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-   -   Totally Tubular (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=154679)

63rickert 08-15-18 08:48 AM

Skip

60 psi is probably enough, with reservations. Are you sure your gauge is accurate? When gauges are off, and most are, they will more likely give a high reading than a low reading. For those who pump to 140psi it just doesn't matter if the real pressure is 120. If your 60 was really 50 it could matter. There is a situation where how-low-can-you-go stops working, even if it feels fine while just riding along. Downhill nearly all the weight of bike and rider is on front wheel. Under hard braking all of the weight of bike and rider is on front wheel. Braking on a bike will produce a maximum g force of 0.5 to 0.6. So under hard braking 200# of bike and rider place a load of 300-320# on the front tire. Again, for those who inflate high it won't matter. If anything compressing the tire against the road a bit probably improves handling. But if the real pressure is 45 or 55 who knows. And then you hit a rock or a pothole. There is a whole lot of practical experience that says many of the fine distinctions us obsessives indulge make no difference. There is not all that much practical experience with quality supple tubulars at real low pressures. In the context of riding bikes daily on public roads the ultra low pressure CX riders have been using for only a few years doesn't count.

Patriot1 08-15-18 09:01 AM


Originally Posted by shakeNbake (Post 5927298)
Hey guys,
I've decided to dabble into the dark arts (tubulars), so I bought a pair of used Mavic GP 4. Now the question is, should I clean the old glue off the rims?


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2154/...c8d36467_o.jpg

I use acetone free finger nail polish remover remove all of the glue. I use Tufo tape and it works fine and I have no concerns about rolling a tire off the rim.
The tape is also much easier to remove than the glue and removes much cleaner. FWIW...

Patriot1 08-15-18 09:03 AM

I carry my spare tub in this saddles bag.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...739d55248.jpeg

Wileyone 08-15-18 09:13 AM

Has anyone tried the Challenge Elite Pros? They are on sale at PBK for $31.49. I have tried cheap Tubs mainly the Giros and the Rallies and wasn't impressed. I was wondering if these are any better?

https://www.probikekit.ca/bicycle-ty...chcurrency=USD

jimmuller 08-15-18 10:25 AM

IIRC, I've tried removing old glue with acetone, and it didn't work very well. I should try again, I suppose. However when I just re-glue onto such rims and then have to remove one that flatted the tires hold very nicely. So mostly I don't worry about it.

I had a flat on a new-ish Veloflex a few weeks ago. I had put some Stan's into it but it didn't seal itself very well. I did manage to ride the remaining way home. Maybe it wasn't enough so I added more Stan's, pumped it up, saw a little white puddle form on the floor. Hmm. :( Pumped it up, watched the leak subside. Pumped it up to 140psi, my usual start-ride pressure. Rubbed my hand over the leak area and made the leak spring again. Apparently I had broken off part of the seal which had protruded to the edge of the tread. Rotated the tire so that the fluid would settle in the leak area, pumped it further. Let it subside. Rubbed my hand over it again later, no leak. Is it fixed, I wonder? How robust would it be? I decided not to risk starting a morning commute on it, grabbed another bike. The seal still held some time later. I may deflate the tire and try closing the moderate cut in the tread with mastic, then re-inflate for a test ride.

SJX426 08-15-18 10:37 AM

@shakeNbake - I realize this is a looooooong thread, but in it is a recommendation to use a BRASS wire wheel. It worked really well for me and did not score the finish on the rim. Much faster than using chem's/

squirtdad 08-15-18 05:58 PM

Challenge Criterium Tubular (320TPI) black and white $31.93


https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/chall...0tpi/#pid=6584

Wileyone 08-15-18 06:04 PM


Originally Posted by squirtdad (Post 20508609)

Challenge Criterium Tubular (320TPI) black and white $31.93


https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/chall...0tpi/#pid=6584

But only in 22m. Those Day's are over.

Lenton58 08-16-18 02:28 AM


Originally Posted by 63rickert (Post 20507556)
Skip
60 psi is probably enough, with reservations. Are you sure your gauge is accurate? When gauges are off, and most are, they will more likely give a high reading than a low reading. For those who pump to 140psi it just doesn't matter if the real pressure is 120. If your 60 was really 50 it could matter.

I agree. You might get away with 60 psi if your gauge is accurate. But why? I weigh 74 kg. I use about 100 in the rear ... or whatever is needed to rid of any distortion on the road with my sitting in the saddle. In the front, 80 psi is my usual preference.

Lenton58 08-16-18 02:38 AM


Originally Posted by shakeNbake (Post 5927298)
Hey guys,
I've decided to dabble into the dark arts (tubulars), so I bought a pair of used Mavic GP 4. Now the question is, should I clean the old glue off the rims?

My opinion: yes, ALL of it, and down to the bone when the glue is browned off and dry. I use a wire wheel on the hardened, brown stuff. If it is still a bit pliable, I soften the glue with acetone and then use a trusty SPOON with a front edge that closely conforms with the dish in the rim. Works a treat!

Wildwood 08-16-18 01:52 PM

As stated, best to remove the glue, and +1 for use of a brass wire wheel. :thumb:
I also subscribe to the theory of 'diminishing returns'; and it may be better for the rim if a small amount of hard, dried glue remains rather than grind away to get the hardest glue spots off. For rims with excessive dried glue, I use wire wheel then a solvent. But for a wheel with minimal glue and zero flaking, I have glued over it without an issue. With so many tubular wheelsets (8), I check them regularly for issues, both adhesion and tread condition.

Many people glue to excess - probably me!!!

63rickert 08-16-18 02:30 PM

The red glue in Patriot's photo up above is pre-historic mastice gutta. Comes off easy and quick with paint thinner. Which we used to do when it got on side of rim or wherever.

I can remember removing tape from other people's used rims. Only worth it if the rim is something rare. Otherwise 51 years on tubulars and don't think I ever removed glue. Wouldn't breathe solvent fumes just for that.

Peugeotlover 08-16-18 03:13 PM

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d61f89de6e.jpg

I gave up on stinking, messy chemicals. An electric drill with wire brush or abrasive attachment wheel will clean a tubular rim quickly, thoroughly and without damage.

Do wear gloves, because when it slips the spinning wire wheel hurts. Goggles a good idea, too.

Vince Hoffmann 08-20-18 07:45 AM


Originally Posted by Steve Whitlatch (Post 20314074)
The glue I removed with Goo Gone was red. I am not sure the Goo Gone did much besides act as a lubricant and keep the glue form just moving to another spot and sticking. As the glue comes off with the steel wool it gets coated with goo gone oil. That is my guess anyway. Those glue remover chemicals never worked for me very well. The Goo Gone made it easy and cut the time in half. :)

I don't use solvents, they're too messy. I use a brass wire wheel on my bench grinder. Turn it on to slow rotation and go to work on the glue. Works great and does not damage the rim but the best part is there is no nasty glue residue to clean up.

squirtdad 09-11-18 03:09 PM

has anyone tried these? I know I got the original link from C&V?

Mavic Reflex CD Ultegra Tubular Wheel Set

Mavic Reflex CD Ultegra Tubular Wheel Set


Steve Whitlatch 09-14-18 10:36 PM

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...99e039a147.jpg
I picked up a box of glue from a shop going out of business. Never tried this glue but the price was right. Anything I need to know?

smontanaro 09-15-18 04:58 AM


Originally Posted by Steve Whitlatch (Post 20566877)
I picked up a box of glue from a shop going out of business. Never tried this glue but the price was right. Anything I need to know?

I don't know quite how much information you want, but here's how I do it. Mount new tires to clean rims and inflate to pre-stretch them for a day or two. When applying glue, I use paste brushes (get 'em at your local -- or not so local -- art supply store) and wear disposable gloves. I inflate the tire enough that it holds its shape, then stand it up on the workbench leaning against the peg board. In my case, I have a 250gr can, but with a tube it's similar. Get a little blob of glue on the brush, press enough with it on the base tape that the brush fans out and unload the glue. Then lightly spread it out all the way to the edge of the base tape on both sides. Lather, rinse repeat. Application to the rim is similar. You want full contact between the rim and the base tape so make sure you get the glue to the edges of both the rim and base tape. I find that having the wheel in my truing stand makes rim application much easier. Assuming you are starting with clean rim and tire, one application on tire and rim, wait overnight, then a second application. After 10 minutes or so, install the tire, inflate enough so the tire holds its shape, then adjust the tire to center it properly. When you're happy you've got the tire perfectly straight (or as straight as your patience allows), pump to 100+ psi so the base tape is fully engaged with the rim and let it sit for awhile (overnight is best) before using the wheel.

I know it sounds involved and very slow, but it's one of those things I find kind of therapeutic, so I don't mind the time or process. HTH...

steelbikeguy 09-15-18 06:35 AM


Originally Posted by Steve Whitlatch (Post 20566877)
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...99e039a147.jpg
I picked up a box of glue from a shop going out of business. Never tried this glue but the price was right. Anything I need to know?

other than the fact that it looks like Juicy Fruit gum... the one thing that I remember about Tubasti is that it stays tacky.
By comparison, stuff like Conti glue will get properly firm when it cures. In fact, you could say that it gets hard to the touch.
Tubasti, IIRC, stays rather sticky and will stick to anything. Possibly handy when it comes to a spare tubular, and perhaps nice to have on the rim when you need to install a spare.
The only thing I recall is that when the tube leaks, it gets all over anything nearby and is tough to clean up! :)

well, there's also the poem that Aldo Ross on the Classic Rendezvous list wrote:

Tubasti on the sidewalls
Tubasti on the spokes
Tubasti on my workbench
Sticking to the nuts and bolts

Tubasti on my fingers
Tubasti on my arms
Tubasti on my chin and cheeks
I hope it won't cause harm

Tubasti on the light switch
Tubasti on the cat
Tubasti on my shoes and socks
And on my car's floor mat

Tubasti on the carpet
Tubasti in my hair
I tried to glue just one damn tire
Now Tubasti's everywhere!

don't say you weren't warned. ;)

Steve in Peoria

Homebrew01 09-15-18 06:39 AM


Originally Posted by squirtdad (Post 20508609)

Challenge Criterium Tubular (320TPI) black and white $31.93


https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/chall...0tpi/#pid=6584

Good tires ??
Never tried them.

jcb3 09-15-18 07:23 AM


Originally Posted by Steve Whitlatch (Post 20566877)
I picked up a box of glue from a shop going out of business. Never tried this glue but the price was right. Anything I need to know?

I really like tubasti - totally old school and most appropriate for C+V. It does get all over the place, but that is part of its charm - a Saturday afternoon with tubasti everywhere: priceless!.

Mineral spirits (aka thinner or coleman fuel) works well for cleanup, the secret appears to be only use the rag for a wipe or so then replace, otherwise the glue on the rag just spreads.

As far as applying, instructions says rim only. I'm not usually comfortable with that so will apply to the basetape as well then let it dry for an hour before mounting. You will need a thick coating for it to work. I apply a blob and spread with an acid brush - usually two segments between spoke holes per blob - try to keep it off the outside of the rim. I wipe the top edge of the rim with a rag and mineral spirits before mounting, otherwise the tire sticks while pushing the tire over the edge.

Take a slow spin around the block to even out the tire. I'll glue up a tire and then couple days later deflate it and test the hold. If it comes off easily, I didn't put enough on. Rip the tire off and put more on the rim. A quick rub of mineral spirits on the tire softens up that glue for mounting. Agreed it stays tacky.

If all this scares you, I'll be glad to take the tubasti off your hands.

Joe

Steve Whitlatch 09-15-18 02:57 PM

Thanks for the heads up on Tubasti being messy. I will wear throw away painters clothes and cover the area with drop cloths when I glue with it. I got a bit of the stuff on my pants and hands when I opened one up to check if it was still good. I wish I had seen this before I did that. LOL

It seems to be a bit thin and wet compared to Continental glue. I will figure it out. I`m sure the first tire I glue will not look very pretty when I am done. By the third tire I will be a pro. :)

CV-6 09-15-18 05:57 PM

One disadvantage (IMO) of Tubasti is its color. White.

Classtime 09-15-18 06:46 PM


Originally Posted by jcb3 (Post 20567184)
I really like tubasti - totally old school and most appropriate for C+V. It does get all over the place, but that is part of its charm - a Saturday afternoon with tubasti everywhere: priceless!.

Mineral spirits (aka thinner or coleman fuel) works well for cleanup, the secret appears to be only use the rag for a wipe or so then replace, otherwise the glue on the rag just spreads.

Joe

A bit of thread drift but.... Coleman fuel is Mineral Spirits?! In California, "paint thinner" has replaced Mineral Spirits on the shelves at the paint and hardware stores so the s is good news to me. I think we still have white gas.

Colnago Mixte 09-15-18 06:49 PM

Not sure what Coleman fuel is, but "mineral spirits" "paint thinner, and "white gas" are all the same thing:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_spirit

Steve Whitlatch 09-15-18 06:53 PM


Originally Posted by CV-6 (Post 20568108)
One disadvantage (IMO) of Tubasti is its color. White.


White? Mine looks the same color as Continental glue. Maybe mine is an older or newer formula?


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