What does the tape where the spokes cross do?

I switched rims on an existing wheelset, replacing Super Champion Gentleman clincher rims. I got lucky that the spoke length was just fine for the Schwinns but the orientation wasn't thee way I wanted it so I couldn't tape the rims together and move them one by one. Instead I kept the drive side laced and used the tape to held everything in place and laced the non-drive sides.

Aha- thought it was maybe some secret wheel building trick that results in quick-n-easy perfectly and eternally true wheels ....! And it all reminds me I need to get to work on building up the tubular set of wheels for my Holdsworth..

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Having resurrected a fine Vittoria Pave 30mm onto Campagnolo Record Strada rim, I have, for the first time I can remember, if not ever, managed to roll the tyre slightly on the rim. Just a few millimetres from centred, but consistently around much of the rim and enough to be visually noticeable. If nothing else the iconic green stripes show up the situation. Having applied my usual three thin coats of Continental tubular cement to the rim bed, two to the base tape, with a final rim coat just before fitting, and left things to set for days a now slightly crooked valve stem also confirms all is not well between the two.

Rim had been cleaned with isopropyl alcohol, as had the tubular base tape after a previous Effeto Mariposa Carogna tape adhesion and removal.

I’d like to wear out my two remaining Pave 30s before delving into new stock of Corsa 28s, but I’m not sure what more I can do to avoid a rotational recurrence.

Any similar experiences from long-term users of both cement and Carogna? Any suggestions short of removing and replacing the base tape, which for me is a bridge too far…?

I've mentioned this before, but will repeat myself. I sent one batch of tires to Tire Alert several years ago. His prices at the time were lower (maybe low twenty bucks range?). I was disappointed in the result. One, the valve stems were much too long for vintage bikes/tires/rims. Two, his stitching was problematic. The casings weren't flat, but ridged, as if he'd nugged up the thread too tight. I don't recall how many tires I had him repair, but quickly decided it was "one and done" for me. I'm not sure I ever used any of them except as spares.

I agree with masi61. Better to just hunt around for good deals on new tubulars you like. Or spend the time to learn how to repair them yourself.

seagrade I don’t understand the issue. Did the isopropyl alcohol dissolve the base tape glue? If the tire was centered, would there be room for it under the brakes? I think your Bianchi wants 23s or 25s maybe.

Although it looks otherwise there’s sufficient clearance under the rear brake and seat stay bridge for the 30mm tubular fitted, both when initially fitted and centred and as it is now rolled a few degrees from centred. Maybe 2-3mm clearance the caliper arm at the centre bolt, more everywhere else. The fork is a different story with clearance for a 25mm Vittoria and no more.

I’m about to remove the tubular but I’m pretty sure the base tape remains securely attached. My initial suspicion is that in spite of cleaning the base tape with isopropyl alcohol some residue from the Carogna tape remains and hasn’t played well with the Continental cement. Will report back for those with a passing interest in such esoterica…

Were you setting the tire down on wet cement or cement that had tacked up nicely to grab the tire when you laid it down? I like to wait 15-25 minutes after the last glue before mounting the tire. Now some tires are not sewn evenly and want to sit a little off. They probably need the tackiest glue to keep them from going to their natural position. (And some stay a little off no matter how hard you try. Get better tires. And I think Vittoria has had teething issues with their factory in Asia. Those Open Paves may have been from that time. The Corsa G+ (I assume; most have come information free but they look very similar to the clincher equivalents) 28s I've used have been pretty darn sweet! Mount as nice as anything I've ever used. I bet your 28s will go on nicely.

If it were me, I'd just ride the heck out of those 30s and do my best not to look! Done many miles on crooked sewups and nothing bad ever happened. And I love Open Paves. Never ridden them in tubular simply because I went back two years ago and they were passe.

Thanks for taking the time to reply. The Pave 30s have a raised seam in the centre of the base tape, as do many tubulars, but set up fairly straight on the rim. Since I started with tubulars in 1984 I’ve always fitted the tyre soon after applying the last coat of cement to the rim bed, so as to be able to move and straighten the tyre, rather than have it stick fast first time. No problems this way over the years, although it’s not using the cement as a contact glue in the true sense.

Anyway, removing the tyre indicated the problem was between the tubular cement and the rim bed, rather than between the cement and the base tape. The Campagnolo Record Strada rims have a smooth and hard finish, and in spite of light sanding to give some texture, and subsequent isopropyl alcohol clean, haven’t held the cement well. Back in the day I used a hardened steel scribe to scratch parallel lines between spoke eyelets, but don’t have such a tool these days. Carogna tape worked well on the same rims previously, but the instructions for that say to leave the rim bed smooth for best adhesion.

The rear tyre had certainly moved enough not to keep riding it, and more importantly wasn’t sufficiently stuck to keep riding safely. At this stage I’ll remove what’s left of the cement from the rim bed while deciding whether to scribe it before trying again, or revert to Carogna tape which previously worked all too well with the same tyres. Curiously, the front tubular, a 25mm Corsa, has stayed true and remains well adhered despite being fitted the same way as the rear…

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I finally finished cleaning the old glue residue off the Schwinn rims. As I've mentioned, there was very little on them and it was fairly brittle. For better or worse I used fiber abrasive wheels in a Dremel to clean them off. It worked well, eye protection and a mask is suggested because they create a fair amount of dust as they wear. I used Effeto Mariposa tape to mount the tires.It was pretty straightforward and the tires mounted easily and fairly straight after being inflated on the rims for a couple of weeks. I have no idea when I'll be able to try them - winter storm is coming!

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Beautiful ascherer !!! I'm glad you tried the Effeto Mariposa tape.

Consider their mastic remover gel in the future. I'm currently working on a pair vintage Roval wheels. One was covered in the red (Clement?) mastic and the other in a white mastic. A thin covering of gel and wait 24+/- hours, followed by scrubbing the surface with a green Scotch pad soaked in hot water and rinsed often. No toxic fumes, no dust, and no flying eye debris. I did need to repeat on the red mastic one. Several places where the mastic was thicker didn't remove with the first pass yet came clean with a second application and scrubbing.

to note, I have used a brass wire wheel in a drill for old glue removal, have to wear eye protection but does a good job with no damage to the rim

hopefully will get to using mounting a set of FMB cobblestone tires to ambosio nemesis rims this weekend (tape this time around....)

https://www.excelsports.com/vittoria...ular-road-tire

Vittoria

Corsa G2.0 Tubular Road Tire

On for $48.00
Was $129.99
https://images.excelsports.com/publi...e/120977-1.jpg

^^^ Caught my attention when I saw the 25mm width in the photo. When I clicked on the link, I see the actual offering is for a 30mm tire. Anyone, am I missing something here? $48 is a great price in my view, but 25mm is as wide as I can go.

Dean

I chased that same rabbit. (I want 28s.)

Hardly.

It's become more apparent to me recently (when shopping on-line) that images of stuff being offered on-line too frequently don't match what ends up in your cart.

More than onced I've had to cancel an order when the confirmation doesn't reflect what I thought I'd been buying.

I bought some Continental glue from *mazon that was clearly advertised in text and photos as a box of 12 tubes; good price but not ridiculously low - about a dollar per tube. Then only one tube was delivered. I complained and they refunded my payment, so I got the one tube for free. I think the seller copied somebody else's ad or something and didn't pay attention.

I posted that deal a month ago and if I recall correctly other sizes were available. I imagine they simply sold out.

I bought a few then. Another seller abandoning tubulars?

SEAGRADE :

Stay away from Continental glue. The stuff is worthless. Continental make great tires which I am v. partial to, beginning with their Sprinter. But Continental's glue is beyond worthless. I've been at this for over five decades and inasmuch as Clement "red" is sadly gone......... Vittoria Mastik 1 IS exceptional. It holds!!! I trust your tires were not loose when mounted, a tight fit is essential. I also mount the tire when the glue is just applied and wet. That is critical. I only glue the rim, never the tire, which just prior to final mounting is wiped on the base tape with lacquer thinner to open the pores for the wet glue to go into. You should get excess between the tire and rim which, after you've centered the tire with a increase from 5psi at time of mounting to then around 25psi, you pump up to 40psi and let it stay there for 24 hours, wiping off the excess glue with lacquer thinner (NOT isopropyl....., that does NOTHING!!!) on a CLOTH rag. You want some excess to bleed out, an indication of full coverage.

And why in God's name are you combining worthless tape with glue? Stay away from tape!!!!! Just glue. You NEVER mix the two. You're skating on thin ice the way you've botched this. Undo. Get rid of the tape, Re-glue with Vittoria.

Totally disagree with some of the negatives I read here for Continental glue (can only speak for their aluminum rim version). I used Vittoria's mastic for many years when using Vittoria sewups and even for Sprinters. When I started using the Sprinters more and more I went to Conti Glue in the individual tubes. I could never tell a performance difference between the two brands of glud.

If you follow Continental's directions online you will not experience problems, aside from good luck removing a tire on the road (just make sure you are carrying 1 metal tire iron). I also have to think that if there is a potential for a difference in formulations, it may be best to use Vittoria Mastic with Vittoria sewups and Continental glue with Conti sewups.

I've been using Continental glue since I re-entered the tubular world 20 years ago - I don't remember what I used back in the 80's.
Continental tires, Vittoria tires, Specialized tires, Challenge tires, and Michelin tires. Mavic 330s and HED aluminum rims. Cold rides, rain rides, and one Eroica. Never a problem, and always damn hard but not impossible to remove a tire on the road or in the garage. It's available and it's good.

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How much glue on the dog's nose?

Is biketiresdirect.com now the best source for decent deals on sewups? Any other recommendations to look at?

Thanks.
Guy

I don't think any one place is the best. You have to look around and be patient.