Bike Forums

Bike Forums (https://www.bikeforums.net/forum.php)
-   Classic & Vintage (https://www.bikeforums.net/forumdisplay.php?f=181)
-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

1989Pre 09-10-23 12:06 PM


Originally Posted by PhilFo (Post 23011280)
What is the opinion regarding the stock Nicklin crankset from the Rudge Aero Clubman vs. a brighter Williams B100?
The Nicklin is fluted, 116bcd and possibly original to the bike, while the Williams is in much better condition.
The real issue I have with the Nicklin is that it has a 48 tooth ring and I really want to ride something smaller like a 44 tooth.
I’ve found limited information on the Nicklin cranks, though it would be nice to keep this on the Clubman as-original. I just can’t seem to find a proper 44 tooth ring which doesn’t cost more than the bike itself (granted, the bike was quite low priced.)
Anyway, opinions out there from those more in-the-know?
Thanks all!

I'm not sure what came stock on the Aero Clubman, but I have had great luck with Nicklin cranks. I run a double 46-49T (Raleigh-branded) on the Grubb, and, of course, the Rudge has a Nicklin.There is nothing wrong with them at all. They are actually, in my mind, kind of a trade secret and unsung hero, being made by Williams, but somewhat flying under-the-radar.
There are some nice ones with fluted arms. The arms on my double are chamfered and tapered.
That being-said, I try to sometimes match the "level" of the component with that of the frame, so when I shopped for a crank for my 531 frame (the Barnard), I bought a proper Williams (LC1200). Your frame is 531 Reynolds, as well, so my advice is if you buy a Nicklin (lots of British riders in 1951 used them), make it a good one. Have you tried Hilary Stone for a 116bcd 44T chain-ring?

tcs 09-10-23 12:13 PM

With a humble namaste to the fact that this is the Classic & Vintage forum, here's a different take on 'three speed':

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...73d849a655.png

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ab2c2f4602.jpg

PhilFo 09-10-23 12:22 PM

Thanks for the info. I haven't yet seriously reached out to anyone for rings. Just checked Hilary Stone and it doesn't look like any 116's in stock. I'll email to have them keep an eye out. I may just need to ask a local source, whom I don't really want to ask.

Here's a link to an album of photos I took of the Clubman:

Rudge Aero Clubman

Looking at these images, I see that my host stretched the thumbnails and the image previews; it also didn't properly rotate them, but I am feeling like not sitting at a computer and rotating images ad-nauseum so a thumbnail looks correct. If you open the image in a new tab or click the little box to maximize the image (small icon above each image next to a camera icon) it will show the image appropriately.
The album starts according to the most recent image I took, which is after I did a lot of cleaning. If you go to page 3, you'll see how the bike was as-delivered. That poor stem is just a curiosity at this point and a loss due to whomever drilled it then stuck in a sheet metal screw. Too bad since I love those lugs. I have a 1950s Titan on the way to hold a GB Maes bar.

thumpism 09-10-23 05:40 PM

Not a three-speed but too cool not to post. $200 in NY.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...43540366974460

https://scontent-iad3-2.xx.fbcdn.net...bg&oe=65030238

Unca_Sam 09-10-23 06:52 PM


Originally Posted by 1989Pre (Post 23011312)
I rescued a 1965 Hercules from the front of the local supermarket, where it had been abandoned. It needs a new rear tire and tube, but outside of that, it seems ready to go. It may be a juvenile size, because the bars are narrow and I noticed that the seatpost is short. The seat-tube is 20 1/2" c-t. I should be able to ride it, but will probably sell it. I re-packed the headset and front hub. I'll get around to the pedals and rear hub. If I keep it, it'll make a nice spare.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...387c53a6af.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...984dd84f67.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a38e57ed51.jpg

Abandoned???!!:foo:

SirMike1983 09-10-23 08:19 PM


Originally Posted by PhilFo (Post 23011280)
What is the opinion regarding the stock Nicklin crankset from the Rudge Aero Clubman vs. a brighter Williams B100?
The Nicklin is fluted, 116bcd and possibly original to the bike, while the Williams is in much better condition.
The real issue I have with the Nicklin is that it has a 48 tooth ring and I really want to ride something smaller like a 44 tooth.
Iíve found limited information on the Nicklin cranks, though it would be nice to keep this on the Clubman as-original. I just canít seem to find a proper 44 tooth ring which doesnít cost more than the bike itself (granted, the bike was quite low priced.)
Anyway, opinions out there from those more in-the-know?
Thanks all!

It sounds like you have the original fluted crank set on there. Stock is the 46-tooth club style chain ring, but those get swapped sometimes because you have the three-bolt spider instead of a swaged chain ring. I'd go with a larger rear cog before changing the chain ring size, unless there's something damaged about your chain ring. 48 front, 22 back is a nice balance with an AW hub. You can go all-in on climbing with a 48 front and 24 rear, though you do lose some top-end.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1e64d59aee.jpg

bharrisonb 09-11-23 07:08 PM

This summer I rescued (from the trash) a 1971 Raleigh Sports ... I needed to replace the tubes / tires, cables, and brake pads --- and to tune , lubricate and adjust to get it road worthy. Then, I decided to upgrade a bit ... new Brooks B67 saddle, pedal that would accept toe clips, a 22T cog to replace the 18T for lower gear ratios, a rear rack for panniers, and a great bell. Left the brown "Coffee" paint as is, and removed as much of the chrome rust (with Naval Jelly) as I could.

After 3 months, I have ridden about 350 miles , several 25+ mile jaunts. I love it!

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0fc8e26a6f.jpg
1971 Raleigh Sports at Dogtown Entrance - Gloucester

thumpism 09-13-23 03:12 PM

His 'n' hers Royce Unions here in town. $120 price might be for both. Unclear.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...52654360480310

https://scontent.fric1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...pw&oe=65065D96

PhilFo 09-13-23 08:00 PM

Opinions on the paint patching of the '51 Rudge Clubman? I have a few spots between the chainstays and a few places on the chrome of the fork which are in need of some sort of coating in order to prevent rust. I could have the color matched as close as possible and use a brush for the orange bits; I was thinking of making a mask to hold over the rusted chrome spots on the fork and hit it with a rattle can of chrome paint. Just little spots here and there, mostly in the front, unfortunately. For all the little nicks here and there, which don't go through to metal, I'm just going to cover it with a decent wax and shine it up good.

nlerner 09-14-23 07:58 AM

Well, here's a variation on a "Raleigh 3-speed": 1986 Raleigh USA Grand Prix framset, 650B x 38mm wheels, Sugino AT triple front with 46/36/26t rings, Shimano Exage Mountain front derailleur and Shimano thumb shifter, rear 18t single speed cog and an Ultegra RD to keep the chain tensioned. According to Sheldon Brown's gear calculator, that gives me 38, 52, and 66 gear inches, a decent range and much lower gears than I'd get with an S-A AW.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...492d6bd749.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e039150f26.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...311c4fabbb.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d91aa93258.jpg

I only took it on a short test ride and to take these pics, but everything was smooth. I might prefer drop bars to these uprights, and could probably raise the gearing a bit, too, likely going to a 16t freewheel. It was a fun experiment.

Salubrious 09-14-23 10:33 AM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 23015264)
Well, here's a variation on a "Raleigh 3-speed": 1986 Raleigh USA Grand Prix framset, 650B x 38mm wheels, Sugino AT triple front with 46/36/26t rings, Shimano Exage Mountain front derailleur and Shimano thumb shifter, rear 18t single speed cog and an Ultegra RD to keep the chain tensioned. According to Sheldon Brown's gear calculator, that gives me 38, 52, and 66 gear inches, a decent range and much lower gears than I'd get with an S-A AW.

I only took it on a short test ride and to take these pics, but everything was smooth. I might prefer drop bars to these uprights, and could probably raise the gearing a bit, too, likely going to a 16t freewheel. It was a fun experiment.

Why not put something like a Surly Singleator on there rather than a derailleur? Of course if you have the derailleur just laying around that makes sense, but you really don't need to have that much chain running through two jockey wheels.

nlerner 09-14-23 01:12 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 23015443)
Why not put something like a Surly Singleator on there rather than a derailleur? Of course if you have the derailleur just laying around that makes sense, but you really don't need to have that much chain running through two jockey wheels.

I have ordered a dedicated tensioners but while I wait for it to arrive, I thought I'd get some DuraAce bling on there (and had the RD in the bin). Much better looking than the usual tensioner in my view!

SirMike1983 09-14-23 07:30 PM

1940 Raleigh Model 35 out for a ride a couple of nights ago.

https://blogger.googleusercontent.co...912_183212.jpg

SkinGriz 09-15-23 12:45 AM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 23015264)
Well, here's a variation on a "Raleigh 3-speed": 1986 Raleigh USA Grand Prix framset, 650B x 38mm wheels, Sugino AT triple front with 46/36/26t rings, Shimano Exage Mountain front derailleur and Shimano thumb shifter, rear 18t single speed cog and an Ultegra RD to keep the chain tensioned. According to Sheldon Brown's gear calculator, that gives me 38, 52, and 66 gear inches, a decent range and much lower gears than I'd get with an S-A AW.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...492d6bd749.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e039150f26.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...311c4fabbb.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d91aa93258.jpg

I only took it on a short test ride and to take these pics, but everything was smooth. I might prefer drop bars to these uprights, and could probably raise the gearing a bit, too, likely going to a 16t freewheel. It was a fun experiment.

Nice. Iíve thought about doing this.

tcs 09-15-23 05:12 AM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 23015264)
According to Sheldon Brown's gear calculator, that gives me 38, 52, and 66 gear inches, a decent range and much lower gears than I'd get with an S-A AW.

Hmm. At a conservative 2:1 primary drive ratio:

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ba4a3c41a8.png

Salubrious 09-15-23 09:42 AM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 23015959)
1940 Raleigh Model 35 out for a ride a couple of nights ago.

https://blogger.googleusercontent.co...912_183212.jpg

Aren't all the 1940 AW hubs done in black? That was a year of very low production for SA, as production was shifted to the war effort.
If I had to guess, it looks like there is a different headset and stem installed from a post war bike although the headlight mount looks right. IIRC the quadrant shifter went out about 1938 when the first AWs showed up. There was some crossover WRT the shifter and the use of the type K and AW hubs. The trick though is finding the fulcrum stop which is entirely different on pre-war bikes, and the shifter. The quadrant shifter is much easier to find and puts notice to the bike being pre-war. The black cable clamps are a nice touch and hard to find!

What does the graphic on the seat tube look like?

nlerner 09-15-23 02:16 PM

Took the 650B 3-speed Raleigh Grand Prix for a 30-mile ride this morning with about 1K feet of climbing (so I got to use all three gears). It was fun! I forgot to note earlier that as shown it weighs around 22.5 lbs, so quite sprightly.

Salubrious 09-15-23 02:20 PM

This weekend is the All British Cycle Event in Minneapolis

missingspoke 09-16-23 01:37 AM

How long has it been since Michelin sold a French made 26x1 3/8" tire? (Marked 650x40A)

How long since Goodyear had one made in the USA? With the old GY tread pattern?

I happened to notice an old yellow 'Michelin Bicycle Tyre' sign in the window of an old hardware or farm store the other day so I had to stop.
They had a few old bike items sitting in the store front, one being an old hair pin saddle, and two styles of OLD saddle baskets.
I asked the elderly woman about other bike parts and she said she wasn't sure but I was welcome to take a look.
I left there with a trunk full of vintage tires, the baskets, the saddle, and a box of other misc parts they still had.
It seems that many years prior they sold Phillips, Peugeot, and Ross bikes but the owner said she and her husband took it over from the original owner in the 60's and dropped bikes in favor of power equipment. The bike stuff was just lingering all those years. From what I gathered the store was only open occasionally, a few days each month.

In the box of tires, a few are new, some are used, but all are in good to fair shape. One pair is marked Michelin Heavy Duty, its got the same tread as the so common Raleigh Record but its got super deep tread and a much heavier casing. One pair is a rather round shoulder looking set by Goodyear, with the old GY tread, those are used but surprisingly not cracked.
There are a pair of Made in England Raleigh Record tires, new but they show some age cracks in the rubber, three Dunlop branded tires that look nearly the same as the Raleigh tires, one pair of BF Goodrich tires in a very similar tread, and one pair marked Uniroyal in a shallower version of the same three row block tread. The new tires were marked $1.35 and $1.39.
The saddle basket, the one piece model was marked $4.99, the folding pair was marked $5.99. I also found a box of misc cables, which included a half dozen Sturmey Archer shifter kits, with cables and guide wheels, one new grip shift set, the saddle is marked made in USA. There were also a few pairs of 27x1 1/4 tires and a few pair of rims, which I also got. Plus a few old style reflector kits, some balloon tire fenders, and three boxes of 10 1/2" Torrington Spokes. The prices looked to be 1950's prices and once I made a pile, she rounded it all down to $30. I think she was just glad to see it all gone. I plan to clean up the old sign too and put it on the wall in my workshop downstairs.
It wasn't a huge haul but I think the original tires will look better on a few of my bikes then something modern. The two marked Michelin Heavy Duty are marked with the size 650x40A and are wrapped as a pair, one is marked 'Avant seulement' the other 'Pneu d'entraÓnement', (all markings are in French. The tread is slightly different on the two tires, with the rear tire being thicker with more sidewall thickness. Sort of an old Raleigh Record tread but beefed up a bit. They're a bit taller than most 26x1 3/8 in tires but not much wider. The difference is mostly in the tread height.

I do remember buying heavy duty tires years ago from Pep Boys, branded Cordovan, and sold as Newsboy tires in various sizes. They were meant for heavier loads and rough use. I had a pair on an old Columbia three speed in the early 70's. I don't remember ever seeing any Michelin tires in this size before.

Don't get me wrong, I know there are modern tires, but I just just thought finding a box of 50 year old survivors was pretty amazing. Especially since they all seem good enough to ride on.
I have four bikes waiting for my time, so now those will get period correct tires. I'll keep my new Michelin World Tour tires on my daily rider though.

I do plan to make a trip back there to do some more digging, but I think I got all the bike parts, but the small engine stuff looks just as old.

oldlugs 09-17-23 01:10 AM

New or used it never hurts to have some spare 26x1 3/8" tires on hand, especially older style tread designs.
I do remember someone selling an extra heavy line of bike tires, I had a few sets that I doubled up with rim strips and thorn resistant tubes when I was living in an area with lots of chipped slate and red rock roads. They were tough to get on the rim but never got cut, not so much because of what they were made of but because the tread was so much deeper. Normal bits of broken auto glass didn't get embedded and pushed through the tire, they just got trapped in the tread until you picked them out.
With pea gravel roads and driveways they were a mess, once on pavement it sounded like a hailstorm as the thread let go of the tiny rocks.
It could have been Peo Boys that was selling them here but there was one dealer that sold lots of bikes to the local factories and they were always after tougher tires. They also had foam tires, (no air needed) to fit a 590 rim.
The Goodyear tires are likely early 50's, the Uniroyal tires may be just as old. I've seen Dunlop tires as late as the mid 60's on some TI bikes, and Raleigh Record tires ran to the end around 1980 or so, the later tires had reflective strips which I believe got added around 1968 or so. I know my 1970 Sports had them when new.
Most of the Uniroyal tires I've seen in these sizes were chain tread, but I had a 1960 or there about Columbia Sports with a pair that I believe were factory tires with block tread. I have several pair of 60's vintage Western Flyer scripted tires made in USA in this size that came from a yardsale in front of a closing shop in MO about 10 years ago. They were like new when I got them so I wrapped and shrink wrapped them to preserve them. I did the same with some original Goodyear and Carlisle balloon tires when I realized they were going away back in the 80's, now, 40 years later I'm wishing I stored more black wall tires too.

I would take any of those tires you wish to save, that are in decent shape, and wrap them in plastic if your not going to use them right away, then seal them in a bag for longevity. Oxygen and ozone are the enemy of rubber.

tcs 09-17-23 07:25 AM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 23016343)
Aren't all the 1940 AW hubs done in black?

Is there even such a thing as a date-coded '1940' AW? Hmph. I dunno, might be.

I saw one AW stamped '9', following the single-digit K-series 1930s indicator for 1939. All the other early AWs I've seen are marked 'Patent Applied For' or 'Patented' with no date stamp (and all chromed shells, BTW). Hadland and Clarke report that the first AWs weren't date stamped to allow the supply chain to empty of K hubs before the newer hub design came on the market. This also prevented Sturmey from having to foist off to an OEM a hub stamped '7' (1937) in 1940. They further chronicle that in 1939-1941 Sturmey built all the hubs they could, running two shifts, to warehouse for sale during the war. At some point in 1941 they were contracted and tooled up to build war material, mostly munition fuses, and hub production ceased. Sales were low during the war and they didn't run out of stockpiled hubs until the summer of 1945, at which point low-volume hub production had restarted.

AFAIK the '37~'38 AW hubs, the '40~'41 hubs and hubs built in '45~'46 are stamped 'Patent' as above with no date. The familiar two-digit date code we all know and love began in 1947.

arex 09-19-23 02:31 PM

https://scontent-den4-1.xx.fbcdn.net...jQ&oe=650EBEBB

52telecaster 09-19-23 02:37 PM


Originally Posted by tcs (Post 23016127)
Hmm. At a conservative 2:1 primary drive ratio:

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ba4a3c41a8.png

I routinely go a bit below the 2-1 ratio with no I'll effects. Currently have a 40/21 that works fine. Also I'm 210lbs.

thumpism 09-19-23 08:22 PM

I sold these way back when, nice little Sturmey-equuipped bikes. This one does not have the factory fitted folding rear baskets. $125 in CT.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...88715269066098

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...XQ&oe=650F0321

rjhammett 09-19-23 09:45 PM

Picked up this Raleigh Space Rider from a fellow BF member a couple days ago. I cleaned it all up, polished it, put on new tires and added the basket. In a few years my granddaughter will be big enough to ride it.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9da9a0dc06.jpg

SkinGriz 09-20-23 12:38 AM


Originally Posted by rjhammett (Post 23020557)
Picked up this Raleigh Space Rider from a fellow BF member a couple days ago. I cleaned it all up, polished it, put on new tires and added the basket. In a few years my granddaughter will be big enough to ride it.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9da9a0dc06.jpg

Beautiful bike.
What size wheels?

rjhammett 09-20-23 12:21 PM

24"


Originally Posted by skingriz (Post 23020600)
beautiful bike.
What size wheels?


Sedgemop 09-20-23 05:25 PM

Rusty, but still a good deal, I think. I'd ride it.

vintage raleigh 3 speed bike $100 Lockport, IL

Facebook IL Raleigh

Vintage Raleigh 3 speed bicycle. Has a brooks seat on it. No pedals.

https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net...Pw&oe=650F8D14
https://scontent-dfw5-2.xx.fbcdn.net...Dw&oe=65108739
https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net...7A&oe=651050AF

Johno59 09-22-23 04:33 PM

Plastic pain
 

Originally Posted by rjhammett (Post 23020557)
Picked up this Raleigh Space Rider from a fellow BF member a couple days ago. I cleaned it all up, polished it, put on new tires and added the basket. In a few years my granddaughter will be big enough to ride it.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9da9a0dc06.jpg

Treat the kid with a leather saddle. I know the sprung vinyl was issued but they are terrible and we're one of the reasons Raleigh went broke. They are simply awful and errant springs have ripped many a pretty dress.

rjhammett 09-22-23 04:52 PM

I have this one and a light alloy seat post waiting in the wings. I will install them when she is ready to ride it.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...75cd4bc18c.jpg



Originally Posted by Johno59 (Post 23023253)
Treat the kid with a leather saddle. I know the sprung vinyl was issued but they are terrible and we're one of the reasons Raleigh went broke. They are simply awful and errant springs have ripped many a pretty dress.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:05 AM.


Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.