably well after extensive work getting all the bugs out.

But when I would go more "off script" in terms of customizing a bike. I'd opt for the modern Sturmey 3 speed coaster. I did a customized Manton & Smith (Western Flyer badge) 3-speed a few years ago, and opted for the modern hub:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-dar5gSGuB...1.14%2B001.JPG

And when I did a light customization on a 1959 Schwinn Tiger, I also opted for the modern hub 3-speed coaster to deal with hills.

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-vNuT8nhN8...8.14%2B006.JPG

I will admit that today, working from a blank slate as to the wheels, I'd go with the modern hub on whatever I built. You can get the old Sturmey 3-speed coasters to work and work reasonably well, but it's a disproportionate amount of work compared to the return you get once the hub is running correctly. It's just easier to buy the modern version and go with it.

I had the '51 Raleigh out for the first time the other day on an errand run. My first impression was that the Michelin World Tour tires are a pretty nice riding tire. I got a pair from Bike24, and shipping from Germany meant a bit of a wait. But at a total of $41 and change, I'd consider these worth it. It'd be nice if they were carried in the US, but $20 isn't a bad price for a decent tire. And they look right at home on the bike, too.

:thumb: Fantastic!

How did the shifter do?

-Kurt

Intro in an effort to . . .
 

Get to 10 posts to upload a pic of my latest effort.

In March, a buddy gave me two rusty relics to pass the time. I figured I’d make a coffee shop bike for each my wife and myself.

Let me know when you want to learn more, as it’ll give me a reason for Post #2!

[QUOTE=SirMike1983;22171975] I've gotten TCW series hubs to work and work reasonably well, after tearing them apart, cleaning and re-building. This meant replacing any suspect parts with known good parts. But the modern 3-speed Sturmey hubs seem to have more robust braking, more reliable adjustment, etc.

You really do have some beautiful bikes Sir Mike, and I enjoy seeing the ones you post.
I'll have to post my early 50's TCW hub before it goes back into its shell. It looks clean and functional & I'm hoping it works. I harvested it from a 24" girls bike with a very bent frame. I'm also hoping the front drum brake will help the TCW to slow down the roadster they'll be on. The only coaster brake I've used was a Sachs 3 speed that had less braking power in third gear and more in 1st, and I think the TCW is similar.

I got excited for a moment there, but no World Tours in 27x1 1/4" :( . They are a good tyre. I've been pleased with buying from Bike24 (Germany to Australia), and bought a pair of Alloy Westwood rims from them, that I still haven't laced up. My excuse is that I'm still building the space to build bikes in :)