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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

Bicyclz 06-08-19 08:54 AM

1960 Royal Enfield Superlight 3 speed anybody?
 
Love the 3 speed thread: )
Here's my latest Ebay find. A Royal Enfield Superlight Tourist with original 3 speed AG hub dated 1960. 531 main tubed frame is always good?
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8116d753ad.jpg
Note the front hub brake. And Raleigh chain-set with removable rings! New to me. The front lamp is cool too.
These are normally 3 speeds with 26" steel wheels.

Bought it for the frame, but the original paint on this one is possibly worth keeping? (Was intending to powdercoat it: )

I've already stripped it down & rebuilt it with a set of 650Bs from another machine just to try it out. I'm looking at using 700 alloy rims eventually.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c6c3fbbb9b.jpg
Rides like a 3 speed should, but it needs brakes...

Alloy rims = good brakes & this is my other 1955ish RE Superlight frame built up as a Town Bike/Light Tourer with an FM 4 speed hub.
These frames take 700 rims with room for guards, so it is an obvious upgrade. Mainly for good braking, but also lighter: )
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f710facf5b.jpg
Love the 1950s Royal Enfields; ) The above is 26lb as seen & very nice to ride.
I'm keeping a diary of this ones progression on my website if you are interested: Royal Enfield Superlight ? Bicyclz.com

paulb_in_bkln 06-08-19 09:05 AM


Originally Posted by Ged117 (Post 20968583)
This is an AG hub with a Cyclo derailer three speed added onto it I assume at purchase or just afterward. Right now I'm fitting just the AG and the cogset to make sure the AG shifts properly before installing the Cyclo parts.

With an AW there's no moving the hub left or right on the axle. I imagine the AG is the same way. You can get a right side axle nut that combines, into one piece, the hex nut and the part with the indicator window. That will solve the insufficient threads problem. As for the indicator chain, the length is correct when with it pulled out all the way the rod peeps a little bit over the end of the axle. But a shorter one should work, in my experience. But you lose the handy visual guide to position.

jackbombay 06-08-19 09:24 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20968366)
I've never put anywhere near that level of stress on an AW but I can tell you this. I think the most likely point of failure would be the splined joint of the cog to the driver. I would stick to 1/8" cogs not the 3/32". Every bit of purchase helps. Also, sometimes the drivers aren't machined perfectly and there can be either too much slop or too tight of a fit so the circlip doesn't fully engage in it's channel. It's rare, but I have run into both of those conditions over the years.

I hadn't considered that being a point of failure, I was figuring that something inside the hub would give first. To shear off 3 of the splines on the cog would really take some torque though, the cog is hardened steel.


Originally Posted by horatio (Post 20968332)
Thanks for the info. Fork is still in the bike, on the repair stand. Would they be easier to bend out of the frame?

Out of the bike would be more precise, you could make a couple of chunks of 2x4 with a hole drilled in them and cut them in half so you could clamp the steer tube in a vice then work one leg at a time, you could put a long 2x4 between the legs of the fork to pry on the end of one leg with the other end of the 2x4 right up against the fork crown.

Johno59 06-08-19 09:56 AM


Originally Posted by Ged117 (Post 20968536)
Hey all,

I've got an issue with axle room on the drive side for the three speed cog. When I place the original washers in their position as found when I disassembled, there isn't enough room for the axle to slide into the drop out with enough leftover for the indicator chain bolt (the name escapes me right now). If I remove spacing washers, the tube is too close to the cog set which results in chain rub. Any thoughts? I'm new to setting these up so it's a bit confusing. Did I somehow move the axle too far toward the non drive side? Photo:
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2474c81d54.jpg

Go on ebay and search for 3 speed freewheel. Costs about 10 bucks . The block is easily compact enough to give you lots of clearance.https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7a2d127d2c.jpg

3 speed freewheel on a 1946 SA IGH 4 speed.

Johno59 06-08-19 10:06 AM

Hi DQ,
Been anticipating your winter project for a while. Thought maybe your prang was worse than you let on.
Good to see you back. Can't wait to see your latest masterpiece.!

BigChief 06-08-19 04:49 PM


Originally Posted by jackbombay (Post 20968647)
I hadn't considered that being a point of failure, I was figuring that something inside the hub would give first. To shear off 3 of the splines on the cog would really take some torque though, the cog is hardened steel.



Out of the bike would be more precise, you could make a couple of chunks of 2x4 with a hole drilled in them and cut them in half so you could clamp the steer tube in a vice then work one leg at a time, you could put a long 2x4 between the legs of the fork to pry on the end of one leg with the other end of the 2x4 right up against the fork crown.

They don't sheer off. If there's too much play between the shims and the circlip, the round splines will tip side to side, want to cam up and make a mess of the channels in the driver. Or, if the fit is too tight, it's possible to think the circlip is seated when it isn't fully. There was one other failure I saw from a member on this board. He had a crunched sun gear. No idea what caused it and I have never seen this myself, but I have seen buggered up spline channels on drivers a couple of times. Both from loose fitting cogs I believe and I dont think they were under anything close to the stress you're talking about.

jackbombay 06-08-19 07:00 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20969172)
They don't sheer off. If there's too much play between the shims and the circlip, the round splines will tip side to side, want to cam up and make a mess of the channels in the driver. Or, if the fit is too tight, it's possible to think the circlip is seated when it isn't fully. There was one other failure I saw from a member on this board. He had a crunched sun gear. No idea what caused it and I have never seen this myself, but I have seen buggered up spline channels on drivers a couple of times. Both from loose fitting cogs I believe and I dont think they were under anything close to the stress you're talking about.

My cog fits the driver well, no slop, and the circlip fits well in it's groove.

There are certainly other 28 hole AW hubs for sale on Ebay, so worst case scenario if this one fails I can get another.

thumpism 06-08-19 07:10 PM

I probably have a 28H, as well as 32H and 40H.

jackbombay 06-08-19 07:22 PM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 20969336)
I probably have a 28H, as well as 32H and 40H.

Ahhh, good to know, I bet there are more than a few lurking in workshops of people that frequent this thread!

Current wheel is 28H so thats what I'd need if this one doesn't survive...

I figure I'll oil it before and during the ride to give it the best chance of making it, and ultimately I've put so many miles on Sturmeys over the years with zero issues that I'd be a little surprised if something actually happens to this one on a long steep ride.

clubman 06-08-19 08:43 PM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 20969336)
I probably have a 28H, as well as 32H and 40H.

Don't mean to be a contrarian but 32? Pics?

edit. Well, there's a bunch of newer 32 hole SA IGH hubs on ebay, 5-8 speeds, 2 speed kickbacks etc. Who knew?

No AW's though. I'm thinking these new ones are for 130 mm frames.

thumpism 06-08-19 10:40 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 20969458)
Don't mean to be a contrarian but 32? Pics?

edit. Well, there's a bunch of newer 32 hole SA IGH hubs on ebay, 5-8 speeds, 2 speed kickbacks etc. Who knew?

No AW's though. I'm thinking these new ones are for 130 mm frames.

All my stuff is old and I'm pretty sure I have a 32H out in the garage. I'll get pix of the ones I have.

clubman 06-09-19 06:23 AM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 20969554)
All my stuff is old and I'm pretty sure I have a 32H out in the garage. I'll get pix of the ones I have.

No biggy, I know you know this stuff. It's just a bit of a unicorn to me.

paulb_in_bkln 06-09-19 10:17 AM

Pretty good about the adventures of a three-speed Moulton and also some about its human owner.https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...afd92b4ef9.jpg

thumpism 06-09-19 05:31 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 20969778)
No biggy, I know you know this stuff. It's just a bit of a unicorn to me.

Well, I might have misremembered. I could have sworn I had one of each drilling but could not find a 32H when I looked today. I have a loose 28H, two loose 40H, and I also have two 36H in built wheels. All those in addition to the ones (4 x 36H) that are on bikes. So, I will keep looking but last time I went through this stuff I tried to put all like items together. Sorry for the confusion but we're still at the point where I might or might not have one of the 32H.

Rollfast 06-09-19 07:48 PM


Originally Posted by horatio (Post 20958982)
Update on the '52 Sports. WD40 flush of the IGH got things moving again, but I've been unable to hook up and ride, as the front tire has succumbed to dry-rot. Anyone successfully coax a modern 700c wheel with 100mm hub into these forks? I'm not quite strong enough to pry them apart, so I may do a cold set with threaded rod.

If you can't get it done, go to the local tire shop or a mechanic and let them help you...I've been to Les Schwab Tires in a pinch more than a few times *and I still have a good credit account even if I haven't owned a car in 13 years.

jackbombay 06-09-19 09:56 PM

I'm just posting so I can get to 10 posts so I can post pics.

jackbombay 06-09-19 09:57 PM

One more post, because I have a couple of sweet Hercules that I want to post pics of in the "H" thread.

jackbombay 06-09-19 09:58 PM

This is my 10th post, so I can technically post pics now, but, I can only post 5 times in 24 hours soooo, see you guys tomorrow night!

gster 06-10-19 05:40 AM


Originally Posted by Johno59 (Post 20968673)
Go on ebay and search for 3 speed freewheel. Costs about 10 bucks . The block is easily compact enough to give you lots of clearance.https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7a2d127d2c.jpg

3 speed freewheel on a 1946 SA IGH 4 speed.

I'm not a big fan of derailleurs but that ones quite nice.

thumpism 06-10-19 09:57 AM


Originally Posted by jackbombay (Post 20970836)
This is my 10th post, so I can technically post pics now, but, I can only post 5 times in 24 hours soooo, see you guys tomorrow night!

Are you the same jackbombay who posts on Samba?

clubman 06-10-19 01:25 PM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20969986)
Pretty good about the adventures of a three-speed Moulton and also some about its human owner.https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...afd92b4ef9.jpg

Eleanor was 60's cool. A Moulton is proper

Oldsledz 06-10-19 05:48 PM

I got this Hawthorne Hercules about a month ago, the hub is dated 10 of 62 , I don't see any bikes with the Hercules name with this style chain guard did they mix in Raleigh parts on some bikes?https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0184585ddd.jpghttps://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...81e948d54a.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...60635f3fe6.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f8ef73e470.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4c26708adc.jpg

Original Tires?
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...bd52cbaf8b.jpg

76SLT 06-10-19 07:16 PM


Originally Posted by Oldsledz (Post 20972180)
I got this Hawthorne Hercules about a month ago, the hub is dated 10 of 62 , I don't see any bikes with the Hercules name with this style chain guard did they mix in Raleigh parts on some bikes?https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0184585ddd.jpghttps://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...81e948d54a.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...60635f3fe6.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f8ef73e470.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4c26708adc.jpg

Original Tires?
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...bd52cbaf8b.jpg

It looks identical to the chainguard on my 63 Armstrong too.https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e0b5dc4fc7.jpg

paulb_in_bkln 06-10-19 07:18 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 20971804)
Eleanor was 60's cool.

No kidding. I really know her just from Help and Bedazzled but I will now try to watch more. The book is self-effacing and very well written, and she hits her stride in the second half with a trip through the Netherlands, which she loves, and a visit to a windmill that is as good as any travel writing I know. Used copies might as well be falling off trees, they're that cheap and easy to find.

BigChief 06-10-19 07:33 PM


Originally Posted by 76SLT (Post 20972285)
It looks identical to the chainguard on my 63 Armstrong too.https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e0b5dc4fc7.jpg

It is a Raleigh chainguard. Mudguards too. That is an unusual model. Looks all original. Even the torpedo grips. Odd that they left the Hercules transfer on a bike badged for Monkey Wards. I suppose TI was using up parts from the Birmingham factories after they bought out Raleigh in 1960 and moved all production to Nottingham. Cool bike.


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