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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

King Romulus 07-27-18 07:33 AM


Originally Posted by rhm (Post 10453598)
The new Sturmey Archer 5 speed wide range hub has the same ratios as the AW plus a super low and a super high. The gearing is:
1 ----0.62
2-----0.75
3-----1.00
4-----1.33
5-----1.60

I've ridden this about seven miles so far, so I'm not going to present myself as an exert yet! But my initial reaction is that the gears are too far apart. That is, I really miss the close ratios of my Sturmey Archer 8 speed hubs. I'm sure I'll get used to it, though. Photos to follow!

thanks for sharing,

Cute Boy Horse 07-27-18 08:45 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20472312)
I always thought that if both bulbs share poles on the switch it would be considered series from the switch onward and that parallel would be two separate wires through the whole system. Perhaps I'm wrong. I have a learning curve to go through here.

This diagram should help. On the left is a battery. S1 is the switch. LS1 and LS2 are light bulbs.

Series is when things go one thing after the other. Parallel is when they are side by side. The switch does not count because a switch isn't a load, it doesn't consume electricity. A switch is just a wire that you can disconnect easily.

https://s22.postimg.cc/x37cbr4kx/whoopwhopp.png

When two bulbs are in series, in this case 6V bulbs, they have to share the voltage between them. So they get 3V each.

When two bulbs are in parallel, they both get 6V. The power supply just sees one 6V load, that's drawing twice as many amperes.

arty dave 07-27-18 06:48 PM


Originally Posted by Stadjer (Post 20472307)
To be honest, now I got the new brake and I'm working on it, I start to doubt the interchangeability. I didn't really tighten the nut yet, just by hand, but there's about a 2 mm gap and it's not turning smoothly. It also seem to wobble slightly when turning. The bike is a Gazelle and Gazelle has a habit of doing things a little bit differently often for the sake of beeing different and beeing able to charge more for parts, even in using SA parts. The company has never been as likeable as the bikes.

I guess I'll have to connect the brakeshoes to the old plate, or do you (or somebody else) have a better idea?

Ah sorry, I didn't know that Gazelle did their own proprietary parts mixed in with the SA hubs.
If you post some photos we might be able to offer some better advice, but I think you'll be fine to swap around whatever parts you need to get it to work. They're a very simple hub. Maybe tighten it up into place and see if that helps? There is what feels like quite a bit of play and wobbling until the nut is snugged down, so it might be OK. Let us know how you go with it.

BigChief 07-27-18 06:56 PM


Originally Posted by Cute Boy Horse (Post 20472568)
This diagram should help. On the left is a battery. S1 is the switch. LS1 and LS2 are light bulbs.

Series is when things go one thing after the other. Parallel is when they are side by side. The switch does not count because a switch isn't a load, it doesn't consume electricity. A switch is just a wire that you can disconnect easily.

https://s22.postimg.cc/x37cbr4kx/whoopwhopp.png

When two bulbs are in series, in this case 6V bulbs, they have to share the voltage between them. So they get 3V each.

When two bulbs are in parallel, they both get 6V. The power supply just sees one 6V load, that's drawing twice as many amperes.

Thanks for explaining that. I've had to repair wiring before on motorcycles, but it was always one wire and components that were grounded to the frame. The dual wires were confusing me.

Cute Boy Horse 07-27-18 07:13 PM

I just remembered your new Fibrax rod brake pads. Where did you get them? I can only find straight ones, which is a pain because if you don't shave them they tend to rotate and wear unevenly.

I tell you what's soddin awful is those westwood pattern blocks they make in india. I think I've had three where the threads on the bolt stripped, throwing the block into the spokes which then violently rip it apart. Makes a hell of a din.

BigChief 07-27-18 07:24 PM

Speaking of grounding to a frame, the connection from the brass bulb holder to the hub does depend on the steel headlight shell and I have a dodgy connection there. The wires all measure good through the switch, but I loose about half the voltage between the terminal where the hub wire bolts on to the shell and the brass bulb holder. I think I'll temporally tape a wire onto the holder and run it directly to the grounding bolt and see if that gets the 6v .5amp bulb looking any brighter. Yeah, I know, another shot in the dark, but one of these days those lights are going to work the way they are suppose to. I just need to put more time into compiling methods of how not to fix dynohub lights.

BigChief 07-27-18 07:29 PM


Originally Posted by Cute Boy Horse (Post 20473665)
I just remembered your new Fibrax rod brake pads. Where did you get them? I can only find straight ones, which is a pain because if you don't shave them they tend to rotate and wear unevenly.

I tell you what's soddin awful is those westwood pattern blocks they make in india. I think I've had three where the threads on the bolt stripped, throwing the block into the spokes which then violently rip it apart. Makes a hell of a din.

No, these new Fibrax pads I bought were for my Rudge Sports caliper brakes. The funky straight ones I bought a while back for my DL-1 are in a jar on my workbench. They were terrible. The salmon kool stop inserts press right into the curved Raleigh pad holders and follow the curve. A far, far better way to go if you have the original pad holders.

52telecaster 07-27-18 08:00 PM


Originally Posted by DQRider (Post 20471737)
It was a beautiful day down by the Saint Paul waterfront.

https://i.imgur.com/dm2TgPN.png

I rode my Super Course Sturmey-Archer conversion about 40 miles through the parks along the river. This bike draws a lot of attention whenever I stop to photograph it. Kind of like dating a super-model. :p

.

beautiful!

Stadjer 07-28-18 07:13 AM


Originally Posted by arty dave (Post 20473630)
Ah sorry, I didn't know that Gazelle did their own proprietary parts mixed in with the SA hubs.
If you post some photos we might be able to offer some better advice, but I think you'll be fine to swap around whatever parts you need to get it to work. They're a very simple hub. Maybe tighten it up into place and see if that helps? There is what feels like quite a bit of play and wobbling until the nut is snugged down, so it might be OK. Let us know how you go with it.

I did know that so I'm the one that should apologize. But I don't believe this is unique for the Gazelle versions, I believe SA has made those brake plate/ drum covers that sit inside the hub, and ones that go over the hub. The ones to go over the hub have a curved edge, and those hubs have a little ridge that fits inside.

For now I'll illustrate it with internet pictures, both from Gazelles:

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7d8e8fa04a.jpg


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...08e84402d4.jpg

So one brake plate is a kind of cup that sits on top and the other is flat and is recessed inside. I fear that for the brake plate to it's job protecting the brakes from the weather, I need the hub and the brake plate to match. My hub is designed for the recessed brake plate, and has no ridge to fit inside the curve of the cup brake plate. I didn't see any brakes with recessed brake plate on sale anywhere.

So'll probably have to invent and make a tool to hold the nut in place too, so I can undo the brake from the brake plate and screw it onto the old plate.

BigChief 07-28-18 07:16 AM

Just to report that if you should ever need to replace the Dynohub lamp wire that comes from the center contact on the bulb holder, it's not a problem. I was half expecting some poor design that would fall apart if I tried soldering it. But no, it's just a hollow rivet that holds the center contact on the masonite. No problem to bend back the tabs, remove the masonite and solder on a new wire. I also had a poor connection from the bulb holder through the headlight shell to the pole on the switch. I bypassed this by running a wire from the fork that clips onto the bulb holder directly to the pole on the switch. Now I have good continuity through the whole system and am ready to send away for some LED bulbs.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...02e23ce8e5.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d8d18ab036.jpg

Johno59 07-28-18 07:49 AM

Old school wiring
 
The older Lucas lamps did exactly that. They had a wire directly soldered to the threaded bulb mount socket , rather than relying on continuity thru the lamp's ancillary componentry.

Lawrence_S 07-28-18 08:07 AM

Older Downtube-Shift DL-1L on Charleston SC Craigslist
 
https://charleston.craigslist.org/bi...655230203.html

Raleigh 3-Speeds seem to be coming out of the woodwork in Charleston. Here's an intact step-through downtube shift DL-1 with a massive front headlamp I'm not familiar with powered by a front Dynohub. Military/police model? I'm slowly learning about these wee beasties.

Too rich for my blood and probably should be owned by someone who knows what they have and what to do with it.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...62055c2ce8.jpg

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1ef4a90fe8.jpg

Cute Boy Horse 07-28-18 08:14 AM

Police model would have an X-frame (until they stopped doing those), never a "girls" bike. That headlight looks crazy.


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20473693)
No, these new Fibrax pads I bought were for my Rudge Sports caliper brakes. The funky straight ones I bought a while back for my DL-1 are in a jar on my workbench. They were terrible. The salmon kool stop inserts press right into the curved Raleigh pad holders and follow the curve. A far, far better way to go if you have the original pad holders.

I've never, ever seen curved rod brake block holders, on any age of bike or in any condition. I thought you'd found something aftermarket. Pity.

RobbieTunes 07-28-18 08:42 AM

OK, a few questions.....
 
I am a complete newb when it comes to an old 3-speed, but I've picked up a 1959 Raleigh Sports, and I've decided to give maybe 100 hours to it.

It's burgundy with white trim on the fenders, has a dyno front hub and a headlight and tail light. Grips, pedals, chain, wiring, etc are all original. I'm sure the tires/tubes are not.

My plan is a painstaking tear-down, clean, and reassemble without touchup or replacement of items...UNLESS

1-Will it hurt the bike's "cache" if I run new wires? The older ones, to be frank, look a little brittle. It's preferable to use the dyno (since it's working) but the original off-white wiring (maybe it was white) looks like, well, 59 years old. On the same topic, I'd like to try a regulator and LED bulb replacement. Bad or not?

2-I"m a bit worried about the grips. They're old, and worn shiny and hard. A proper treatment of the handlebars, etc would be to remove them, but surely this may cause damage. How "bad" is it to replace them? I'm a Schwinn "root beer" grip fan, and would love to use some of those.

3-Galvanized spokes are in good shape, but the bike will clean up pretty well, and stainless would look so good. Is this a bad thing?

4-The original B66 is on it. Pretty stiff, and a couple tears near the front bolt. No doubt I can Proof it and make it more flexible, but worries about it's ability to be oiled and then ridden remain. Of course, I can get a new B66 but this is a '59 and I'd prefer an rhm re-cover if anything, but would prefer not to have to go that route if possible. Thoughts?

I know there are purists here, and I rarely go that route. On this bike, though, I'd kind of like to stay more "true" than all-day functional. My plan is to restore it, get some tweed, and go have a fun day somewhere, somehow.

nlerner 07-28-18 09:03 AM

Rob, those all sound like reasonable fixes to me in order to get the bike on the road--well, except for those Schwinn grips: sacrilege!

SirMike1983 07-28-18 09:30 AM


Originally Posted by RobbieTunes (Post 20474295)
I am a complete newb when it comes to an old 3-speed, but I've picked up a 1959 Raleigh Sports, and I've decided to give maybe 100 hours to it.

It's burgundy with white trim on the fenders, has a dyno front hub and a headlight and tail light. Grips, pedals, chain, wiring, etc are all original. I'm sure the tires/tubes are not.

My plan is a painstaking tear-down, clean, and reassemble without touchup or replacement of items...UNLESS

1-Will it hurt the bike's "cache" if I run new wires? The older ones, to be frank, look a little brittle. It's preferable to use the dyno (since it's working) but the original off-white wiring (maybe it was white) looks like, well, 59 years old. On the same topic, I'd like to try a regulator and LED bulb replacement. Bad or not?

2-I"m a bit worried about the grips. They're old, and worn shiny and hard. A proper treatment of the handlebars, etc would be to remove them, but surely this may cause damage. How "bad" is it to replace them? I'm a Schwinn "root beer" grip fan, and would love to use some of those.

3-Galvanized spokes are in good shape, but the bike will clean up pretty well, and stainless would look so good. Is this a bad thing?

4-The original B66 is on it. Pretty stiff, and a couple tears near the front bolt. No doubt I can Proof it and make it more flexible, but worries about it's ability to be oiled and then ridden remain. Of course, I can get a new B66 but this is a '59 and I'd prefer an rhm re-cover if anything, but would prefer not to have to go that route if possible. Thoughts?

I know there are purists here, and I rarely go that route. On this bike, though, I'd kind of like to stay more "true" than all-day functional. My plan is to restore it, get some tweed, and go have a fun day somewhere, somehow.

Any decent condition Raleigh made before the early 1960s is a higher cachet Raleigh because it pre-dates the Tube Investments consolidation and will exhibit the older construction methods before production economies cheapened the bikes over the course of the 1960s. The Early 1960s bikes are "transitional" in the sense they exhibit some older methods and some newer. The more "common" bikes are mid-1960s and later.

Original wiring should be left in place unless it's broken/not working. If you choose to remove it, save it somewhere as an original part. Swapping to LED won't hurt anything and will make the bike safer in darker conditions. Save the old bulb. Adding a regulator is fine as long as your work is reversible to original condition - avoid permanent modifications.

Original grips should be left in place unless broken or totally worn out/useless. Removing original grips is a gamble because some of them will not come off intact (they break up or split at the mouth usually). If the grips are already loose and easy to remove, then go with whatever grips you want but save the originals. If the originals are locked in place, I suggest leaving them unless they're totally cooked.

If the original galvanized spokes are in good shape, leave them in place. If they're unsafe and rusted-out, then there's no choice but to remove them. But if they're alright, leave the wheels original and build a separate, second set of wheels and use the second set. Set the originals aside in a safe place if you do that.

If the original B66 is torn at the nose rivets, then replace with a new B66 as a rider saddle. Save the original.

This is how I would do it at least.

BigChief 07-28-18 09:56 AM


Originally Posted by Cute Boy Horse (Post 20474267)
Police model would have an X-frame (until they stopped doing those), never a "girls" bike. That headlight looks crazy.



I've never, ever seen curved rod brake block holders, on any age of bike or in any condition. I thought you'd found something aftermarket. Pity.

I was surprised to see the straight Fibrax pads when they came. I thought they would be curved like the originals. I figured that you were expected to let them wear into a curve in time. I diddn't try to shape them. I mounted them on the bike and found them to be wildly inefficient. I was wrong about the holders. The original holders are straight. It's the Kool Stop pads that have a curved top surface.

Johno59 07-28-18 10:22 AM


Originally Posted by RobbieTunes (Post 20474295)
I am a complete newb when it comes to an old 3-speed, but I've picked up a 1959 Raleigh Sports, and I've decided to give maybe 100 hours to it.

It's burgundy with white trim on the fenders, has a dyno front hub and a headlight and tail light. Grips, pedals, chain, wiring, etc are all original. I'm sure the tires/tubes are not.

My plan is a painstaking tear-down, clean, and reassemble without touchup or replacement of items...UNLESS

1-Will it hurt the bike's "cache" if I run new wires? The older ones, to be frank, look a little brittle. It's preferable to use the dyno (since it's working) but the original off-white wiring (maybe it was white) looks like, well, 59 years old. On the same topic, I'd like to try a regulator and LED bulb replacement. Bad or not?

2-I"m a bit worried about the grips. They're old, and worn shiny and hard. A proper treatment of the handlebars, etc would be to remove them, but surely this may cause damage. How "bad" is it to replace them? I'm a Schwinn "root beer" grip fan, and would love to use some of those.

3-Galvanized spokes are in good shape, but the bike will clean up pretty well, and stainless would look so good. Is this a bad thing?

4-The original B66 is on it. Pretty stiff, and a couple tears near the front bolt. No doubt I can Proof it and make it more flexible, but worries about it's ability to be oiled and then ridden remain. Of course, I can get a new B66 but this is a '59 and I'd prefer an rhm re-cover if anything, but would prefer not to have to go that route if possible. Thoughts?

I know there are purists here, and I rarely go that route. On this bike, though, I'd kind of like to stay more "true" than all-day functional. My plan is to restore it, get some tweed, and go have a fun day somewhere, somehow.

Stainless steel rims and spokes were an option for Raleigh Sports long before 1959. You can buy original Raleigh /Dunlop SS rims 20 years older. Wiring is wiring, it wasn't meant to last 50 years and is unlikely to be original. The loom was made by Lucas and they were always appalling.
The Brooks seat has nothing to do with Raleigh - it's just as likely to have a Wrights on it.

Brooks refuse to provide new leather for their seats at any price, so get a new one or refurb- but the rails and springs do break and Brooks still sell those bits - just not the most perishable part - the leather. Go figure.
IMHO it's a bomb-proof bicycle that was meant to be ridden hard in all weather's over any terrain, not
some exotic trinket meant for strutting around like a peacock.
Git Som!

Lawrence_S 07-28-18 10:34 AM


Originally Posted by Cute Boy Horse (Post 20474267)
Police model would have an X-frame (until they stopped doing those), never a "girls" bike. That headlight looks crazy...

Thanks CBH. The headlamp is Raleigh branded. It's a monster, isn't it? ;)

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...81db7f6398.jpg

Cute Boy Horse 07-28-18 10:50 AM

Now you've got me curious, which Dynohub is that? Might be one of the earlier 12 volts?

clubman 07-28-18 11:44 AM


Originally Posted by RobbieTunes (Post 20474295)
I've decided to give maybe 100 hours to it.

...Of course, I can get a new B66 but this is a '59 and I'd prefer an rhm re-cover if anything, but would prefer not to have to go that route if possible. Thoughts?

Interesting way to look at a bike restoration by allocating hours to it. I should try that.

Unless the B66 is horrible looking, try to just ride it. The comfort is mostly built into the springs so softening the leather will just reduce it's longevity.

Before pics? :)

browngw 07-28-18 05:48 PM


Originally Posted by RobbieTunes (Post 20474295)
I am a complete newb when it comes to an old 3-speed, but I've picked up a 1959 Raleigh Sports, and I've decided to give maybe 100 hours to it.

It's burgundy with white trim on the fenders, has a dyno front hub and a headlight and tail light. Grips, pedals, chain, wiring, etc are all original. I'm sure the tires/tubes are not.

My plan is a painstaking tear-down, clean, and reassemble without touchup or replacement of items...UNLESS

1-Will it hurt the bike's "cache" if I run new wires? The older ones, to be frank, look a little brittle. It's preferable to use the dyno (since it's working) but the original off-white wiring (maybe it was white) looks like, well, 59 years old. On the same topic, I'd like to try a regulator and LED bulb replacement. Bad or not?

2-I"m a bit worried about the grips. They're old, and worn shiny and hard. A proper treatment of the handlebars, etc would be to remove them, but surely this may cause damage. How "bad" is it to replace them? I'm a Schwinn "root beer" grip fan, and would love to use some of those.

3-Galvanized spokes are in good shape, but the bike will clean up pretty well, and stainless would look so good. Is this a bad thing?

4-The original B66 is on it. Pretty stiff, and a couple tears near the front bolt. No doubt I can Proof it and make it more flexible, but worries about it's ability to be oiled and then ridden remain. Of course, I can get a new B66 but this is a '59 and I'd prefer an rhm re-cover if anything, but would prefer not to have to go that route if possible. Thoughts?

I know there are purists here, and I rarely go that route. On this bike, though, I'd kind of like to stay more "true" than all-day functional. My plan is to restore it, get some tweed, and go have a fun day somewhere, somehow.

I might as well throw in my two cents worth as I have a 1972 Root Beer Raleigh Sports waiting for a teardown and refurbish as well. Considering the time and love that goes into a project like this, I want to be pleased with the appearance and reliability of the final product. Ratty old wiring and cables and chains can be changed easily and enhance the look of the bike. Same with tires, grips and saddles if required. I know some keep the old parts as I once did, but I sold five vintage bikes last month and had saved some of the original parts and offered them to the buyers.(drop bars, pedals cables etc.) No one wanted them. I have two older Brooks saddles in the fleet but would not use one with a rivet tear for safety's sake. The galvanized spokes can be carefully cleaned with fine scotchbrite and waxed. Unless they are rusted they are likely fine. When upgrades or accessories are desired I try to keep it "period correct". Always try to save original paint and decals where possible. I must admit that it would be more like 150-200 for a complete project Raleigh that I intended to keep for myself. Have fun with it and we hope to see all your trials and tribulations.

BigChief 07-28-18 08:20 PM

Each project bike brings it's own questions of how to handle the balance between preservation, restoration and modification. They all have different limitations and possibilities. At this point, I would lean heavily on the preservation side for Pre TI Raleighs (1960) because they are becoming more rare and represent a high point for the design. About grips, original 1950s grips on English roadsters are very rare. Most every 50s roadster you find will have black Hunt Wilde aftermarket grips. Originals would be highly prized by someone. I have first hand experience here! Looking forward to seeing this bike.

Buellster 07-28-18 09:41 PM

Ross armstrong?
 
I imagine this is the thread to ask about this.
Does anyone know anything about the Brand Ross Armstrong?
this bike
https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/bik/d/vintage-50s-armstrong-3-speed/6649940780.html
seems like a good deal.
Any guesses on size? I'm hoping it's at least 23" or so. If the rear wheel is 27" or so it should be near that right?

Buellster 07-28-18 11:45 PM

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f796d8c0a4.jpg
Pic assit (no drive side pic)


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