Bike Forums

Bike Forums (https://www.bikeforums.net/forum.php)
-   Classic & Vintage (https://www.bikeforums.net/forumdisplay.php?f=181)
-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

gster 11-08-18 07:17 AM


Originally Posted by Stenavpix (Post 20653374)
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...72f0aaefa4.jpg

Current state.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...264a3bf24b.jpg

Rear view
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b3fb2529f3.jpg

Cuts a nice profile!
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...fe6c882511.jpg

Decals revealed after removing Batman tape and metal head badge
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5524d29595.jpg

Sturmey Archer AW. Stamped "62" "2"
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...367b936e2d.jpg

Front rim.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b97fc506eb.jpg

Front and rear fenders. Decal almost entirely worn off rear.
Hi, again. I think I can post photos now that I've achieved ten posts! I had all of this written out prior to joining this forum, so bear with me if it's kinda long. I found this bike, or should I say it found me, at a local thrift store. I knew it seemed something unique, but didn't pull the trigger on buying it for the $40 they originally wanted for it, and it looked like a kid had previously owned it as it had Batman duct tape over the seat and down tubes, but after a week of it sitting there and no one wanting it we negotiated a $25 price and it was mine! When I saw it originally I had taken some pictures of and had tried doing some research online about what kind of bike this might be. I Googled the "Royal" head badge and could only find one photo by someone selling a crusty one on U.K. Ebay for four Pounds. I did find all sorts of similar logos though, but nothing else that matched. I determined, I think, it was probably something made by Raleigh or a subsidiary. Through Sheldon Brown's site I found out how to determine it's age via the Sturmey Archer gear hub. It was indeed stamped "62" "2" "AW". So, 1962! Heck, that's old! I should know as I was born in 1964. ;-) I found the stamped serial number under the seat and it reads "26269 N PH". For some reason Sheldon Brown's and other sites skip how to decode serial #s from 1962 and 1963. So, anyone's guess is as good as mine what it means. I think since there is a "2" "62" close to each other at the beginning and that's the same as what's on the gear hub, I'm going with 1962 as year of build. The "N" some would saw could be made in Nottingham. The decal on the rear fender is mostly rubbed off, and I read on another site that's where it might say Nottingham. No idea about the "PH", well I do have a theory. After I cleaned off the Batman tape one could see remnants of the decal on the seat post of what appears to say "Made in England for someone Harris something building in New York". Well, I did find one other mention online of another person having a bike from this year and his decal read, "Made in England For D.P. Harris HDW & MFG Rollfast Building New York". Yup, that's what this one appears so say too. Does the "PH" on the stamped serial# mean P Harris? Furthering this theory, the only mention of a "Royal" brand on Brown's site says there was a "Royal Scot" (closest to Royal on the list) brand that was made for a major bicycle dealer in New York. So, that's my best guess. The bike was made in England by Raleigh for D.P. Harris (founder of the famous Rollfast bikes) in 1962. So, then, how did it get to Denver, Colorado? Someone thought enough of the bike to replace some parts at some point to keep it going; an aluminum USA Sunrim on the rear, a vinyl Avocet seat, a Nitto aluminum handle bar neck , Cheng Shin tires a added a nifty 1980s Union Dynamo front and rear light set (made in West Germany - it works!). I'm guessing the brake and gear cable lines and tubes may have been replaced too. Otherwise, best I can tell is everything else is original and I'm happy to report the thing rides great! The tires and tubes even are holding air after pumping them up and the gears and brakes work fine. I haven't really had to do anything but some cleaning, and I'll do more in the near future, plus lubricating. I love the rusty,rough patina. Anyway, that's the story so far on my 1962 Royal English 3-speed. I know it's a "B" brand Raleigh and probably not worth very much money, but it has character and I love it! If anyone has any info or corrections, please feel free to chime in.

Cool bike and I like the price..
I notice that the trigger is on the wrong side.
Depending on your skill level, I would attend to the bottom bracket and headset bearings.
A short term temp fix is to pour some heavy oil (not too much) down the seat tube and let the
excess seep out the bottom.
I agree to leave the paint/patina alone other than a good cleaning.
Keep your eye open for a vintage leather saddle to top it off.

56ford 11-08-18 08:55 AM

Good morning. I have a question... The 3 speed hub on my late 50's Hercules says "3 Speed Model NO14522 HUB" on it and I don't see any other markings on it. I cannot seem to find any information on it. Anyone hear of that hub model? The bike had a mix match of parts on it so it could have been from anything. Thanks!

Stenavpix 11-08-18 09:39 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20653646)
Cool bike and I like the price..
I notice that the trigger is on the wrong side.
Depending on your skill level, I would attend to the bottom bracket and headset bearings.
A short term temp fix is to pour some heavy oil (not too much) down the seat tube and let the
excess seep out the bottom.
I agree to leave the paint/patina alone other than a good cleaning.
Keep your eye open for a vintage leather saddle to top it off.

Thank you! Is the purpose of pouring oil down the seat rube to oil the crank? If so it does has an oil port there. I'm reading here on this site that 20 weight motor oil is what I should use for this and in the Sturmey Archer gear hub? My car uses 5w20. Would that work?

Regarding the trigger (I assume shifter? Sorry,I'm still learning the lingo) I tried moving it already and unfortunately due to the lack of slack in the cable and the curves of the handle bar it pretty much only fits there where it is. Otherwise, the cable fitting coming out of the shifter bends and/or the clamp won't fit well enough to tighten the bracket screws.

Yea, I love the battle-worn patina. I'd also love to know what it has gone through to have all the scrapes, bumps and bruises. Fortunately, here in Denver since it's so dry we have no trouble with things rusting so doubt any aging will get much worse as ling as it's not kept outside all the time.

Yes, I'll be keeping an eye out for a new seat for sure. I'm a thrift store junky so am always on the lookout for a deal! hehehttps://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c4d7d80bc.jpeg

Stenavpix 11-08-18 09:48 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20653524)
Welcome to the English roadster club! You got a great deal there. Good detective work. Looks like someone who knew what they were doing turned this old bike into a real rider. The stem was changed to get a bit more reach and they lowered the overall gearing with what looks to be a 22T cog on the AW hub. New chain, cables, alloy rims and an inexpensive but useable seat. Not kid stuff. I'm not surprised it rides well.

Thanks, BigChief! I forgot to post a photo of the serial number. Here it is as well as a pic of the bike as I found it in the thrift store complete with Batman tape! Like I said I can't find any reference to decode 1962 #s anywhere so far. And yeah, I'd love to know when and where someone did all that work to keep it road worthy. Thanks for the welcoming feedback everyone!https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...edbd59d364.jpg

Serial number. does the "2" "62" that matches the numbers on the hub mean 1962? "N" for Nottingham? "PH" for DP Harris?
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8215c2fbcf.jpg

As it was in the thrift store. It was tipped on it's side. it does look like a Gotham City bike with the Batman tape, eh?

gster 11-08-18 09:58 AM


Originally Posted by Stenavpix (Post 20653858)
Thank you! Is the purpose of pouring oil down the seat rube to oil the crank? If so it does has an oil port there. I'm reading here on this site that 20 weight motor oil is what I should use for this and in the Sturmey Archer gear hub? My car uses 5w20. Would that work?

Regarding the trigger (I assume shifter? Sorry,I'm still learning the lingo) I tried moving it already and unfortunately due to the lack of slack in the cable and the curves of the handle bar it pretty much only fits there where it is. Otherwise, the cable fitting coming out of the shifter bends and/or the clamp won't fit well enough to tighten the bracket screws.

Yea, I love the battle-worn patina. I'd also love to know what it has gone through to have all the scrapes, bumps and bruises. Fortunately, here in Denver since it's so dry we have no trouble with things rusting so doubt any aging will get much worse as ling as it's not kept outside all the time.

Yes, I'll be keeping an eye out for a new seat for sure. I'm a thrift store junky so am always on the lookout for a deal! hehehttps://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c4d7d80bc.jpeg

Yes, to lubricate the BB bearings, I've got some heavy weight gear oil. But this is only a temporary solution until you get it apart and do a proper repack.
I use a blue marine grease.
Most of us use the blue 3 in 1 oil in the hub, a few drops every couple of months seems to to the trick.
As far as the trigger,someone has replaced the cable with one that was too short.
New ones are readily available from most bike shops @ $8.00-10.00
You'll need to trim the housing to fit your set up.
Trigger is traditionally mounted flat (parallel to the ground) in front of the right caliper.
This is, of course, a personal preference..
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...775069596b.jpg

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...de0f75b3eb.jpg

Sugar Mountain 11-08-18 10:25 AM

I'm trying to post some images on the Raleigh bike but not sure its working. The stainless steel part at the center of the back wheel says Sturmy Archer and has the numbers 08 or 80 depending on which way you read it. At the bottom of the center of the bike (between the pedals) is the number 122822 if I'm reading it correctly. Still trying to find out if it is a 1969 bike.

Stenavpix 11-08-18 01:09 PM


Originally Posted by Sugar Mountain (Post 20653948)
I'm trying to post some images on the Raleigh bike but not sure its working. The stainless steel part at the center of the back wheel says Sturmy Archer and has the numbers 08 or 80 depending on which way you read it. At the bottom of the center of the bike (between the pedals) is the number 122822 if I'm reading it correctly. Still trying to find out if it is a 1969 bike.

Hi, i'm new too. To avoid spammers you have to have ten posts accumulated before you can post photos and links. (you have two currently - it's under you avatar on the left) Also, they only allow five posts per 24 hours. So, it took me three days to be able to achieve the requirements to any photos. You need 8 more posts. Good luck! :-)

Stenavpix 11-08-18 01:52 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20653892)
Yes, to lubricate the BB bearings, I've got some heavy weight gear oil. But this is only a temporary solution until you get it apart and do a proper repack.
I use a blue marine grease.
Most of us use the blue 3 in 1 oil in the hub, a few drops every couple of months seems to to the trick.
As far as the trigger,someone has replaced the cable with one that was too short.
New ones are readily available from most bike shops @ $8.00-10.00
You'll need to trim the housing to fit your set up.
Trigger is traditionally mounted flat (parallel to the ground) in front of the right caliper.
This is, of course, a personal preference..
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...775069596b.jpg

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...de0f75b3eb.jpg

Thank you. Right now the shifter isn't a big deal, but I do like that placing you have there. I might even have a cable already in that I have been working on another vintage bike project, which I'll be posting about in the near future. If not, I do have a great local bike shop here. Unfortunately, I probably won't be doing much work until next spring in that the cold is settling in and I have no indoor work area. Now to find some of that oil...

56ford 11-08-18 02:09 PM

Does anyone know how to take a vintage cottered crank chain ring and use it with a cotter less 3 piece setup?

wahoonc 11-08-18 02:27 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20653352)
The older ones do have lock nuts on both cones, but I've only seen the dyno mounted drive side in the catalog pictures Having trouble resisting this one. Especially since I don't have a project going.

The old catalogs are all artwork rather than photos. I have seen it done both ways in the 50's, prior to that they seem to be on the left side.

Aaron :)

desconhecido 11-08-18 03:20 PM


Originally Posted by Stenavpix (Post 20653876)
Thanks, BigChief! I forgot to post a photo of the serial number. Here it is as well as a pic of the bike as I found it in the thrift store complete with Batman tape! Like I said I can't find any reference to decode 1962 #s anywhere so far. And yeah, I'd love to know when and where someone did all that work to keep it road worthy. Thanks for the welcoming feedback everyone!https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...edbd59d364.jpg

Serial number. does the "2" "62" that matches the numbers on the hub mean 1962? "N" for Nottingham? "PH" for DP Harris?
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8215c2fbcf.jpg

As it was in the thrift store. It was tipped on it's side. it does look like a Gotham City bike with the Batman tape, eh?

Looks like a real good deal.

The rear wheel shows to have a CR18 sticker on it. The Sun CR18 rim is the best modern replacement rim for the 26 X 1-3/8 EA3 rims. Looks like it has stainless spokes as well. I think those rims are going for about $30, or so, these days and to build it with SS spokes-- probably $50 in parts (rim and spokes). So, that's a good thing right there -- the rear wheel with hub alone is worth the entry.

Salubrious 11-08-18 03:35 PM


Originally Posted by 56ford (Post 20654378)
Does anyone know how to take a vintage cottered crank chain ring and use it with a cotter less 3 piece setup?

There really isn't any way to do that without some sort of machining.

Nervar used to make the Nervar Sport crankset, which was initially a steel cottered crank with alloy chainrings. Later versions were cotterless but still made of steel. There were also cottered alloy cranksets, but they are quite rare! Generally speaking, cottered cranks are easier to work with once you have a proper cotter press. They are less likely to creak and loosen up.

BigChief 11-08-18 03:58 PM


Originally Posted by wahoonc (Post 20654409)
The old catalogs are all artwork rather than photos. I have seen it done both ways in the 50's, prior to that they seem to be on the left side.

Aaron :)

In any case, this 1950 Sports has locknuts so won't have damage from the left side mounting. I like this bike. One of the best CL ads I've seen in a long time.

Stenavpix 11-08-18 04:00 PM


Originally Posted by desconhecido (Post 20654483)
Looks like a real good deal.

The rear wheel shows to have a CR18 sticker on it. The Sun CR18 rim is the best modern replacement rim for the 26 X 1-3/8 EA3 rims. Looks like it has stainless spokes as well. I think those rims are going for about $30, or so, these days and to build it with SS spokes-- probably $50 in parts (rim and spokes). So, that's a good thing right there -- the rear wheel with hub alone is worth the entry.

Oh, real good to know! Thanks! I think that Nitto handle bar stem is going for $20-$30 on eBay too. A used Union Dynamo light set (1980s) is going for $25. (the lens on this one is cracked though). Based on these replaced parts: rim, spokes, handlebar neck and that Avocet O2 seat, does anyone have a guess as to when the work may have been done on this?

56ford 11-08-18 04:22 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 20654512)
There really isn't any way to do that without some sort of machining.

Nervar used to make the Nervar Sport crankset, which was initially a steel cottered crank with alloy chainrings. Later versions were cotterless but still made of steel. There were also cottered alloy cranksets, but they are quite rare! Generally speaking, cottered cranks are easier to work with once you have a proper cotter press. They are less likely to creak and loosen up.

I figured that was going to be the case.

gster 11-08-18 05:35 PM


Originally Posted by Stenavpix (Post 20654536)
Oh, real good to know! Thanks! I think that Nitto handle bar stem is going for $20-$30 on eBay too. A used Union Dynamo light set (1980s) is going for $25. (the lens on this one is cracked though). Based on these replaced parts: rim, spokes, handlebar neck and that Avocet O2 seat, does anyone have a guess as to when the work may have been done on this?

Think I found your bike
Royal Crown Lightweight, made for D.P. Harris...1956
$77.50 in 1956 would cost $510.00 today

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3d21fc5ea9.jpg

gster 11-08-18 05:37 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20654665)
Think I found your bike
Royal Crown Lightweight, made for D.P. Harris...1956
$77.50 in 1956 would cost $510.00 today

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3d21fc5ea9.jpg

Another one
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0b996382bb.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a3753bb530.jpg

gster 11-08-18 05:45 PM

More info
Apparently sold at Firestone stores...
https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/pa...crowns.110056/

Stenavpix 11-08-18 07:37 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20654665)
Think I found your bike
Royal Crown Lightweight, made for D.P. Harris...1956
$77.50 in 1956 would cost $510.00 today

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3d21fc5ea9.jpg

That is way cool! Not much different six years later, eh? Wonder if the '62 had the chain guard and was sold with those accessories. I got the impression when doing my research that once Raleigh bought many of the smaller companies out around 1960 some of the builds weren't as robust afterwards. Hence maybe why the '62 is just called "Royal". I need to steal that pic for my photo blog. hehe Thanks!

BigChief 11-08-18 08:34 PM


Originally Posted by Stenavpix (Post 20654820)
That is way cool! Not much different six years later, eh? Wonder if the '62 had the chain guard and was sold with those accessories. I got the impression when doing my research that once Raleigh bought many of the smaller companies out around 1960 some of the builds weren't as robust afterwards. Hence maybe why the '62 is just called "Royal". I need to steal that pic for my photo blog. hehe Thanks!

The bike in this ad looks American to me. The one piece crank and shark fin front mudguard stand out. Hard to say, but it looks like a welded frame too. Raleigh made so many custom label bikes that it's hard to keep track of them all. The OP's bike is typical of these from the early 60s. I have one too. A Royal Scot. There's a good chance the Royal looked very similar with white grips and cable housings. And this seat which is truly horrible to ride on. BTW, mine has a dealer sticker from "Wheel Goods" in Minneapolis

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c8e7c9cb8a.jpg

Stenavpix 11-08-18 09:16 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20654872)
The bike in this ad looks American to me. The one piece crank and shark fin front mudguard stand out. Hard to say, but it looks like a welded frame too. Raleigh made so many custom label bikes that it's hard to keep track of them all. The OP's bike is typical of these from the early 60s. I have one too. A Royal Scot. There's a good chance the Royal looked very similar with white grips and cable housings. And this seat which is truly horrible to ride on. BTW, mine has a dealer sticker from "Wheel Goods" in Minneapolis

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c8e7c9cb8a.jpg

That is a beauty. Yup, so similar to mine. I'm grateful to learn so much about these bicycles from you all!

gster 11-09-18 06:28 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20654872)
The bike in this ad looks American to me. The one piece crank and shark fin front mudguard stand out. Hard to say, but it looks like a welded frame too. Raleigh made so many custom label bikes that it's hard to keep track of them all. The OP's bike is typical of these from the early 60s. I have one too. A Royal Scot. There's a good chance the Royal looked very similar with white grips and cable housings. And this seat which is truly horrible to ride on. BTW, mine has a dealer sticker from "Wheel Goods" in Minneapolis

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c8e7c9cb8a.jpg

I have a similar bike with a terrible saddle.
1964 AMF Hercules.
A very original bike so I've left the seat as is...
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6c799ffcda.jpg

clubman 11-09-18 06:44 AM


Originally Posted by Stenavpix (Post 20654820)
Hence maybe why the '62 is just called "Royal". I need to steal that pic for my photo blog. hehe Thanks!

Odds are good yours is 'just' a Royal. I had one and I've seen a couple of others in the wild. What part of the world did you find your bike?

Stenavpix 11-09-18 07:32 AM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 20655156)
Odds are good yours is 'just' a Royal. I had one and I've seen a couple of others in the wild. What part of the world did you find your bike?

It seems they ran out of names to go with Royal and someone thought, hey, we haven't just used Royal yet! Done. LOL

I'm in Denver.

BigChief 11-09-18 08:34 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20655147)
I have a similar bike with a terrible saddle.
1964 AMF Hercules.
A very original bike so I've left the seat as is...
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6c799ffcda.jpg

I don't care for those saddles either, but it's nowhere near as bad as the one they used on the Scot. That one is an actual kiddie saddle like the ones on Space Riders. Sprung for someone who weighs maybe 70 pounds. On a 23" framed bike! Somebody in the bad ideas department was working overtime on this one. Then they went a bit overboard on the seat tube transfer. I suppose it's cool in a funky sort of way.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...83f0487201.jpg


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:25 AM.


Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.