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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

nlerner 07-12-18 03:08 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 20443524)
Very nice build, but you should be aware that the alloy FMs have a distressing quality of ejecting their guts right through the hub body (no worries with the steel versions, and no worries with the alloy FWs). Alloy FMs should not be used for anything other than something to look at- maybe an ashtray or something.

Thanks for the heads up, but I've had that wheel on a bunch of different bikes for quite a while now--so far, so good. We'll see if I need to grab an Uber if it fails in the middle of a long ride.

markk900 07-12-18 03:38 PM

@nlerner - as you might remember I had a mid-70s Wes Mason myself (in the mid 70s)...now that I see your frame it is very different - mine had wrap over seat stays and a sloping crown on the fork...

anyway - love the build - did a similar build to get a 531 based IGH using my trek 600 - but ended up with flatter bars (didn’t like the drops overall).

markk900 07-12-18 03:41 PM

@BigChief: my current favourite saddle is the b67 I bought new - now that it’s adapted itself to my rump its a wonderful saddle - spends its days on the 49 Humber but it has moved around

ddeand 07-12-18 04:31 PM

Don't know if anyone has tried this before, but it's new to me. Since I started messing with 3-speeds, one of the things that has been uncomfortable for me is the vintage grips that were on the bikes. The simple round ones seemed to small for my hands, and the ones with finger ridges didn't match up with my grip. Now, if I were building garage queens that wouldn't be ridden, I'd definitely leave the original grips on the bike. But I ride my Raleigh much more than I thought I would (errands, moderate rides of 15-20 miles), so I started looking at grips that would be more comfortable.The other day in the shop, I had somewhat of an epiphany, which is rare on account of all the brain cells I've murdered over the years. With supplies on hand, I put together a pair of very nice grips that are super comfortable. Here's what I did:
1. I had length of wide heat shrink tubing that I use to secure the bar tape on my road bikes. Got it on eBay a couple years ago.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c16495b721.jpg

2. I rummaged around and found an old pair of mountain bike grips that I had swapped out years ago. They are clamp-on, so they will be easy to remove.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2725fac813.jpg

3. Then, I dug through my scrap bag and found some old bar tape that I removed from my road bike last year. I keep it around for padding when I rewrap my bars.

4. I cut two pieces of shrink wrap off (about a quarter inch each) and set them aside.

5. I wrapped the mtb grips just like you would wrap a road bar. I used a small piece of tape to hold the bar tape as I started it.

6. When I had the bar tape on the way I wanted it, I slid the shrink wrap over each end and heated it up with me heat gun (don't get the gun too close to the grip).

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0449170f9c.jpg

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...10542ace10.jpg


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...39e8b3195d.jpg

Turned out pretty nice and very comfortable!

desconhecido 07-12-18 05:15 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 20444099)
Thanks for the heads up, but I've had that wheel on a bunch of different bikes for quite a while now--so far, so good. We'll see if I need to grab an Uber if it fails in the middle of a long ride.

Looks to me like you have this question (century on an IGH) solved. And, a very nice build it is, too. Long as it doesn't assplode. What's the cog on the rear? I'm guessing 19t.

I have only one 4 speed and that's a 4 speed dyno hub that I bought from a forum member. It's built into a wheel with a 40h Dyad and I have the build into a SC MKII about half way done. Having a bit of trouble getting the shift from fourth to third to not pause at the neutral in between. Haven't spent enough time with it to determine whether it's the hub or the shifter that's hanging. The shifter is from a 51 step through -- a 3 or 4 speed one. Worked fine on that bike. MIght just need to have the cable replaced. Anyway, it's a steel shell so when I get it on the road it likely won't be assploding all over the place. I hate it when that happens.

BigChief 07-12-18 06:33 PM

The 51 Rudge I'm working on now is my oldest project bike so I have some learning to do. As found, it had this steel kickstand attached.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...548b5a4baf.jpg

It's a poor fit to the frame, looks aftermarket to me. The first mention of a Raleigh factory kickstand I can find is here in this 1951 catalog. It was a cast version offered as standard on the Superbe. There is no mention of kick stands in the 1948 parts catalog. As best as I can tell, Raleigh's light roadsters didn't come with them until the 1951 Superbe.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6bddbfab53.jpg
I may be wrong, if anyone here can correct me, please let me know, but I'm betting the clunky steel stand on the Rudge wasn't original factory equipment and this gives me the right to chuck it. The bike wil get a nice 70s cast alloy Pletscher ESGE .

clubman 07-12-18 08:22 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 20443359)
Total weight on my hanging scale as shown is about 22.5 lbs.

...I'll take it for a 20-30-mile test ride in the next day or so and decide if it'll suffice for a century ride next week.

Really nice build Neal!

clubman 07-12-18 08:26 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20444442)
I may be wrong, if anyone here can correct me, please let me know, but I'm betting the clunky steel stand on the Rudge wasn't original factory equipment and this gives me the right to chuck it. The bike wil get a nice 70s cast alloy Pletscher ESGE .

i think we've discussed this but why wouldn't you want the Raleigh spec stand. It won't crush your stays and is elegant.

Please let me know if you want one.

BigChief 07-12-18 10:25 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 20444628)
i think we've discussed this but why wouldn't you want the Raleigh spec stand. It won't crush your stays and is elegant.

Please let me know if you want one.

I have one...somewhere. Saw it a couple of years ago when I tried it on a 64 Sports project. Lost track of it since. I'm sure I didn't throw it away, but I didn't like it. Very tippy. I'm reasonably sure this bike didn't originally have a stand, but this one put a dent in the left chainstay, so I'd like to cover it, but I'm not at all satisfied with the Raleigh stand.

BigChief 07-13-18 06:48 AM

I cleaned up and polished the frame and front end chrome. Came out really nice. No rust issues anywhere. I added a spot of paint where the steel kickstand damaged the left chain stay and gave the small tube at the lower rear mudguard mount an extra coat because it seemed to be a spot that might collect moisture, but there was no rust even there.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...81eabbd0f8.jpg

I tried using varnish to repair the cloth cable housing covers, but found it was too light to hold the loose fibers down against the housing like I was hoping for. I went to plan B and mixed up some JB Weld with very little of the white hardener in the mix so it would stay black. I soaked the loose fibers with the glue and waited about 45 minutes until it got thick and gummy. Then I was able to roll the housing in my fingers and press down the frayed fibers. This time they stayed in place.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e6432eabd3.jpg

paulb_in_bkln 07-14-18 06:43 AM


Originally Posted by ddeand (Post 20444270)
Don't know if anyone has tried this before, but it's new to me. Since I started messing with 3-speeds, one of the things that has been uncomfortable for me is the vintage grips that were on the bikes. The simple round ones seemed to small for my hands, and the ones with finger ridges didn't match up with my grip. Now, if I were building garage queens that wouldn't be ridden, I'd definitely leave the original grips on the bike. But I ride my Raleigh much more than I thought I would (errands, moderate rides of 15-20 miles), so I started looking at grips that would be more comfortable.The other day in the shop, I had somewhat of an epiphany, which is rare on account of all the brain cells I've murdered over the years. With supplies on hand, I put together a pair of very nice grips that are super comfortable. Here's what I did:
1. I had length of wide heat shrink tubing that I use to secure the bar tape on my road bikes. Got it on eBay a couple years ago.


2. I rummaged around and found an old pair of mountain bike grips that I had swapped out years ago. They are clamp-on, so they will be easy to remove.



3. Then, I dug through my scrap bag and found some old bar tape that I removed from my road bike last year. I keep it around for padding when I rewrap my bars.

4. I cut two pieces of shrink wrap off (about a quarter inch each) and set them aside.

5. I wrapped the mtb grips just like you would wrap a road bar. I used a small piece of tape to hold the bar tape as I started it.

6. When I had the bar tape on the way I wanted it, I slid the shrink wrap over each end and heated it up with me heat gun (don't get the gun too close to the grip).
Turned out pretty nice and very comfortable!

As I've gotten older I've noticed hand and wrist discomfort on longer rides so I'm all for discarding any received wisdom in favor of whatever is effective. If your DIY grips work well, great, and they look good, too.

paulb_in_bkln 07-14-18 06:50 AM

Both the AW hubs I have in use have developed a reluctance to stay in first gear, even with the shift cable pulled tight (really tight). Is this a symptom of weak pawl springs?

ascherer 07-14-18 07:36 AM


Originally Posted by ddeand (Post 20444270)

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...39e8b3195d.jpg

Turned out pretty nice and very comfortable!

Great solution! I’m “borrowing” the heat shrink approach for my road bikes to be sure. I have large and bony hands, and I find that shellacked cork grips give me a good fit with reasonable shock absorption for our rough city streets.

SirMike1983 07-14-18 12:12 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20444442)
The 51 Rudge I'm working on now is my oldest project bike so I have some learning to do. As found, it had this steel kickstand attached.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...548b5a4baf.jpg

It's a poor fit to the frame, looks aftermarket to me. The first mention of a Raleigh factory kickstand I can find is here in this 1951 catalog. It was a cast version offered as standard on the Superbe. There is no mention of kick stands in the 1948 parts catalog. As best as I can tell, Raleigh's light roadsters didn't come with them until the 1951 Superbe.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6bddbfab53.jpg
I may be wrong, if anyone here can correct me, please let me know, but I'm betting the clunky steel stand on the Rudge wasn't original factory equipment and this gives me the right to chuck it. The bike wil get a nice 70s cast alloy Pletscher ESGE .


That is a later, aftermarket stand. Then tend to mash the chainstays in particular (that's the type of stand that mashed the stays on my Sprite). The 1970s Raleigh ESGE stands are a good replacement (Raleigh Model A, I think).

BigChief 07-14-18 06:19 PM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 20447358)
That is a later, aftermarket stand. Then tend to mash the chainstays in particular (that's the type of stand that mashed the stays on my Sprite). The 1970s Raleigh ESGE stands are a good replacement (Raleigh Model A, I think).

Yes, the ones sold by Raleigh with the R-A stamp. Those are the ones I look for. They have the ears on the top plate that extend down and lock it in alignment with the rest of the stand. I think these require even less torque than the ones with independent top plates to hold firmly. The difference between these and the alloy Raleigh stands isn't just a little. It takes a far greater force to knock the bike over if it's fitted with an ESGE.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...bbbc557ade.jpg

Velocivixen 07-14-18 07:39 PM

@BigChief - What a lovely bike. Thank you so much for posting your progress. I have always wondered if and how to disassemble a flick shifter, as I have some that need work on the “innards” but I couldn’t figure a way to get apart, or get back together.

If you end end up doing any disassembly or spring replacement I would be happy if you could post some up close photos. I appreciate your efforts.

johnnyspaghetti 07-14-18 09:24 PM

I figured this 1956 sports was worth $50. Kind of rough.Haven't had an "AW" hub before. What are the differences compared to an "SA"hub?https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5ff4e47f4a.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...032c83b4de.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8a6d6bd6bd.jpg

BigChief 07-15-18 04:53 AM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 20448061)
@BigChief - What a lovely bike. Thank you so much for posting your progress. I have always wondered if and how to disassemble a flick shifter, as I have some that need work on the “innards” but I couldn’t figure a way to get apart, or get back together.

If you end end up doing any disassembly or spring replacement I would be happy if you could post some up close photos. I appreciate your efforts.

It's a fun project, like hubs, to undertake. Disassembly is easy. All you need is a work area where you won't loose tiny parts, the right size punch and something to support the front of the unit as you drift the pins out. A board with a hole would do.
The two headed pins are only press fit into the back wall of the case. Once you drift them clear of that, the whole assemble comes apart. The 2 tiny pins in the trigger are loose. Be careful not to loose them. I have a photo gallery showing both styles of triggers disassembled. There's also a handy picture showing the correct position of the cam against the trigger. Getting it back together is the tricky part because you have to get the two headed pins lined up to their holes while everything is under pressure from the pawl spring. There's a trick to that that I would be happy to describe in detail anytime. I love shop talk.
shifter gallery

BigChief 07-15-18 05:12 AM


Originally Posted by johnnyspaghetti (Post 20448227)
I figured this 1956 sports was worth $50. Kind of rough.Haven't had an "AW" hub before. What are the differences compared to an "SA"hub?https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5ff4e47f4a.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...032c83b4de.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8a6d6bd6bd.jpg

Hard to see in these pictures, but it looks like you might get a window shifter, some silver cable housings, bottom bracket parts, fork maybe? a 56 AW and a dyno hub out of it. Too bad about the seat stay. Don't know if the frame is reparable or not.

gster 07-15-18 06:59 AM

Robin Hood Update
Despite trying various solutions, this Robin Hood still seems to wander at low speeds.
I even swapped out the front wheel with no improvement. I still like it.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...edb8c19cfa.jpg
I found a nice little saddle bag here in Toronto at the Dollarama for $4.00.
We'll see how long it holds up.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...cc520a9ab3.jpg
I've also added an old "SOTAM" bell.
Sounds like the Ice Cream Man.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...af88c39d8e.jpg
Meanwhile, someone I know is looking for a bike and I'm thinking of offering a choice of one of these.
1971 Hercules
1964 Eatons Glider
1972 Raleigh Superbe
All have been rebuilt and are ready to go.
I can offer a better price if I swap out the leather saddles for vinyl.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...55c09802e0.jpg

johnnyspaghetti 07-15-18 08:32 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20448504)
Hard to see in these pictures, but it looks like you might get a window shifter, some silver cable housings, bottom bracket parts, fork maybe? a 56 AW and a dyno hub out of it. Too bad about the seat stay. Don't know if the frame is reparable or not.

I figure th GH6 is worth it alone, Everything turns well but the rear cable is seized. Again, English style brake cable routing. Good crank & pedals.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...768bdf4c75.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5e4977f9b2.jpg

BigChief 07-15-18 09:07 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20448590)
Robin Hood Update
Despite trying various solutions, this Robin Hood still seems to wander at low speeds.
I even swapped out the front wheel with no improvement. I still like it.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...edb8c19cfa.jpg
I found a nice little saddle bag here in Toronto at the Dollarama for $4.00.
We'll see how long it holds up.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...cc520a9ab3.jpg
I've also added an old "SOTAM" bell.
Sounds like the Ice Cream Man.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...af88c39d8e.jpg
Meanwhile, someone I know is looking for a bike and I'm thinking of offering a choice of one of these.
1971 Hercules
1964 Eatons Glider
1972 Raleigh Superbe
All have been rebuilt and are ready to go.
I can offer a better price if I swap out the leather saddles for vinyl.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...55c09802e0.jpg

Nice day for a ride here today. Heavy overcast but no rain. Been riding the semi scorcher lately. I tend to binge ride different bikes. You're lucky. I don't know a soul that wants old 3 speeds and I really need to start getting rid of a few. It's on my list of things to do.:rolleyes:

BigChief 07-15-18 09:19 AM


Originally Posted by johnnyspaghetti (Post 20448708)
I figure th GH6 is worth it alone, Everything turns well but the rear cable is seized. Again, English style brake cable routing. Good crank & pedals.

Oh, you got a bunch of nice stuff there. The whole crank and pedals look good. Even the mudguards and chainguard look like they could be smoothed out and repainted. Hope you can salvage the cable housings. Hard to find good 50s silver ones like that. I'll be doing my very first Dyno hub soon. There's a good rebuild video for them on youtube. Looking forward to that, but If I have any daylight left after chores today, I think I'll ride instead of wrench.

DQRider 07-15-18 01:10 PM

Carlton's First Sunday Morning Ride
 
Some of you know that I've been fiddling with this first-generation Raleigh/Carlton Super-Course 3-Speed conversion. I've named it "Carlton" because I name all my bikes, and it seemed to be the most natural sobriquet to use on this build.

Who knew I would find so much trouble keeping rear wheel alignment with these slick, chrome rear dropouts? But the normal anti-rotation nuts I got from Harris Cyclery always crack and fall off, and the other ones I found online work great for preventing axle rotation, but they tend to slide back and forth so I always end up with tire-rub on the chainstays!

This has been a most vexing problem, but I finally zeroed-in on root-cause and corrective action, so that this bike now rides the way I wanted it to all along. Unfortunately, the key to the solution is a plastic doodad that I pilfered from an old Peugeot Versailles, which fits inside the dropout and prevents the non-drive side from sliding backwards, and a Surly "Hurdy-Gurdy" to keep tension on the chain. (no photos yet, sorry) And I know this is not a permanent solution, because as soon as the chain starts to stretch, I'll have to figure out what to do with the non-drive side to keep it in alignment. One idea is to rough-up the chrome dropout on that side and do some fine file work on the A-R nut. That should cause enough friction to keep it in place (I hope...).

But enough of all that, here are some photos from this morning's ride to a local coffee shop called "Amore":

https://i.imgur.com/DFsW9KK.png

https://i.imgur.com/aFmCHKS.png

https://i.imgur.com/vtlsjsG.png

As you can see, and just like Goldilocks in the children's fairy tail, I tried several different parking locations; none of which were "just right". You see, in my rush to get going this morning, I forgot to bring my lock. So I went inside and asked the nice lady behind the counter if I could bring my bike in with me. She said, "Sure, no problem. Just park it against a wall somewhere."

So I did. Then I ordered a blended iced mocha, found a good book on the shelf, and settled in for a nice morning treat:

https://i.imgur.com/CvNXS0p.png

Afterwards, it being Sunday and all, I decided to ride over to the bluffs where I could at least have a nice view of the Cathedral while I meditated on the meaning of life and whether Internal Gear Hubs really are the One True Way to velo-motive happiness.

https://i.imgur.com/vAU8nDm.png

May St. Urmey-Archer bless you all, so that you acquire the wisdom to avoid false neutrals and resist the temptations of the Evil Derailleur.

.

arty dave 07-15-18 04:57 PM


Originally Posted by DQRider (Post 20449083)
https://i.imgur.com/vAU8nDm.png

May St. Urmey-Archer bless you all, so that you acquire the wisdom to avoid false neutrals and resist the temptations of the Evil Derailleur.

.

For thine is the Pinion, the Pawl and the Pawl Spring, forever and ever, Lubricate. Nice background for your bike!


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