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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

52telecaster 03-08-22 09:47 PM


Originally Posted by bikamper (Post 22433024)
The newest/oldest member of the 3 speed fleet.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...9be413ee_z.jpg
The badge says Huffy but the frame says Raleigh Sports. It has a weldment for a chain case and a BB oiler, so that dates the frame to early to mid fifties. Wheels are replacements from god knows when, though the AW is date 5/65. The chain guard and front fender are off an American built Huffy Sportsmen my dad pulled out of the trash.

This is what it looked like when I got it.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...90a61881_z.jpg

Excellent rescue!

gster 03-13-22 09:03 AM

With the price of fuel these days, our commitment to two wheels makes more and more sence.

dmark 03-13-22 10:53 AM

The rest of your garage looks interesting as well.

clubman 03-13-22 11:36 AM


Originally Posted by dmark (Post 22437426)
The rest of your garage looks interesting as well.

Ural sidecar rig?

nlerner 03-13-22 12:19 PM

Anyone keen for the ultimate 650A rim upgrade?

https://www.veloduo.co.uk/products/s...=shopify_email

bikamper 03-13-22 02:21 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 22437478)
Ural sidecar rig?

Yup. 2007 Gear Up. Strong like bull, smart like tractor. More fun than you are legally allowed to have, tho I foresee some dark days ahead for some Ural owners. At least in the short term. Myself, I'll be fine.

The cage is a 1948 DeSoto S-11 Custom Coupe. It's been in the family since 1978. The plate says SOTO DE because my oldest couldn't say DeSoto. She used to travel all over the midwestern junkyards with my mom and dad chasing down parts.

52telecaster 03-14-22 04:29 PM

Anyway to date one of these? Austrian aw knockoff... Very high quality.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...77c2ed0f91.jpg

FBOATSB 03-14-22 04:48 PM


Originally Posted by 52telecaster (Post 22439076)
Anyway to date one of these? Austrian aw knockoff... Very high quality.

It's supposed to have a date stamp, may be faint.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...37ac81e80.jpeg
Edit to add a link: https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...ind-specs.html

vintagebicycle 03-15-22 01:51 AM

They were licensed copies of the Sturmey Archer AW, basically a 1961 model SA hub made in Austria through the 1960's.
I've seen quite a few with no date stamp, both branded Sears and JC Higgins. I've had them dated as early as 1962, and as late as 1967. with just as many having no date stamp at all.
There were really no differences or changes through the years with those. All parts swap with an SA AW.

We always sort of figured that SA sold/licensed the rights to the older style hub to Daimler Puch once they switched to a fixed left side bearing cup in 1962/63.

thumpism 03-15-22 02:05 AM

Older 23" Sports for $40 in CT.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...83475143619396

https://scontent.fric1-2.fna.fbcdn.n...4Q&oe=62349D61

thumpism 03-15-22 02:07 AM

Rough Space Rider for $25 in NY.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...87025975786455

https://scontent.fric1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...PA&oe=6234F462

52telecaster 03-15-22 04:45 AM


Originally Posted by vintagebicycle (Post 22439485)
They were licensed copies of the Sturmey Archer AW, basically a 1961 model SA hub made in Austria through the 1960's.
I've seen quite a few with no date stamp, both branded Sears and JC Higgins. I've had them dated as early as 1962, and as late as 1967. with just as many having no date stamp at all.
There were really no differences or changes through the years with those. All parts swap with an SA AW.

We always sort of figured that SA sold/licensed the rights to the older style hub to Daimler Puch once they switched to a fixed left side bearing cup in 1962/63.

Great info thanks. No date on mine but a little penetrating oil freed it up immediately. Extremely smooth hub.

thumpism 03-15-22 06:05 AM

Way overpriced for the condition, but this SA 5-speed looks like a ladies' 23" frame. Features a crusty Brooks and those lovely pedals.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...17409806297040

https://scontent.fric1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...Lg&oe=6234B060

1989Pre 03-15-22 08:26 AM

Trum: Yeah, maybe $200.00 tops. It looks like all it needs is a news Brooks and an oiled cloth.

SirMike1983 03-15-22 08:38 AM

A couple of recent posts raised a question in my mind. Has anyone here pulled a Sturmey AW non-drive side ball cup/ratchet assembly (either the later punch-out ones or the earlier thread-off ones)? My habit has always been to use hubs with bad non-drive ball cups as donors for other hubs, but I find the concept of saving those hubs interesting. Also, I can't recall seeing a non-drive ball cup for sale on its own. Sheldon Brown recorded the method of removal (https://www.sheldonbrown.com/sturmey-archer/aw.html), but even after 20+ years of working on three speeds, I've never done it.

bikamper 03-15-22 05:39 PM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 22439721)
A couple of recent posts raised a question in my mind. Has anyone here pulled a Sturmey AW non-drive side ball cup/ratchet assembly (either the later punch-out ones or the earlier thread-off ones)? My habit has always been to use hubs with bad non-drive ball cups as donors for other hubs, but I find the concept of saving those hubs interesting. Also, I can't recall seeing a non-drive ball cup for sale on its own. Sheldon Brown recorded the method of removal (https://www.sheldonbrown.com/sturmey-archer/aw.html), but even after 20+ years of working on three speeds, I've never done it.

Ive knocked out several. Usually if I needed a different hole count for a wheel build and all Id have on hand is a TCW with the right number. Or if I was making a 2 speed fixed gear hub.

thumpism 03-16-22 04:19 PM

Turista! This ladies' loop is slightly overpriced for the condition at $150 in MD.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...70317576779167

https://scontent.fric1-2.fna.fbcdn.n...dQ&oe=6238408D

swampyankee2 03-16-22 05:00 PM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 22439489)

Just like my 72. My paint is marginally better, plus mines got a Brooks. I should buy it just for the chrome.

BanderAus 03-16-22 08:44 PM

I joined this forum because I bought my first 3 speed, a 1953 Hercules (Tourist maybe?). Will post pics when I can.

3speedslow 03-17-22 04:03 PM

^^ Looking forward to them!

junkpile 03-17-22 04:19 PM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 22439721)
A couple of recent posts raised a question in my mind. Has anyone here pulled a Sturmey AW non-drive side ball cup/ratchet assembly (either the later punch-out ones or the earlier thread-off ones)? My habit has always been to use hubs with bad non-drive ball cups as donors for other hubs, but I find the concept of saving those hubs interesting. Also, I can't recall seeing a non-drive ball cup for sale on its own. Sheldon Brown recorded the method of removal (https://www.sheldonbrown.com/sturmey-archer/aw.html), but even after 20+ years of working on three speeds, I've never done it.

Years ago, as a kid, I used to help out at a small bike shop where I grew up. The guy had been there for decades by that time and he sold many brands.
He had a press on the end of one work bench for changing out the later SA left bearing cups. It looked similar to an ammo reloading press, with a long handle and a fixture to hole the hub. To remove the cup, you set the hub into the correct side of the fixture base and pulled down the handle and out came the left cup, to install it, you flipped over the fixture base, and set the hub into the holder and pressed the new cup in place. He had a huge selection of SA parts, (and just about everything else as well).

I often wondered what happened to all those parts, he was a gray hair old man back then, (mid 70's or so), The place was completely gone by the mid late 80's when I returned home. I had gone there looking to buy a bike but the shop and house were gone. Where the house and shop used to sit had become the back parking lot for a convenience store.

I remember going to the parts shelf there and he had shoe box size metal drawers of SA parts, Every part number had its own drawer. It was the kind of place where if he rebuilt a hub, it got all new bearings, new springs if it had them, and new bearing cones regardless, and he charged a flat rate for the job.
He'd charge $15 to overhaul an SA hub, and $8 for a coaster brake hub. $3 to fix a flat, $5 if you wanted a new tube.

He used to tell me if I used any parts for my own stuff, make sure to write down what I used, but he never charged any of us for any of the parts. It probably wasn't worth the trouble unless you bought something really expensive, then he only charged us what he paid.
I rebuilt an early Norman 3 speed for myself back then, two new tires, two new Dunlop rims, a new rear axle and pawl springs, plus new bearings. new bearings everywhere else, new grips, a new saddle, and two new original pedals. I totaled up all the parts that I had used, it came to around $11. He told me I owed him for the tires, and not to worry about the rest. He said the two tires were $3, but refused to take any cash. That was some time between 1975 and 1978. I had the bike till the mid 80's when the right chain stay broke off the BB shell. We brazed it but it didn't hold, so it got hung in a wall in the garage and forgotten about.

It funny how stuff like that gets remembered after so many years.
The guy drove a musty old black '46 Desoto, the car had very low miles and he only used it when he went to pickup parts somewhere.
He had a '48 Ford that he said belonged to his wife, who had passed away years before, The Ford was his daily driver. Both cars were 'well aged' looking but not rusty. One of the last things I did while I worked there was to help him change the clutch in the Desoto. (On the ground, in the driveway in November int he dark after the shop closed). I would have loved to own either of those cars, neither one had more than 20k on the odometer. At the time, they were just 'old' cars and I don't think I had much interest in them then though. The guy just hated to drive his cars though and did most of his local errands on a bicycle or an old side car army motorcycle.

thumpism 03-17-22 05:41 PM

Rough ladies' 23" for $45 in SC.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...09263664447946

https://scontent.fric1-2.fna.fbcdn.n...Eg&oe=6238327C

SirMike1983 03-17-22 08:58 PM


Originally Posted by junkpile (Post 22442403)
Years ago, as a kid, I used to help out at a small bike shop where I grew up. The guy had been there for decades by that time and he sold many brands.
He had a press on the end of one work bench for changing out the later SA left bearing cups. It looked similar to an ammo reloading press, with a long handle and a fixture to hole the hub. To remove the cup, you set the hub into the correct side of the fixture base and pulled down the handle and out came the left cup, to install it, you flipped over the fixture base, and set the hub into the holder and pressed the new cup in place. He had a huge selection of SA parts, (and just about everything else as well).

I often wondered what happened to all those parts, he was a gray hair old man back then, (mid 70's or so), The place was completely gone by the mid late 80's when I returned home. I had gone there looking to buy a bike but the shop and house were gone. Where the house and shop used to sit had become the back parking lot for a convenience store.

I remember going to the parts shelf there and he had shoe box size metal drawers of SA parts, Every part number had its own drawer. It was the kind of place where if he rebuilt a hub, it got all new bearings, new springs if it had them, and new bearing cones regardless, and he charged a flat rate for the job.
He'd charge $15 to overhaul an SA hub, and $8 for a coaster brake hub. $3 to fix a flat, $5 if you wanted a new tube.

He used to tell me if I used any parts for my own stuff, make sure to write down what I used, but he never charged any of us for any of the parts. It probably wasn't worth the trouble unless you bought something really expensive, then he only charged us what he paid.
I rebuilt an early Norman 3 speed for myself back then, two new tires, two new Dunlop rims, a new rear axle and pawl springs, plus new bearings. new bearings everywhere else, new grips, a new saddle, and two new original pedals. I totaled up all the parts that I had used, it came to around $11. He told me I owed him for the tires, and not to worry about the rest. He said the two tires were $3, but refused to take any cash. That was some time between 1975 and 1978. I had the bike till the mid 80's when the right chain stay broke off the BB shell. We brazed it but it didn't hold, so it got hung in a wall in the garage and forgotten about.

It funny how stuff like that gets remembered after so many years.
The guy drove a musty old black '46 Desoto, the car had very low miles and he only used it when he went to pickup parts somewhere.
He had a '48 Ford that he said belonged to his wife, who had passed away years before, The Ford was his daily driver. Both cars were 'well aged' looking but not rusty. One of the last things I did while I worked there was to help him change the clutch in the Desoto. (On the ground, in the driveway in November int he dark after the shop closed). I would have loved to own either of those cars, neither one had more than 20k on the odometer. At the time, they were just 'old' cars and I don't think I had much interest in them then though. The guy just hated to drive his cars though and did most of his local errands on a bicycle or an old side car army motorcycle.

It's a shame so many shops like that are gone now, and the tooling scrapped or cast away into a basement somewhere. Guys like that knew a lot about these old bikes and the parts and hubs that went into them. Something like that press sounds like a very useful tool. For the press-in cups, Sheldon Brown recommended a hammer/punch to remove and a hammer/block to reset. A press with a controlled lever action would be a more precise and repeatable solution. But we have what we have now. The old bike shop in the closest city to the small town where I live closed about 10 years ago. I remember they had an unused Schwinn Black Phantom in the window that sat for years and years. I wonder where it went.

thumpism 03-18-22 06:38 AM

Dunelt camelback for $100 in NC.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...57156086534301

https://scontent.fric1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...6Q&oe=623A3EE2

SirMike1983 03-18-22 06:05 PM

Getting this 1964 Schwinn Traveler project ready for spring. It has been sitting more or less ready for final adjustment and testing for about two months now. Looking forward to warm weather and no more road salt...

https://blogger.googleusercontent.co...0PXJ4Adc=s4032

The Silver Bullet tail light goes well with a 1950s-60s era bike.

https://blogger.googleusercontent.co...yG7V5hOY=s4032

barnfind 03-19-22 03:59 AM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 22442609)
It's a shame so many shops like that are gone now, and the tooling scrapped or cast away into a basement somewhere. Guys like that knew a lot about these old bikes and the parts and hubs that went into them. Something like that press sounds like a very useful tool. For the press-in cups, Sheldon Brown recommended a hammer/punch to remove and a hammer/block to reset. A press with a controlled lever action would be a more precise and repeatable solution. But we have what we have now. The old bike shop in the closest city to the small town where I live closed about 10 years ago. I remember they had an unused Schwinn Black Phantom in the window that sat for years and years. I wonder where it went.

In the past 25 years I've cleaned out quite a few old shops, many had been sitting for years before the family decided to let it all go and either make use of or sell the property.
I think back in the day, having parts on hand was both a lot cheaper to do as the parts weren't nearly as expensive as they were in later years and bike manufacturers actually had parts distribution divisions. These days that just don't exist. Just about all parts are obtained through the aftermarket unless its a warranty issue, and even then they're more likely to just scrap the bike and replace it then ship out parts and pay labor. I think its as simple as the bikes don't cost the supplier as much as a few hours of American labor to repair it will. Manufacturers have gone to China for their bikes because they're cheap and it raises their profit margin. Many if not most are likely cheap enough to just write off when something goes wrong.

Back in the day, I worked for a shop that kept 50 of everything in stock, they had racks full of wheels, tires, rolls of every type of chain, huge assortments of spokes, whole rooms full of misc. parts to cover just about anything that came through the door. No body ever walked in the door and asked for something that they didn't have. Today, most dealers don't even carry spokes, many don't even do repairs, let alone building wheels or fixing frames. Forget doing anything but ordering a new wheel if an internal gear hub needs work.
I'm not sure if any of the local dealers here would even have a set of tires in stock. (I wasn't able to buy a set of cruiser tires three years ago). When I asked what they do if a customer comes in with a flat, he said he's got a mechanic that comes around once a week who does repairs. He had a list of repairs and their prices. One thing that stood out to me was "2 tire replacement with tubes - $45 plus parts"
When I asked where the mechanic gets the parts he said the guy leaves him a list every Thursday, he orders the parts, and he comes back the following Thursday to do the work.
He then pointed to the bottom of the page where it read "There will be a $10 special order parts charge on all parts ordered" and and "Outside Repair Fee of $15 on each repair".
When I asked out of curiosity how much they would charge to change two beach cruiser tires and tubes he said the tires are $39.99, tubes are $15.99, plus $45 labor, and a $10 order fee, and the $15 fee on the "Outside repair".. Two tires would have run someone $180 with labor and all their fees. He explained that without the $10 special order fee and the $15 outside labor fee he wouldn't make any money on the repair. The rest he said was out of his control. To me it sounded more like "I don't want to be bothered with repairs, go away". Most shops don't even assemble their own bikes, citing liability issues, they all use a roving bike assembler just like Walmart and Target.

As to the hub press, I had a rig years ago that came from a NY area shop I cleaned out 20+ years ago, they apparently sold mostly English bikes and were well stocked and well set up for repairs.
They had what looked like an adjustable height arbor press with a hub holding fixture. Among the parts that came from there were a few dozen left side bearing cups for later hubs, and dozens of new shells as well. The press looked like a combination of a small drill press and an arbor press, but it had a 30" arm on it and was gear driven. I wasn't sure if it was an adaptation of a reloading press, a machine shop tool, or something converted from leather working. The key was the fixture that held the hub. Like mentioned before, one side of the fixture was used to remove the left side, then the hub and fixture got flipped and the other side would let you push the new ball cup in place.
I also seem to recall there being an instruction sheet with the new bearing cups, I believe it stated that the new press in cups could be used to replace the threaded cups by simply pressing them in place and disregarding the threads.
I wouldn't do that myself since finding new or good used threaded cups isn't that difficult but I have removed a few left side cups and found threads, which made me think that maybe in the early transition days of threaded to press fit cups they were using up some threaded hub shells with the new press fit left side bearings cups.
Keep in mind that Sturmey Archer was just coming off the SW fiasco and had ended SW production in either late '59 or early '60, and had just gone through the T.I. buyout, then a little over year later they came out with the press fit left bearing cup.
I often wondered how much the losses from the SW failure contributed to them looking to save money on the AW to possibly recoup some of those losses. Possibly a strategy put forth by the new ownership.

Personally I never saw a problem with the press fit hubs, but I've likely got a few hundred spares and won't ever run out. I tend to use the hub style and date to match the bike at hand.

If using a mechanical or hydraulic press, take care not to over press the hub on reassembly. The hub shells are sturdy but they can be crushed. I found a few that were obviously 'failures' in the scrap bucket under the bench at that same shop.
Whether it matters much or not, but when replacing the press fit left side cups, I like to put a light coat of shellac or sealer with the thought of making that fit leak free. On threaded bearings cups, on both sides, I also use a tiny bit of liquid Teflon sealer to stop oil from seeping out through the threads. Of course this tends to eliminate the self rust proofing feature of these hubs.
I ran into a few hubs where someone used Loctite on the threads, all that did was make repairs harder than they needed to be.

BanderAus 03-19-22 04:58 AM


Originally Posted by 3speedslow (Post 22442384)
^^ Looking forward to them!

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...140f7bb36f.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3e73970344.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...39f16f6239.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...27c43b9ffc.jpg

swampyankee2 03-19-22 06:59 AM

A little after pic of the oily rag resto I did on the 72 Sports. Exumed from its 30 year entombment in a dank cellar, there's lots of rusty spots on the frame. I cleaned it up best I could, replaced tyres, and replaced some heavily rusted chrome bits with parts from a donor. Overall, I think it looks good enough going down the street.
The rims still have patches of pealed chrome on the the sides which will eventually tear up the pads, so I'll keep an eye out for replacements.
the spokes are dulled by oxidation. Any method of brightening them short of disassembly?
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f7714a4c30.jpg

gster 03-19-22 08:38 AM

Nice work. The bike looks like it's ready for some serious travelling.

gster 03-19-22 09:16 AM

1954 Mystery 3 Speed
I've posted this one before but I thought I would revisit...
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...986a8a23c4.jpg
By all appearances, this should be an English 3 speed Club bike.
The headbadge reads Gold Medal and is surely not original
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...355dba7f58.jpg
There is a Made in Canada sticker on the seat tube
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...190d1aeb28.jpg
The rear stay has an attached hanger for (I assume) a Cyclo derailleur.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7d552cd09d.jpg

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9b6cf51542.jpg
Rims are EA1
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d3112906ce.jpg
The Front forks are stamped Tru-welll Made in England
The BB is stamped Bayliss-Wiley, England.
My current best guess is that it's a Sunshine Club
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...05eac23b44.jpg
The chainring matches and the colour scheme is true to Sunshine bicycles
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0751cbe910.jpg
There is alsoa serial stamped number,Y5447....
Go figure....


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