Help Identifying early -to- mid-80s Peugeot
Got this off 'The 'Bay' for a mere $90 plus shipping, which was quite reasonable. The seller didn't mention it being NOS, but looking through the pictures it seemed pretty obvious that it had never been built up. I doubt they ever sold any of the lowly, lugless Carbolite 103 frames as a frameset only so am still a little mystified as to its origins.
I also don't know what model it is. I looked through the available BF catalogs, also did the Google, and the nearest I can narrow down the year to is 1983. However, I didn't see any models with a similar paint scheme that had the internally routed brake cable ports and also a chrome fork. Then again, some of the online catalogs found here for Peugeot are a little blurry and small and so it's possible I missed this particular bike. Any ideas? Oh, and not sure why I didn't look there yet, but I can get a photo of the serial # if anyone thinks that would help to ID it. Anyways, on to the photos. The plasti-chrome chainstay protector is lifting a little bit: https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...97ce34b35a.jpg https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...eb3f410494.jpg Neat little detail toward top of downtube, seems to be purely decorative: https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e87c0c1b25.jpg Frameset came with what appears to be new, unused Simplex front derailleur, not sure of the model: https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9ed857d1fc.jpg No idea of manufacturer or model of headset, is unmarked: https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ef62dd8ede.jpg Looks like the typical cast dropouts, but with a nice raised area not usually seen on cast dropouts (I think): https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...586fd02dc9.jpg And a couple of close-ups of the cable ports: https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d4d8723576.jpg https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0058ad6041.jpg |
Maybe a PH9 from Canada in '83?
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Internally brazed, lugless construction, Carbolite 103 frame tubing and the stamped steel but windowed rear dropouts points towards something like a Peugeot PH10 or PH12....from maybe around 1983.....
It was at the top of their lower end model line. A pretty nice bike at that level with the cool fully chromed fork and very good hadling and ride from its then already well known Peugeot excellent frame geometry. |
Originally Posted by Chombi1
(Post 23147745)
Internally brazed, lugless construction, Carbolite 103 frame tubing and the stamped steel but windowed rear dropouts points towards something like a Peugeot PH10 or PH12....from maybe around 1983.....
It was at the top of their lower end model line. A pretty nice bike at that level with the cool fully chromed fork and very good hadling and ride from its then already well known Peugeot excellent frame geometry. Any theories on how it came to be just an unused frameset with a derailleur and headset attached? |
Originally Posted by Maxey
(Post 23147752)
Thanks, Chombi1, that all sounds plausible; I may have to revisit the Peugeot catalogs as I think I generally blew past anything that had a 10 or 12 in its model name. It didn't even occur to me that stamped steel dropouts don't usually have 'windows.' I knew it, but it took you pointing out the windows for me to remember that it's not usually the case.
Any theories on how it came to be just an unused frameset with a derailleur and headset attached? BTW, there might be slight differences on these bikes based on where they were sold. Some could be sold earlier in one country than another or have differences in graphics and finish colors and even model names..... so take a note of where the catalogs you are looking at for where they were issued.... |
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check bottom bracket thread there is the possibility of CH at this era and model level making no claim suggest to verify first prior to commencing build plans... frame not quite late enough that BSC would be a possibility looks an excellent buy in such like new condition ;) ----- ----- |
Originally Posted by juvela
(Post 23147795)
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check bottom bracket thread there is the possibility of CH at this era and model level making no claim suggest to verify first prior to commencing build plans... frame not quite late enough that BSC would be a possibility looks an excellent buy in such like new condition ;) ---- |
That certainly looks like an 84/85 PH11, although the Carbolite tubing sticker is confusing. I thought they only ever sported the Peugeot "BBT" tubing stickers.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...08daa51b8b.jpg https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e1db973e95.jpg https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...fe5a870045.jpg And some random catalog scans: https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c7498ccced.jpg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...65212f6f0c.jpg https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5d3380f8d4.jpg |
Originally Posted by juvela
(Post 23147795)
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check bottom bracket thread there is the possibility of CH at this era and model level making no claim suggest to verify first prior to commencing build plans... frame not quite late enough that BSC would be a possibility looks an excellent buy in such like new condition ;) ----- ----- |
Originally Posted by Chombi1
(Post 23147777)
Only reason I can think of is, If the removal of components happened when the bike was brand new,, they must have harvested the components to mount on to other bikes for owner's preferences or warranty fixes. Mass produced bikes were usually delivered as complete bikes with just minor assembly and mounting of components, all included in the box they came in. Maybe they never even fully assembled this bike to get the stuff from it.
BTW, there might be slight differences on these bikes based on where they were sold. Some could be sold earlier in one country than another or have differences in graphics and finish colors and even model names..... so take a note of where the catalogs you are looking at for where they were issued.... |
Originally Posted by MauriceMoss
(Post 23147966)
That certainly looks like an 84/85 PH11, although the Carbolite tubing sticker is confusing. I thought they only ever sported the Peugeot "BBT" tubing stickers.
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Originally Posted by Maxey
(Post 23148096)
Excuse my ignorance, Juvela, as I am still on the learning curve with these vintage bikes, but how exactly does one determine the bottom bracket thread? I've discovered I'm very good at gathering frames and parts, but unfortunately my project to convert half of my garage into bike shop duty is lagging behind (but slowly progressing) and so I'm still in the hunter/gatherer phase, but haven't quite reached the builder phase yet. :)
CH (Swiss) thread has the same pitch diameter and pitch as does Metric/French thread: 35.0mm X 1.0 the difference between it and Metric/French thread is that the fixed side of the shell is lefthand threaded so one turns the cup counter-clockwise to mount and clockwise to remove since you are new at cycle tinkering you may not have a CH fixed cup on hand to try you probably do have a BSC/English/ISO one somewhere BSC has a pitch diameter of 34.85mm so it can be started in a CH threaded shell but will bind up within a couple turns as the pitch is slightly different if you can start such a cup in the shell the shell is CH threaded ----- |
Originally Posted by juvela
(Post 23148133)
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CH (Swiss) thread has the same pitch diameter and pitch as does Metric/French thread: 35.0mm X 1.0 the difference between it and Metric/French thread is that the fixed side of the shell is lefthand threaded so one turns the cup counter-clockwise to mount and clockwise to remove since you are new at cycle tinkering you may not have a CH fixed cup on hand to try you probably do have a BSC/English/ISO one somewhere BSC has a pitch diameter of 34.85mm so it can be started in a CH threaded shell but will bind up within a couple turns as the pitch is slightly different if you can start such a cup in the shell the shell is CH threaded ----- |
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CH bottom bracket thread was only employed by two nations: FR & CH it can be found on machines going all the way back to the interwar period in CH itself it is only employed by some cycle manufacturers, others use Metric within FR it is most commonly associated with Motobecane and Manufrance products ----- |
Originally Posted by juvela
(Post 23148157)
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CH bottom bracket thread was only employed by two nations: FR & CH it can be found on machines going all the way back to the interwar period in CH itself it is only employed by some cycle manufacturers, others use Metric within FR it is most commonly associated with Motobecane and Manufrance products ----- And of course any frames from Switzerland. My own PX10 Super Competition from 1979 is the only Swiss-threaded frame I've had. I used a back-and-forth action of "work" to nicely force in a UN72 Shimano bottom bracket having English threads on Aluminum cups (a totally successful install, still in use after 12 years). My PH501 from 1984 is of the lugless type, having English threads or so I recall. |
Having CH BB threading on your bike isn't really a big deal.....yet.
There were enough BB manufacturers that provided BBs with such threading that finding one is still not that hard. Phil Wood made retaining cups for their BB' cartridges for CH threaded BB shells. It would be the best, high quality BB you can use for a resto replacement. I think Velo Orange also sold CH threaded BB sets. Some French made CH treaded BB sets or just the cups, sometimes pop up at eBay in NOS condition too. They are usually unmarked, but I suspect, they were made by Stronglight, originally for use as OEM components by bike manufacturers on their bikes. |
Originally Posted by Chombi1
(Post 23148687)
Having CH BB threading on your bike isn't really a big deal.....yet.
There were enough BB manufacturers that provided BBs with such threading that finding one is still not that hard. Phil Wood made retaining cups for their BB' cartridges for CH threaded BB shells. It would be the best, high quality BB you can use for a resto replacement. I think Velo Orange also sold CH threaded BB sets. Some French made CH treaded BB sets or just the cups, sometimes pop up at eBay in NOS condition too. They are usually unmarked, but I suspect, they were made by Stronglight, originally for use as OEM components by bike manufacturers on their bikes. |
Originally Posted by dddd
(Post 23148346)
I have heard of at least one instance of a Zeus frame having a Swiss-threaded bb shell, but I didn't see it with my own eyes.
And of course any frames from Switzerland. My own PX10 Super Competition from 1979 is the only Swiss-threaded frame I've had. I used a back-and-forth action of "work" to nicely force in a UN72 Shimano bottom bracket having English threads on Aluminum cups (a totally successful install, still in use after 12 years). My PH501 from 1984 is of the lugless type, having English threads or so I recall. |
Yours looks a later version of the PH10L from 1984 (I think).
Carbolite 103. Nice, relatively light for entry level racer. Nimble but bit whippy in larger size for 200lb rider. But my other road bike was a tourer, Centurion ProTour15. https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7cdd63a6b1.jpg |
Originally Posted by jdawginsc
(Post 23148810)
So you basically used the bottom bracket shell threads to re-thread the alloy cups?
I never bothered to remove the cups after to remove the metal swarf. I wouldn't have a problem with running an English tap in part way, then doing the same as above except using steel cups, which would give the same effect. Maybe just cut a few tapping notches in the cup threads to assist with re-forming the threads to the exact size as the cup, instead of with normal clearances, no tap required. Use of moly grease to prevent galling. JIS 115mm symmetric gave good chainline with the Stronglight 93 crankset, with clearance at the chainstay and with sufficient front derailer retraction for downshifts. |
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