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-   -   Totally Tubular (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=154679)

pastorbobnlnh 08-10-20 03:52 AM


Originally Posted by CV-6 (Post 21632556)
This has to be used with CaffeLatex already in the tube. It will not work by itself.

Yes, I realized this and spotted it in the listing's specifications. I haven't added any sealant to my Tufo's yet and have both Tufo and CaffeLatex on hand.

While kcblair mentions he is running Stan's sealant, it might be worth the time researching to see if this product might work with Stan's and save his Tufo. At $10-15 it might be worth just trying.

kcblair 08-10-20 09:07 AM


Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh (Post 21632660)
Yes, I realized this and spotted it in the listing's specifications. I haven't added any sealant to my Tufo's yet and have both Tufo and CaffeLatex on hand.

While kcblair mentions he is running Stan's sealant, it might be worth the time researching to see if this product might work with Stan's and save his Tufo. At $10-15 it might be worth just trying.

Thanks Bob, Yes, I think it's worth a try, before I toss the the Tufo. KB

squirtdad 08-10-20 09:27 AM


Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh (Post 21632660)
Yes, I realized this and spotted it in the listing's specifications. I haven't added any sealant to my Tufo's yet and have both Tufo and CaffeLatex on hand.

While kcblair mentions he is running Stan's sealant, it might be worth the time researching to see if this product might work with Stan's and save his Tufo. At $10-15 it might be worth just trying.

just to note, in running sealant in tubed clinchers at high pressure (which is a non optimum set up) caffelatex has worked the best. It is my current go to for sealant. that Zot stuff look interesting I will need to order some

kcblair 08-10-20 01:29 PM


Originally Posted by squirtdad (Post 21633117)
just to note, in running sealant in tubed clinchers at high pressure (which is a non optimum set up) caffelatex has worked the best. It is my current go to for sealant. that Zot stuff look interesting I will need to order some

Thanks squirtdad, here's an idea. What if I would release the air, remove valve core, rotate stem to bottom, and squeeze out the Stans. Then add 60 'll. of caffelatex ?
All this with wheel of the bike and the punctured Tufo on the rim. KB

squirtdad 08-10-20 02:13 PM


Originally Posted by kcblair (Post 21633664)
Thanks squirtdad, here's an idea. What if I would release the air, remove valve core, rotate stem to bottom, and squeeze out the Stans. Then add 60 'll. of caffelatex ?
All this with wheel of the bike and the punctured Tufo on the rim. KB

can't hurt to try for sure. I think 30ml is what is called for a 700c tire.

squirtdad 08-14-20 03:40 PM

out of curiosity what are people doing for tire pressures?

I am a big guy (243) and have pretty much always gone to make pressure for the tire tubie or clincher

I am riding Vittoria Corsa Control in 30mm Max on side of the tire is 115 psi. I have been riding front a 110 and back at 115.

My LBS go to guy (brought the Miyata by for him to try) commented that a could go lower so today I tried 90 front and 100 rear. Ride was noticeably smoother and didn't feel slower

smontanaro 08-14-20 05:47 PM


Originally Posted by squirtdad (Post 21641399)
out of curiosity what are people doing for tire pressures?

I have Veloflex Vlaanderen (27mm) on my Griffon, the bike I've been riding most lately. I weigh 170-175. I've been running 55 front, 75 rear recently. That seems to be working well for me.

L134 08-15-20 07:13 AM

same tire (but now ProTour), same weight, about the same psi works well for me too. I pump front to 60 psi and rear to 5 bar and pump every 2-3 days.


Originally Posted by smontanaro (Post 21641649)
I have Veloflex Vlaanderen (27mm) on my Griffon, the bike I've been riding most lately. I weigh 170-175. I've been running 55 front, 75 rear recently. That seems to be working well for me.


Classtime 08-15-20 09:47 AM

My Vittoria Corsa in 23mm are usually at 90 and 85 and feel pretty smooth. My Vittoria Rallys in 25mm are harsher at that pressure but I usually ride them a little lower. I got a nasty sidewall cut on my rear Rally yesterday that resulted in a remarkably fast deflation on a descent. I hit the only rock in the road at the worst angle I guess. Vittoria base tape is a bear to get off and I'm dreading this repair.

79pmooney 08-15-20 10:55 AM


Originally Posted by Classtime (Post 21642451)
My Vittoria Corsa in 23mm are usually at 90 and 85 and feel pretty smooth. My Vittoria Rallys in 25mm are harsher at that pressure but I usually ride them a little lower. I got a nasty sidewall cut on my rear Rally yesterday that resulted in a remarkably fast deflation on a descent. I hit the only rock in the road at the worst angle I guess. Vittoria base tape is a bear to get off and I'm dreading this repair.

i haven't gotten back into tubulars yet but it's happening. My current rims are my last clinchers. I've been riding the open Corsa G+ and plan to go G+ or 2.0 tubulars. Solidly glued base tape? Yeah! I'm too old to do any more crashes that are in any way preventable. A serious incentive for me to go back to tubulars is for the security in high speed deflations. I had a clincher blow and come off at <25 mph. Almost a top 5 crash in a long life of riding. Doing that at 40+. A recurring nightmare. A solid Tubasti glue job and secure base tape? That's the ticket to just stopping and changing the tire at any speed, A place where boring is really, really good.

So even the cheap Rally's have secure base tape. Thanks. Sounds like nothing has changed. The $15 Vittorias of the '70 I trained and club raced on were good, reliable tires and I went through a lot of them. (My 9-10,000 mile years, all on sewups. We never called them tubulars then.)

Ben

smontanaro 08-15-20 12:06 PM


Originally Posted by L134 (Post 21642249)
same tire (but now ProTour), same weight, about the same psi works well for me too. I pump front to 60 psi and rear to 5 bar and pump every 2-3 days.

If you only have to inflate every 2-3 days, does that imply the ProTour has a butyl inner tube? I inflate my Vlaanderen before every ride (known to have latex tubes). They lose 5-10psi in a day.

L134 08-15-20 12:21 PM


Originally Posted by smontanaro (Post 21642643)
If you only have to inflate every 2-3 days, does that imply the ProTour has a butyl inner tube? I inflate my Vlaanderen before every ride (known to have latex tubes). They lose 5-10psi in a day.

no, they have latex. I’ve just never been all that fond of pumping tires. If I’m going out for 10-15 miles on smooth roads I might skip the pumping. For a more substantial ride or ride on rough surfaces, then I will pump before each ride.

I was sort of suggesting my 60 today might be your 55 tomorrow.

CV-6 08-15-20 05:21 PM

Today riding FMB Paris-Roubaix 25mm at 85 front and rear. I weigh 225 lb. I know experts are recommending lower pressure for the front, but when you brake, your weight shifts forward.

rustystrings61 08-21-20 11:07 AM


Originally Posted by CV-6 (Post 21643062)
I know experts are recommending lower pressure for the front, but when you brake, your weight shifts forward.

Thank you for saying that. I have gone back to equal pressure front and rear because I wind up standing on the bike, which also shifts weight forward.

smontanaro 08-21-20 12:11 PM


Originally Posted by CV-6 (Post 21643062)
Today riding FMB Paris-Roubaix 25mm at 85 front and rear. I weigh 225 lb. I know experts are recommending lower pressure for the front, but when you brake, your weight shifts forward.

I'm not sure the front/rear differential is enough to cause problems, and most braking isn't of the panic stop variety. Seems to me that the softer "suspension" makes for more comfortable riding, especially over long distances.

Jan Heine is someone I think of as a tire pressure expert. In this post about braking, he said nothing about changing the way he approached tire pressures, so I presume he didn't deviate from his usual recommendations.

Wildwood 08-21-20 02:58 PM

Have we done this in a while - list your favorite (tubular) tire - within a given category. Then state the tire brands you have owned.

You make up the categories.

My favorite:

Cheap tubular for a racy bike = Conti Giro

Tubular for mixed surface = Schwalbe ProOne 30mm (i think that was the model name)

Best all round rider = VeloFlex, either 25 or 28mm (Roubaix and Vlaanderan were the old names)


My tubular experience is Conti, Schwalbe, VeloFlex, Vittoria (only the cheapie Rally and a knobbed cyclocross tire), and several brands no longer produced.

I have Vittoria's new expensive clinchers with latex tubes, which I love, but have yet to buy the tubular version.


Finally, liquid latex tire sealant has reduced the number of tires I've bought in the last 3 or 4 years.

seedsbelize 08-21-20 03:06 PM


Originally Posted by Wildwood (Post 21653562)
Have we done this in a while - list your favorite (tubular) tire - within a given category. Then state the tire brands you have owned.

You make up the categories.

My favorite:

Cheap tubular for a racy bike = Conti Giro

Tubular for mixed surface = Schwalbe ProOne 30mm (i think that was the model name)

Best all round rider = VeloFlex, either 25 or 28mm (Roubaix and Vlaanderan were the old names)


My tubular experience is Conti, Schwalbe, VeloFlex, Vittoria (only the cheapie Rally and a knobbed cyclocross tire), and several brands no longer produced.

I have Vittoria's new expensive clinchers with latex tubes, which I love, but have yet to buy the tubular version.


Finally, liquid latex tire sealant has reduced the number of tires I've bought in the last 3 or 4 years.

Do you use it prophylactically, or as needed?

Wildwood 08-21-20 10:40 PM


Originally Posted by seedsbelize (Post 21653574)
Do you use it prophylactically, or as needed?

Both.
But never on the road.
Or in public view. (my workspace is private)

YMMV ;)

candango 08-21-20 11:12 PM

Glues and cements for tubulars
 
More than 20 years ago, I used a contact cement (came in a small tube which carried in my small repair kit), to adhere tubular tires to the rim when repairing them and mounting them. The cement had the advantage of remaining slightly tacky, so that if you had a flat during a ride, you could remove the tire from the rim using only your hands. And there was sufficient cement still on the rim so that you could stretch and mount a spare and inflate it and happily ride off. It was great for commuting and general touring. Alas, it appears to be no longer available in this country. The glues and cements available these days tend to turn rock hard, preventing the easy removal of the flatted tire from the rim. I realize this is to prevent the tire rolling off the rim, but it really hinders the ability to change the tire in the field. So what are you all using these days to glue the tires on? Is anyone using a cement which remains tacky?

Additionally, what are people using to adhere the base tape to the tire after making a repair? Some of the literature favors liquid latex and some sources recommend the orange sealant used to seal leaks in tubeless tires. I tried it and found it did not work at all, it was more water and too little latex. Some people suggested Barge contact cement, used by shoemakers. What do you all use? Thanks

Wildwood 08-21-20 11:22 PM

Try mastik. Vittoria was the last i used. And back in the day we didn't use so much glue, unless a racer.

And yeah, i carry a tube of glue with my spare tubular. But also a small bottle of liquid latex. Save the tire if possible. Only for tires with removable valve cores.

edit: even mastik will harden over time.

Andy Antipas 08-23-20 02:33 PM

favorite tubular tires
 
Wildwood "Best all round rider = VeloFlex, either 25 or 28mm (Roubaix and Vlaanderan were the old names)"

Great tires. My favorites.

I have other tubular tire brands in the fleet, but Veloflex are the most consistent quality wise, and seem to ride and handle the best.

I have tried some of the newer clinchers and they are pretty good, but I don't think they can match the same ride quality for a given tire width.

jimmuller 08-23-20 04:40 PM

I've been staying out of BF most of the time because I haven't ridden since our tandem spill at beginning of the covid lockdowns. So this note may be off topic. Sorry.

Before I shut down the bikes I was riding Veloflex Criteriums 23mm on my sewup bikes and Veloflex Masters 23mm on my clincher bikes. I've been gluing the sewups with Vittoria mastic from a can I picked up a year or so ago. Before that I used the same glue stuff from tubes, but applying it with a brush from a can is so much easier. When I'm riding I carry a spare tire, sometimes two spares. I put Stan's in all my sewups. As I recall, the supposed instructions imply half a bottle in each tire, refreshed every 6 months. I've had one tire where it would hold air only if I didn't over-pump it. Otherwise it has worked well. Even then it would hold enough air to let me ride. I've patched a few but most of the time when I have too many punctures to trust the tire I hold into it until I have several needing fixin', then send them to TireAlert.

FWIW, I was commuting by bike most days, 35 miles round trip. It added up to about 8000 miles a year.. I had no qualms about commuting on sewups. In the event of a flat they are faster to swap out than patching or replacing a clincher tube. Though with a clincher and a patch kit you can fix a tires as many times as you have patches, if you can find the hole on the side of a noisy road.

Wildwood 08-23-20 09:15 PM

@jimmuller -
on the Stan's - I use much less than recommended in new tires.
but on old tires i acquire in 'NOS' condition = a bunch. Repeat is always possiblei want to try the high end Vittoria tubulars.
(edit: I like Conti Giro + Sprinter, i should try the 5000)
just need to pull some 'old but usable' tires to make room for better ones.
or buy more compatible tubular wheelsets?!?


And I forgot to mention I have Spesh Turbos from ~4yrs ago in the only size then, 24mm = GREAT tire, shortest life on outer rubber layer. It was sold as a race tire so not upset.

Who is going to try the Wolfpack tire?
supposedly very, very cut resistant without a heavy hard compound!

79pmooney 08-23-20 09:30 PM


Originally Posted by candango (Post 21654205)
More than 20 years ago, I used a contact cement (came in a small tube which carried in my small repair kit), to adhere tubular tires to the rim when repairing them and mounting them. The cement had the advantage of remaining slightly tacky, so that if you had a flat during a ride, you could remove the tire from the rim using only your hands. And there was sufficient cement still on the rim so that you could stretch and mount a spare and inflate it and happily ride off. It was great for commuting and general touring. Alas, it appears to be no longer available in this country. The glues and cements available these days tend to turn rock hard, preventing the easy removal of the flatted tire from the rim. I realize this is to prevent the tire rolling off the rim, but it really hinders the ability to change the tire in the field. So what are you all using these days to glue the tires on? Is anyone using a cement which remains tacky?

Additionally, what are people using to adhere the base tape to the tire after making a repair? Some of the literature favors liquid latex and some sources recommend the orange sealant used to seal leaks in tubeless tires. I tried it and found it did not work at all, it was more water and too little latex. Some people suggested Barge contact cement, used by shoemakers. What do you all use? Thanks

For glue that does not set up hard, getting tires off isn't ridiculous and dry mounted spares are safe to ride (keeping cornering within reason).Tubast. Velox stil lists it on its website and I've seen recent postings of people using it. I haven't ridden tubulars in 20 years but am going back as soon as my rims wear out and I'll go back to the Tubasti I used for 16 years, Most of those years I did not own clinchers. The first 9, I did not own a car. (And yeah, I loved the 5 minute tire change - in the rain, in the snow, inebriated, in bad neighborhoods .... Bad neighborhoods - faster; I didn't need to get the tire on straight to ride it!)

WGB 08-26-20 08:59 AM

Brand new set of Gatorskins. Glued two nights ago. Test drive yesterday. Forget JRA, these are JFA for just floating along.

Up today early to beat heat. 35km along and rough paving. Realize front wheel is in grove in paving. Little unsure what happened next but I braked hard and locked up, just not a full stop. Grove narrows and tire catches. Tire pulled off rim. Unsure if I go fully over bars or just up and sideways. Laying on side of road thinking "Guess I needed more glue". Good hard hit, trashed helmet. Tire put back on rim but doesn't hold air.

Walked two miles and got a ride. Expensive day. Helmet gone, Brooks seat has side seriously chewed up. Now tire. Did water test and air escaping beside valve (on either side).

Q: Can the area around a valve be patched in any way??


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b1aa62b311.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0ffd5befdc.jpg

Sorry if post doesn't make sense, kind of punch drunk

obrentharris 08-26-20 09:54 AM


Originally Posted by WGB (Post 21661844)
Brand new set of Gatorskins. Did water test and air escaping beside valve (on either side).

Q: Can the area around a valve be patched in any way??


My consolations for your bad day!
Air will often come out around the valve even if the hole is elsewhere, path of least resistance. Although a tire that pulls off the rim while riding can cause the tube to rip at the base of the valve. Tube replacement is usually called for at that point; a slow and tedious job. At that point I would send it to Tire Alert for re-tubing.
Brent

seedsbelize 08-26-20 11:39 AM

Consolations from here as well. Last time I broke a helmet, I came home talking gibberish. At which point my wife got me to the doctor.

79pmooney 08-26-20 01:24 PM

Longitudinal grooves - the bad guys! I did the same thing starting up a small bridge. Shade from the sidewalk raining hid the crack. My Peter Mooney was 2 years old. Not much happened, I got tossed but wasn't going fast enough for real damage, wheel and tire were OK. I may have tweaked DT and TT very slightly and taken a mm or two out of the wheelbase. I don't remember the tires but probably training level Vittoria sewups.

I am a fan of enough glue and ribbed tread tires. I used to train on ribbed tread Vittorias 40+ years ago, Completely took them for granted - until rib tread disappeared, 3 years ago I started riding the Vittoria G+ tires. That wonderful tread! Got reminded, it is the best for climbing out of ruts and back onto pavement. (Three months on those tires and I was on a two lane open rural road, Line of cars coming toward me, Last car, a hot Camaro type, pulls out to pass. At the moment he passes, the pavement widened for a dirt farm lane so I could move over two feet. Car goes by. "Whew!" Then "Oh s***! the ditch!" Cut back toward the road hard because I had no choice. On a pile of gravel. Tires made the cut like it was easy.

Those tires are the other end of the spectrum from Gatoskins. Expensive, grippy, good rolling resistance, no armor. Decent on flats because they don't pick up a lot of glass, but not Continentals by a long shot. I ride them (only clincher so far but I will make the sewup switch as soon as my rims wear out) for their ability to keep me out of crashes. My body has seen so many that I'll happily patch 50 tires to save myself one more crash.

Ben

gaucho777 08-26-20 02:17 PM

@WGB Sorry about the spill. Hope you heal well. Fixing a leak at the stem can be very tricky. I've tried several times and am usually not successful. Some old patch kits used to come with replacement valves all the way down to the base with a small circle of rubber (about the size of a nickel). You could cut out the valve and re-glue the replacement valve on top of where the original was. It can get lumpy because of the thickness of the extra rubber. It's possible to use another old tire's valve as a donor. I have a high level of frugality and sometimes spare time on my hands, so tubular repair is something I'm willing to do. As @obrentharris notes, air often comes out near the valve even if that's not where the hole is, so make sure before you co through that trouble.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...084db7b5_k.jpg

WGB 08-26-20 03:09 PM

obrentharris seedsbelize gaucho777

Thank you all.

I ignored good advise to get checked out at Emerg and went home where I posted then promptly fell asleep. Got up and now can hardly walk. Headaches gone so assume it was just shock.

First should say I'm touched by how people will stop to help complete strangers. Lady gave me (a complete stranger) a ride of about 20 miles (would have to get the bike later) then another person is bringing the bike to my house! Does make you feel at least hopeful about people.

Obrentharris advised to send to Tire Alert. I'd never even heard of them so good to know. I emailed asking for a quote. The valve is loose enough in the tube to turn part way, each way. I used a CO2 pump on the side of the road and filled the tire and could see gas coming back out so assumed it was a bad valve. At home I tried the floor pump and tire kept going flat. This was while still mounted. I put that tire in water and pumped. Air rapidly exiting the tire at the base of the valve. While tire in rim it was exiting slower, probably due to compression.

Gaucho777 suggested repairing and if quote too high might go that route

Problem is that in Canada tires, especially Tubular tires, are very expensive and if I buy the three for $50 deal from Yellow Jersey shipping is another $35 so for that money I might as well buy quality which means $100+ a tire. Might post on the for sale thread and see if someone has some they no longer want. Not to mention a new helmet and a new Brooks. #%(@#$!!!!!!!


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