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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

nlerner 11-13-18 05:18 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20660774)
That looks like a fun ride. Nice job. A light weight roadster has been in my daydreams for a long time. Every time I see a new one here, it motivates me all over again. I like this one a lot.

Thanks, BC! I did try to install a chainguard, but clearance on that TA crankset is tight, and I didn’t have quite the right clamp in the bin, so I figured I’d skip it for now.

BigChief 11-13-18 06:27 AM


Originally Posted by Johno59 (Post 20660871)
QUOTE]
As someone else pointed out, clear coat is meant to have topcoat and a primer between it and the bare metal. Moisture can pass thru the clearcoat and attack the naked steel that is/was showing in the first instance.
The trick is to use a rust converter that acts as a primer . I use Jenolite for my sympathetic restorations. I thoroughly clean the frame first making certain you don't dissolve the decals to remove oil grease etc., lightly sand with very fine wet and dry keeping it very light around the original stickers.
The Jenolite Is applied with a brush and wiped off as per instruction.
I then us a two pack clear coat (K2 two pack used by the auto industry ) but applied with a brush. The whole rustic mood isn't compromised by the hand painting and allows generous applications on underside, inner side of chainstays, forks and fenders where rust damage is most likely to have been a problem and/or likely to re/occur.
Being clearcoat it does not hold the brush lines and gels nice and smooth. The thickness also seals the rougher lifted areas around decals , heavier scratches etc that feature on any well worn surface. In my experience a aerosol application will struggle to seal these rougher critical areas. It also makes touching it up a breeze and you only need to mix a tablespoon full.

I didn't know moisture could penetrate clear coat. So far, I've only used it over paint. Raleigh also used a bonderizing on their frames before enameling. Most of the rust problems I've had were with the sheet steel mudguards and chrome. Waxing the bikes has worked out very well for me over the years. When you remove light rusting from chrome, it tends to return, but not when you protect it with wax once or twice a year and keep the bike in reasonably dry places. I'm going to say that a fresh coat of wax every now and then will preserve DQ's frameset even if the clear coat is insufficient.

Johno59 11-13-18 06:36 AM

Wax recommendation
 

Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20660957)
I didn't know moisture could penetrate clear coat. So far, I've only used it over paint. Raleigh also used a bonderizing on their frames before enameling. Most of the rust problems I've had were with the sheet steel mudguards and chrome. Waxing the bikes has worked out very well for me over the years. When you remove light rusting from chrome, it tends to return, but not when you protect it with wax once or twice a year and keep the bike in reasonably dry places. I'm going to say that a fresh coat of wax every now and then will preserve DQ's frameset even if the clear coat is insufficient.

Good idea. What kind of polish would you suggest and do you strip the frame when do/redo it.?

DQRider 11-13-18 07:44 AM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 20660741)
I posted this bike in another thread, but thought I'd put it here, too, as it is a 3-speed of sorts: I acquired a fairly beat Peugeot PX-10 frameset and in trying a variety of wheel sizes, discovered that EA3/590mm wheels would work with a set of Weinmann 750 center pull calipers. I had to build a front wheel to match the rear (solid-axle Normandy hub and Sun CR-18 rim), but otherwise used French and English bits that were in the bin:

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4851/...8ce09487_c.jpg

Total weight as shown is about 23.5 lbs, partially because the rear AW is in a 36-hole alloy shell. I've yet to ride it much and will commute on it later this week, but it felt stable and quick in my brief test rides.


Wow... well done! This looks like something I would build. :thumb:

How much heavier do you think it would be with a standard 36h AW steel shell?


.

56ford 11-13-18 07:54 AM

I read in a thread somewhere that someone used Eastwood Patina Preserver. It’s essentially a clear coat intended for this very use. It says it stops the rust and further corrosion so it must have some rust converting characteristics to it.

It’s amazing what some products can do. A long time ago I had a guy tell me to treat rust inside my 55 Chevy doors to just put CWF deck seal in a squirt bottle and spray it down fully. It worked great and a lot easier to apply than trying to paint in there.

DQRider 11-13-18 07:56 AM


Originally Posted by Johno59 (Post 20660871)
QUOTE]
As someone else pointed out, clear coat is meant to have topcoat and a primer between it and the bare metal. Moisture can pass thru the clearcoat and attack the naked steel that is/was showing in the first instance.
The trick is to use a rust converter that acts as a primer . I use Jenolite for my sympathetic restorations. I thoroughly clean the frame first making certain you don't dissolve the decals to remove oil grease etc., lightly sand with very fine wet and dry keeping it very light around the original stickers.
The Jenolite Is applied with a brush and wiped off as per instruction.
I then us a two pack clear coat (K2 two pack used by the auto industry ) but applied with a brush. The whole rustic mood isn't compromised by the hand painting and allows generous applications on underside, inner side of chainstays, forks and fenders where rust damage is most likely to have been a problem and/or likely to re/occur.
Being clearcoat it does not hold the brush lines and gels nice and smooth. The thickness also seals the rougher lifted areas around decals , heavier scratches etc that feature on any well worn surface. In my experience a aerosol application will struggle to seal these rougher critical areas. It also makes touching it up a breeze and you only need to mix a tablespoon full.


I appreciate your methodology here, but I do actually know what I'm doing.

"The Must for Rust" product I use is what you call a rust converter. Using a light scouring pad to apply it cleans and protects in one step.

And the clearcoat paint I use is Rust-Oleum "2x" Ultra Cover gloss clear:
https://i.imgur.com/dyhLYQW.png


The 2x is primer and paint in one product, which is the reason I started using it in the first place. I think my results speak for themselves, and I haven't had any problems with recurring corrosion (yet...).



.

Johno59 11-13-18 08:36 AM

Do you wax?
 

Originally Posted by DQRider (Post 20661028)
I appreciate your methodology here, but I do actually know what I'm doing.

"The Must for Rust" product I use is what you call a rust converter. Using a light scouring pad to apply it cleans and protects in one step.

And the clearcoat paint I use is Rust-Oleum "2x" Ultra Cover gloss clear:
https://i.imgur.com/dyhLYQW.png


The 2x is primer and paint in one product, which is the reason I started using it in the first place. I think my results speak for themselves, and I haven't had any problems with recurring corrosion (yet...).



.

As you rightly say your results speak for themselves. Do you put a polish on after your final aerosol application ?

56ford 11-13-18 08:38 AM

I like DQRider’s methodology. A multi step approach over a one spray fix all makes more sense. I can’t wait to do it to my Hercules.

BigChief 11-13-18 08:47 AM


Originally Posted by Johno59 (Post 20660962)
Good idea. What kind of polish would you suggest and do you strip the frame when do/redo it.?

There's a lot of different compounds you can buy, but I'm happy with just the 2 stages you can get at the auto parts store. Rubbing compound and the finer polishing compound. The only time I've stripped paint is when they were over painted and there was no original finish left to preserve. In fact, I like finding bikes in this condition because I feel I have the freedom to do a like new restoration. Right now, I'm on the lookout for an early 50s Raleigh that's messed up enough or over painted for a total resto. It will also give me the excuse I've been waiting for to buy a pin stripping tool. That's another thing I'm itchin to learn how to do. I always use chemical strippers to remove the paint instead of bead blasting because I want to preserve the factory bonderizing on the steel. Whether this really valuable or not is open to debate, but it's my theory and I'm sticking to it. I can spend weeks doing the prep, painting, wet sanding and polishing. I enjoy doing the whole process myself even though it may be more practical to spend a couple hundred bucks having somebody blast and powder coat.

nlerner 11-13-18 08:51 AM


Originally Posted by DQRider (Post 20661019)
]How much heavier do you think it would be with a standard 36h AW steel shell?

I'm not quite sure and didn't weigh the alloy hub before building it into a wheel. But I don't think it's a great weight savings, certainly less than half a pound.

rhm 11-13-18 08:55 AM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 20661108)

Originally Posted by DQRider (Post 20661019)
...How much heavier do you think it would be with a standard 36h AW steel shell?

I'm not quite sure and didn't weigh the alloy hub before building it into a wheel. But I don't think it's a great weight savings, certainly less than half a pound.

I did a side by side comparison of two hubs a couple years ago, and the weight difference was right around a half pound.

noglider 11-13-18 09:17 AM

@nlerner, I think that Peugeot wins a prize. In some ways, it's even nicer than @DQRider's Super Course 3-speed. I bet it's lighter.

nlerner 11-13-18 09:27 AM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 20661165)
@nlerner, I think that Peugeot wins a prize. In some ways, it's even nicer than @DQRider's Super Course 3-speed. I bet it's lighter.

I didn't realize this was a competition. What did I win?

Salubrious 11-13-18 12:22 PM

I picked up a Lenton Marque III sans wheels recently. Its meant for 27" wheels and this worked well for me as I have a set of Wienmanns sitting around, one already set up with the FG hub. I'm looking for a Racelight for the front.

Trying to sort out the shifting though. I've get the right era shifters; the problem is that the Marque III came in two varieties- with hub gear, or with Benelux dérailleur. I've actually got the latter, but I don't want to use it; the FG is much preferred. But this leaves the braze-ons which I'd rather not see... and this is a rare frame. Any thoughts?

DQRider 11-13-18 12:45 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 20661165)
@nlerner , I think that Peugeot wins a prize. In some ways, it's even nicer than @DQRider 's Super Course 3-speed. I bet it's lighter.


And you would be right. Ready for the road, but w/o a water bottle, my Super Course 5-speed weighs 26.5 lbs. Put most of that down to the bamboo fenders and sprung Brooks Flyer saddle.



.

capnjonny 11-13-18 06:10 PM

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5a0615c2d7.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d93bfe306b.jpg

never seen one before. Don't think it is Schwinn
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...29f3743982.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...df3763c1aa.jpg

If there ever was a gas pipe frame this is it - lead pipe!
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1713637e8f.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f8da900297.jpg

Getting this apart could be "interesting"
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c1c3cab459.jpg
Anyone want to look at some scrap metal?

In prep for moving the silicon valley bicycle exchange to a new location we are going through 25 years of inventory trying to sort through what to take and what to throw away. We get all kinds of donations and some of them wind up gathering dust between our semi annual yard sales. Hanging up on the back wall with about 10 other frames was this old Schwinn New world. It has Varsity decals but is much older than that I think. maybe early 50's?

BigChief 11-13-18 06:53 PM

What a cool find. That could be as old as 1938. Schwinn was pretty good about serial numbers. Bet you could date it with those.

ascherer 11-13-18 07:42 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 20660741)
I posted this bike in another thread, but thought I'd put it here, too, as it is a 3-speed of sorts: I acquired a fairly beat Peugeot PX-10 frameset and in trying a variety of wheel sizes, discovered that EA3/590mm wheels would work with a set of Weinmann 750 center pull calipers. I had to build a front wheel to match the rear (solid-axle Normandy hub and Sun CR-18 rim), but otherwise used French and English bits that were in the bin:

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4851/...8ce09487_c.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4804/...83172374_c.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4828/...e113482d_c.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4809/...e585654e_c.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4840/...9891ee33_c.jpg

Total weight as shown is about 23.5 lbs, partially because the rear AW is in a 36-hole alloy shell. I've yet to ride it much and will commute on it later this week, but it felt stable and quick in my brief test rides.

Hoo wee baby! I have thought about doing just this with the PX-10E I have that is too small for me but there's no way I could part with it, but it would render my Sports redundant....but but but...my head is spinning.

SirMike1983 11-13-18 10:09 PM


Originally Posted by capnjonny (Post 20662035)
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5a0615c2d7.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d93bfe306b.jpg

never seen one before. Don't think it is Schwinn
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...29f3743982.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...df3763c1aa.jpg

If there ever was a gas pipe frame this is it - lead pipe!
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1713637e8f.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f8da900297.jpg

Getting this apart could be "interesting"
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c1c3cab459.jpg
Anyone want to look at some scrap metal?

In prep for moving the silicon valley bicycle exchange to a new location we are going through 25 years of inventory trying to sort through what to take and what to throw away. We get all kinds of donations and some of them wind up gathering dust between our semi annual yard sales. Hanging up on the back wall with about 10 other frames was this old Schwinn New world. It has Varsity decals but is much older than that I think. maybe early 50's?

That's a pre-WWII Schwinn New World frame that someone put Varsity decals on. The stem is a pre-war Wald. The tubing is Schwinn drawn seamless steel tubing - one of the better tubing choices at the time. Most of these frames are from 1939-41. The very earliest from 1938 had the rear-facing forks in back. They fairly quickly switched to forward-facing drops. These were one of the better bikes you could buy at the time - good frames that were fillet brazed of better alloy than the more common, welded frames on the balloon tire bikes. That one is a candidate for a custom build - would make a very unique (and old) frame choice for a custom.

thumpism 11-14-18 06:59 AM

This thing looks brand new, as nice as the blue ladies' Sports I bought for $24 back in the '90s for a neighbor. Somebody buy this bike!!!

https://richmond.craigslist.org/bik/...748076849.html

1973 Raleigh Sports 3-speed bicycle - $50 (Williamsburg, VA)


https://images.craigslist.org/00101_...RP_600x450.jpg
https://images.craigslist.org/01111_...kc_600x450.jpg
https://images.craigslist.org/00x0x_...ei_600x450.jpg

https://images.craigslist.org/00909_...IL_600x450.jpg
https://images.craigslist.org/00606_...U1_600x450.jpg
https://images.craigslist.org/00K0K_...6Q_600x450.jpg
https://images.craigslist.org/00707_...jf_600x450.jpg


bicycle type: road
brake type: caliper
condition: excellent
electric assist: none
frame size: 21 inches
handlebar type: cruiser
make / manufacturer: Raleigh
model name / number: Sports
suspension: none (rigid)
wheel size: 26 in
1973 DL-22 Raleigh Sports 3-speed bicycle. Made in England. 21-inch step-through frame. New tires and tubes in June '18. Everything works, so ready to roll for many more miles. $50, cash only.

noglider 11-14-18 08:17 AM

I guess I could mention my Viscount which is down to about 22 pounds now. It has flat bars (chopped MTB) and a fixed gear. But no fenders. Maybe I'll put a pair on. I've been meaning to replace the rear axle and start commuting on it. It's a fun knockaround bike.

It no longer has the dynamo and light.

And hey, it's English.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/45...=w1205-h901-no

BigChief 11-14-18 08:56 AM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 20661502)
I picked up a Lenton Marque III sans wheels recently. Its meant for 27" wheels and this worked well for me as I have a set of Wienmanns sitting around, one already set up with the FG hub. I'm looking for a Racelight for the front.

Trying to sort out the shifting though. I've get the right era shifters; the problem is that the Marque III came in two varieties- with hub gear, or with Benelux dérailleur. I've actually got the latter, but I don't want to use it; the FG is much preferred. But this leaves the braze-ons which I'd rather not see... and this is a rare frame. Any thoughts?

Just my opinion, but I would share your strong preference for the IG hub. If the frameset were over-painted or in very poor condition, I'd be very tempted to remove the braze-ons and refinish it. I'll admit, my desire to remove them would influence my assessment of the existing finish.*

nlerner 11-14-18 10:34 AM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 20662562)
I guess I could mention my Viscount which is down to about 22 pounds now. It has flat bars (chopped MTB) and a fixed gear. But no fenders. Maybe I'll put a pair on. I've been meaning to replace the rear axle and start commuting on it. It's a fun knockaround bike.

It no longer has the dynamo and light.

And hey, it's English.

And your three speeds are slow, slower, and slowest?

noglider 11-14-18 10:46 AM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 20662732)
And your three speeds are slow, slower, and slowest?

You're describing my legs.

Salubrious 11-14-18 10:58 AM


Originally Posted by capnjonny (Post 20662035)


never seen one before. Don't think it is Schwinn



If there ever was a gas pipe frame this is it - lead pipe!



Getting this apart could be "interesting"

Anyone want to look at some scrap metal?

In prep for moving the silicon valley bicycle exchange to a new location we are going through 25 years of inventory trying to sort through what to take and what to throw away. We get all kinds of donations and some of them wind up gathering dust between our semi annual yard sales. Hanging up on the back wall with about 10 other frames was this old Schwinn New world. It has Varsity decals but is much older than that I think. maybe early 50's?

This looks very pre-war to me. The coaster brake is a Morrow; very nice high end coaster brake hub! The crank set is pre-war; while Schwinn did make some skip-link bikes after the war, by that time they used a different crank. The fork is unusual and not the typical Ashtbula fork that was normally found on many post-war Schwinns, so I agree this is likely a pre-war bike, and one worth restoration as "lightweights" such as this are quite rare.


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