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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

BigChief 09-17-16 02:00 PM

Wow, gorgeous! Sure that isn't a much earlier Superbe Dawn tourist? Like this:
http://www.kurtkaminer.com/1948raleighcat_us_14_lg.jpg

gster 09-17-16 03:38 PM


Originally Posted by hobbs1951 (Post 19062157)
Hi guys,

here is my very nice, original with just enough patination, 1966 Superbe. Purchased from the original owner complete with original dark green saddle and bag (tool still in the pocket) and Raleigh branded dark green pump and lovely large chrome bell.

It is a four speed, and as you can see, has the lighting set. On the front wheel is mounted an odometer (?) fitted from new; unusually I have the original key for the fork lock!

Hope you like it.

John.

I like it!

1989Pre 09-17-16 04:35 PM

That's a really great bicycle, hob. I'm not sure why, but I'm a little surprised to see the parallel geometry with the upright bars. Nice. Are the mudguards nice and straight?

BigChief 09-17-16 04:53 PM

I'm checking in to see if that really is a 66. If the Brits were still getting Dawn Tourists in the 60s, I'll be all kinds of jealous.

clubman 09-17-16 05:42 PM

Perfect Raleigh. Top shelf, where they keep the peanut butter.
...maybe a leather Brooks is required.

hobbs1951 09-18-16 12:51 AM


Originally Posted by 1989Pre (Post 19062857)
That's a really great bicycle, hob. I'm not sure why, but I'm a little surprised to see the parallel geometry with the upright bars. Nice. Are the mudguards nice and straight?

Thank you!

Mudguards are in excellent shape, the whole bicycle defies it's half century - where there is paint rub (i.e paint missing) there's no pitting in the sheet metal, plus all the decals are there and the original grips.

Been thinking of selling as I ride it rarely...but...it is so irreplaceable.

John.

P.S it really is a '66 - World Cup winning year...

Delboy Avenger 09-18-16 03:24 AM

raleigh fork lock
 
I've been doing some research on fork locks and thought I'd share it.
I wanted to find out how to remove one.
These are the components.
http://oldroads.com/mn0.jpg

I forcibly removed one by drilling one out (I know, but it was an old rusty frame).

To remove one. (Not totally proven but it should work)

1. Take out the thimble on the opposite side of the lock.

2. Remove screw X90 by using a thin screwdriver through the small hole
accessible once the thimble is removed.
Turn fork upside down to see it.

3. Push the lock out as far as it will go by using a pin punch through the hole
or prizing the lock from the front. Should go out about 1/10 inch?
This should release the bolt S740 from the cyclinder lock M376 .
There is a slot on the top side of the body M368.

4. Remove the bolt S740 . This is the tricky bit as most bolts that have not been moved for a while
may be seized so apply some release oil. Still tricky as you can't get any leverage on the bolt.
Maybe drill a small hole in the top and screw in a self tapper.?
Turn the fork upside down and tap until the bolt shows a little?
I removed mine by levering underneath once I drilled out the middle of the lock.
It was stiff to remove, even then.
You can't take out the lock until the bolt is removed.

5. The lock will then push out. Again use a pin punch or prize from the front.

6. Remove the brass detent S742 and if you are lucky the cylinder lock M367 will seperate from the
body M368.


Fitting is the reverse of above.

I have read a few threads on the above but not in any detail.
Pic from oldroads.com

Any other method/experience known would be nice to share.

BigChief 09-18-16 03:40 AM

First I find that Canadians had a choice of different colored Superbes. Now, I learn the the English were making lovely, forest green Dawn style Superbes all the way into the 60s and keeping them all to themselves. It's a conspiracy!. Wonderful bike...wish we had some over here.

BigChief 09-18-16 04:06 AM


Originally Posted by Delboy Avenger (Post 19063632)
I've been doing some research on fork locks and thought I'd share it.
I wanted to find out how to remove one.
These are the components.
http://oldroads.com/mn0.jpg

I forcibly removed one by drilling one out (I know, but it was an old rusty frame).

To remove one. (Not totally proven but it should work)

1. Take out the thimble on the opposite side of the lock.

2. Remove screw X90 by using a thin screwdriver through the small hole
accessible once the thimble is removed.
Turn fork upside down to see it.

3. Push the lock out as far as it will go by using a pin punch through the hole
or prizing the lock from the front. Should go out about 1/10 inch?
This should release the bolt S740 from the cyclinder lock M376 .
There is a slot on the top side of the body M368.

4. Remove the bolt S740 . This is the tricky bit as most bolts that have not been moved for a while
may be seized so apply some release oil. Still tricky as you can't get any leverage on the bolt.
Maybe drill a small hole in the top and screw in a self tapper.?
Turn the fork upside down and tap until the bolt shows a little?
I removed mine by levering underneath once I drilled out the middle of the lock.
It was stiff to remove, even then.
You can't take out the lock until the bolt is removed.

5. The lock will then push out. Again use a pin punch or prize from the front.

6. Remove the brass detent S742 and if you are lucky the cylinder lock M367 will seperate from the
body M368.


Fitting is the reverse of above.

I have read a few threads on the above but not in any detail.
Pic from oldroads.com

Any other method/experience known would be nice to share.

Years ago, my Father, an old time toolmaker, made a key for an old wooden tool box that was missing it's key. We took it to the hardware store and tried key blanks till we found one that fit. Then he inked the blank and turned it side to side in the lock so the tumblers would leave marks. Then he chucked the key in the vise and shaped it with a small file. It didn't take long. Within a half hour we had a working key.

gster 09-18-16 07:15 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19062110)
That's interesting. Somebody mounted the cog concave side up. I've never had to move a cog that far out to get a good chain line. Might be a good idea to give the frame the string test to make sure the chain stays are straight.

That's how it came off the bike so I've re assembled the same. I'll see how it lines up.
With a bike this old it's hard to say what's been done to it over the years. The BB had been re-packed recently and set up too tight. The hub seems a little tight as well. Also has a newer chain (master link).

Delboy Avenger 09-18-16 10:33 AM

Thanks for the reply Big Chief
It was an option I had considered (lock smith).
Maybe I can find a less destructive way next time :)

SirMike1983 09-18-16 07:10 PM

1974 Raleigh Sports with an LED headlight and Col de la Vie tires

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-cZA0Uq_Vc...918_165231.jpg
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-baSDL9ImW...918_165215.jpg

noglider 09-19-16 09:09 AM

A friend of mine has been commuting on an old run-down MTB that is too small for him. He mentioned it "broke" and he's without a bike now. I told him I could fix it for him without asking him what "broke" means. He said it's not worth it, because it was always too small for him, and I realize that he's right. Whether the bike is worth fixing or not, it's not worth fixing for him.

Someone left an English 3-speed in the basement of my apartment building long ago. I asked, and no one claims to own it, so I took it and fixed it up. It had been decades since anyone had so much as rolled it along the floor, so it was really stiff. I aired up the tires and applied oil everywhere, and it's good again. There is some rust, but this will be a beater bike, so it's not worth fixing up. There was a lot of dust and grime on it, but it washed off easily.

I can't tell what year bike it is. The rear wheel has been replaced with a wheel that has a SunTour 3-speed hub. I know this hub. It's an exact copy of the Sturmey Archer AW hub, but it has no date code or oil port. I took the indicator chain out and dropped oil in there.

The bike has also had its left crank replaced and its brake pads and obviously the saddle. The seat post moves, and I raised it an inch for myself. It will go higher for my friend who is taller than I am. I couldn't find a proper hammer, so I wasn't able to give the stem expander bolt a proper blow. I wasn't able to free the wedge in the stem and move the stem, but it might not be stuck once it is met with a hammer. The bolt does turn in the stem. I'm leaving it as is for now.

The tires have no dry rot!

I took it for a 2.6-mile ride around the neighborhood. I want to get rid of the rattle from the little ornament on the front of the front fender. Plus there is a click each time the master link comes around the rear cog, so there may be some alignment problem. Maybe the master link is banging on the chainguard.

Ideally, I will overhaul the BB, front hub, and headset. But I'm not sure I will. The front hub is very rough and may not last much longer, but then again, betting against the Raleigh's longevity isn't necessarily a good idea.

Can anyone guess what year this is?

Please remind me: which side does the adjustable cone of the front hub go on?

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/wr...w1804-h1352-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/I1...w1804-h1352-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/mo...w1804-h1352-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/k7...w1804-h1352-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ii...w1804-h1352-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Bd...w1804-h1352-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Y0...w1014-h1352-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/p-...w1804-h1352-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/VZ...w1804-h1352-no

ascherer 09-19-16 09:30 AM

Fixed cone on right, adjustable on left. The Headbadge places it as 1969 - 1972. Nice find, 23" frame, the older chainwheel pattern and matching rack. You have a lucky friend!

dweenk 09-19-16 09:40 AM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 19066268)
A friend of mine has been commuting on an old run-down MTB that is too small for him. He mentioned it "broke" and he's without a bike now. I told him I could fix it for him without asking him what "broke" means. He said it's not worth it, because it was always too small for him, and I realize that he's right. Whether the bike is worth fixing or not, it's not worth fixing for him.

Someone left an English 3-speed in the basement of my apartment building long ago. I asked, and no one claims to own it, so I took it and fixed it up. It had been decades since anyone had so much as rolled it along the floor, so it was really stiff. I aired up the tires and applied oil everywhere, and it's good again. There is some rust, but this will be a beater bike, so it's not worth fixing up. There was a lot of dust and grime on it, but it washed off easily.

I can't tell what year bike it is. The rear wheel has been replaced with a wheel that has a SunTour 3-speed hub. I know this hub. It's an exact copy of the Sturmey Archer AW hub, but it has no date code or oil port. I took the indicator chain out and dropped oil in there.

The bike has also had its left crank replaced and its brake pads and obviously the saddle. The seat post moves, and I raised it an inch for myself. It will go higher for my friend who is taller than I am. I couldn't find a proper hammer, so I wasn't able to give the stem expander bolt a proper blow. I wasn't able to free the wedge in the stem and move the stem, but it might not be stuck once it is met with a hammer. The bolt does turn in the stem. I'm leaving it as is for now.

The tires have no dry rot!

I took it for a 2.6-mile ride around the neighborhood. I want to get rid of the rattle from the little ornament on the front of the front fender. Plus there is a click each time the master link comes around the rear cog, so there may be some alignment problem. Maybe the master link is banging on the chainguard.

Ideally, I will overhaul the BB, front hub, and headset. But I'm not sure I will. The front hub is very rough and may not last much longer, but then again, betting against the Raleigh's longevity isn't necessarily a good idea.

Can anyone guess what year this is?

Please remind me: which side does the adjustable cone of the front hub go on?

Tom, the decals indicate a build between 1969 - 1972. A photo of the shifter face may be able to tell more.

noglider 09-19-16 09:56 AM


Originally Posted by dweenk (Post 19066368)
Tom, the decals indicate a build between 1969 - 1972. A photo of the shifter face may be able to tell more.

OK, thanks. That makes sense. I'll get a picture of the shifter.

Salubrious 09-19-16 12:42 PM

@noglider, the gold foil rings on the downtube put it in the 1970s. The chainring limits it to no later than 1972- later in '72 they went to the simpler chainring.

It would be good idea to replace the pulley and fulcrum sleeve with metal parts. You can get them from John the Gentleman Cyclist.

BigChief 09-19-16 02:52 PM

I'm going to toss in a bit of Raleigh trivia here. The chainwheel V brackets didn't disappear until later in 1973. My DL-1 with a hub shell date of August 73 still has the brackets. However, sometime in 1972 the herons lost their eyes.
So there's a transitional design from 72-73 with brackets and eyeless herons. You know things were going astray in Nottingham when some bean counter decided the poor herons no longer needed their eyes! These still have their eyes, so I'm going to call this Sports pre 72.

scale 09-19-16 05:58 PM

loose bottom headset cup on my "new to me" Superbe
 
I picked up a 69 Superbe this past weekend. Its only missing the rear rack. It needs a few things but it is cleaning up really nice.

I noticed that the headset was bit loose but that was fine since i was going to overhaul it anyway. I pulled it apart despite getting bearings all over the place (I didnt learn my lesson well enough from the last one i redid) I found that the bottom cup fell out when i pulled the fork out. Is this common due to the machining of the time? I guess im really looking for a way to remedy it. Im thinking a thin layer of clear nail polish or epoxy around the cup until it is a nice tight fit to press it in.

gster 09-19-16 06:15 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 19066268)
A friend of mine has been commuting on an old run-down MTB that is too small for him. He mentioned it "broke" and he's without a bike now. I told him I could fix it for him without asking him what "broke" means. He said it's not worth it, because it was always too small for him, and I realize that he's right. Whether the bike is worth fixing or not, it's not worth fixing for him.

Someone left an English 3-speed in the basement of my apartment building long ago. I asked, and no one claims to own it, so I took it and fixed it up. It had been decades since anyone had so much as rolled it along the floor, so it was really stiff. I aired up the tires and applied oil everywhere, and it's good again. There is some rust, but this will be a beater bike, so it's not worth fixing up. There was a lot of dust and grime on it, but it washed off easily.

I can't tell what year bike it is. The rear wheel has been replaced with a wheel that has a SunTour 3-speed hub. I know this hub. It's an exact copy of the Sturmey Archer AW hub, but it has no date code or oil port. I took the indicator chain out and dropped oil in there.

The bike has also had its left crank replaced and its brake pads and obviously the saddle. The seat post moves, and I raised it an inch for myself. It will go higher for my friend who is taller than I am. I couldn't find a proper hammer, so I wasn't able to give the stem expander bolt a proper blow. I wasn't able to free the wedge in the stem and move the stem, but it might not be stuck once it is met with a hammer. The bolt does turn in the stem. I'm leaving it as is for now.

The tires have no dry rot!

I took it for a 2.6-mile ride around the neighborhood. I want to get rid of the rattle from the little ornament on the front of the front fender. Plus there is a click each time the master link comes around the rear cog, so there may be some alignment problem. Maybe the master link is banging on the chainguard.

Ideally, I will overhaul the BB, front hub, and headset. But I'm not sure I will. The front hub is very rough and may not last much longer, but then again, betting against the Raleigh's longevity isn't necessarily a good idea.

Can anyone guess what year this is?

Please remind me: which side does the adjustable cone of the front hub go on?

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/wr...w1804-h1352-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/I1...w1804-h1352-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/mo...w1804-h1352-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/k7...w1804-h1352-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ii...w1804-h1352-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Bd...w1804-h1352-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Y0...w1014-h1352-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/p-...w1804-h1352-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/VZ...w1804-h1352-no

Your friend is very lucky.

BigChief 09-19-16 07:20 PM


Originally Posted by scale (Post 19067642)
I picked up a 69 Superbe this past weekend. Its only missing the rear rack. It needs a few things but it is cleaning up really nice.

I noticed that the headset was bit loose but that was fine since i was going to overhaul it anyway. I pulled it apart despite getting bearings all over the place (I didnt learn my lesson well enough from the last one i redid) I found that the bottom cup fell out when i pulled the fork out. Is this common due to the machining of the time? I guess im really looking for a way to remedy it. Im thinking a thin layer of clear nail polish or epoxy around the cup until it is a nice tight fit to press it in.

I would put a thin coat of paint on the cup and press it in while the paint was still tacky. There's very little torque on those cups. It wouldn't take much to hold them in place.I wonder if the cup is undersized or if the steering tube is oversized. If the top cup is a good fit on the bottom of the steering tube, the more correct fix would to be to replace both cups.

PatrickZ 09-19-16 07:57 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19067254)
I'm going to toss in a bit of Raleigh trivia here. The chainwheel V brackets didn't disappear until later in 1973. My DL-1 with a hub shell date of August 73 still has the brackets. However, sometime in 1972 the herons lost their eyes.
So there's a transitional design from 72-73 with brackets and eyeless herons. You know things were going astray in Nottingham when some bean counter decided the poor herons no longer needed their eyes! These still have their eyes, so I'm going to call this Sports pre 72.

I believe they also changed to 46T chainwheels in 73, which may explain the lack of brackets/supports. My 48T chainwheels have the brackets, the 46T chainwheels do not.

scale 09-19-16 07:58 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19067808)
I would put a thin coat of paint on the cup and press it in while the paint was still tacky. There's very little torque on those cups. It wouldn't take much to hold them in place.I wonder if the cup is undersized or if the steering tube is oversized. If the top cup is a good fit on the bottom of the steering tube, the more correct fix would to be to replace both cups.


I havent pulled the top cup to try that. I might have an extra cup around here somewhere. Ill give that a shot. It sits in there and doesnt move around....its just not tight. The race looks good and i would think if the headset was ridden loose the bearings and cup would show it. They dont. THat could be mean someone replaced it with an incorrect size at some point i suppose. Ill give it a shot. Thanks

Salubrious 09-20-16 10:48 AM


Originally Posted by scale (Post 19067869)
I havent pulled the top cup to try that. I might have an extra cup around here somewhere. Ill give that a shot. It sits in there and doesnt move around....its just not tight. The race looks good and i would think if the headset was ridden loose the bearings and cup would show it. They dont. THat could be mean someone replaced it with an incorrect size at some point i suppose. Ill give it a shot. Thanks

The fact that the cup is slightly loose in the headset tube is of no bearing at all if you will pardon the expression. Your bearings look good because that was not a problem.

BigChief 09-20-16 01:05 PM

Back to chainwheel trivia. 1969 chainwheel...48T V brackets and eyes for the herons. 1972...46T V brackets and no eyes. 1973...same as 72. So from this I gather that the change to 46T and eyeless herons happened sometime between 1969 and 1972 and the V brackets were removed sometime during the 1973 model year.


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