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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

Ged117 07-06-23 01:07 PM


Originally Posted by 1989Pre (Post 22945692)
Nice-looking Triumph. Wasn't the Wasp Sun's top-of-the-line racer?

Thanks - I think there might've been one more above it. In any case, its DB531 tubing, and the frame and fork weigh just under 7 pounds. With the Sturmey hubs + new 32/40 Kinlin rim wheel build, it delivers a really nice ride. I'm waiting for the Continental GP5000 tires to wear out (they're great), but I want something a little more visually C&V - maybe Rene Herse if they make a 32mm tire, that's the max that will fit with fenders.

Nothing like listening to the FM tick along during a night ride while the 77 year old dynohub powers modern LED lamps.

Salubrious 07-06-23 01:22 PM


Originally Posted by Ged117 (Post 22945746)
Thanks - I think there might've been one more above it. In any case, its DB531 tubing, and the frame and fork weigh just under 7 pounds. With the Sturmey hubs + new 32/40 Kinlin rim wheel build, it delivers a really nice ride. I'm waiting for the Continental GP5000 tires to wear out (they're great), but I want something a little more visually C&V - maybe Rene Herse if they make a 32mm tire, that's the max that will fit with fenders.

Nothing like listening to the FM tick along during a night ride while the 77 year old dynohub powers modern LED lamps.

4-speeds have a nice sound to them...

FWIW department: I've seen a few Continentals separate between the sidewall and the bead. This happened to me on the Lake Pepin 3-speed Tour just last May; the inner tube forced its way through the opening and started rubbing on the frame. I realized what was happening but literally couldn't stop fast enough to possibly prevent it so the inner tube popped. I've seen this happen to other riders- one was on the Tour Divide; he was in the middle of nowhere north of Elkford in BC and desperately trying to sew the sidewall back together to get the liquid sealant to seal it off (it was a tubeless tire). Didn't work- he got a few miles more but the separation continued around the tire. He was able to flag someone down and get a ride to Fernie, get a new tire, then got a ride back up north. This cost him a day in the race. I'm swearing them off.

Also FWIW dept.: Alloy FMs have a disconcerting way of forcing internal bits through the hub body- usually near the spoke flange. I also experienced this first hand on my Claud Butler and found out I was not the only one from Mark Stonich of bikesmithdesign.com who has a lot of experience with SA hubs. He gifted me with a replacement alloy shell but admonished me to never actually use it with an FM.

gna 07-06-23 01:24 PM


Originally Posted by Sedgemop (Post 22945640)
This has been posted already, but is now down to $80. Somebody get it.

Facebook MN Tourist

Raleigh DL-1 Tourist three-speed bicycle $80 Hopkins, MN

This 1972 Raleigh DL-1 Tourist is complete with a Brooks leather saddle and the original frame pump. 23” frame, 28” tires

https://scontent-ord5-1.xx.fbcdn.net...nw&oe=64AC2E69

Might be worth it just for the Brooks saddle and the pump.

Salubrious 07-06-23 01:31 PM

Yes- finding a B-72 in good shape is a challenge. I've not seen one that cheap so its a deal.

Sedgemop 07-06-23 01:35 PM


Originally Posted by gna (Post 22945763)
Might be worth it just for the Brooks saddle and the pump.

Exactly.

Ged117 07-06-23 02:07 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 22945762)
4-speeds have a nice sound to them...

FWIW department: I've seen a few Continentals separate between the sidewall and the bead. This happened to me on the Lake Pepin 3-speed Tour just last May; the inner tube forced its way through the opening and started rubbing on the frame. I realized what was happening but literally couldn't stop fast enough to possibly prevent it so the inner tube popped. I've seen this happen to other riders- one was on the Tour Divide; he was in the middle of nowhere north of Elkford in BC and desperately trying to sew the sidewall back together to get the liquid sealant to seal it off (it was a tubeless tire). Didn't work- he got a few miles more but the separation continued around the tire. He was able to flag someone down and get a ride to Fernie, get a new tire, then got a ride back up north. This cost him a day in the race. I'm swearing them off.

Also FWIW dept.: Alloy FMs have a disconcerting way of forcing internal bits through the hub body- usually near the spoke flange. I also experienced this first hand on my Claud Butler and found out I was not the only one from Mark Stonich of bikesmithdesign.com who has a lot of experience with SA hubs. He gifted me with a replacement alloy shell but admonished me to never actually use it with an FM.

I've had a great experience so far with the GP5000 tires, I have a set on the Wasp and a set of the gum wall GP5000s on my Raleigh Competition, that said I had a poor experience with their more commuter oriented tires. I'll keep an eye on them.

uklightweights and cyclinguk forums have a bunch of members that wrote extensive posts on SA hubs, and the alloy FM in particular, so I'm aware of that problem. The one I have was rebuilt by Hilary Stone, so perhaps he made improvements, hard to know. I'm not going to subject it to heavy duty use, given its age and rarity, and my light load weekend tours are in pleasant rolling countryside. I have an AW I rebuilt on the Triumph and I am happy to treat that one to the daily grind, given how many replacements parts exist and the AW's toughness. At some point I realized that 72 year old rare hubs aren't your average Shimano SIS derailleur so I treat it accordingly. That reminds me it needs a drop or two of oil.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4a7bcae838.jpg

1989Pre 07-06-23 02:33 PM


Originally Posted by Ged117 (Post 22945746)
Thanks - I think there might've been one more above it. In any case, its DB531 tubing, and the frame and fork weigh just under 7 pounds. With the Sturmey hubs + new 32/40 Kinlin rim wheel build, it delivers a really nice ride. I'm waiting for the Continental GP5000 tires to wear out (they're great), but I want something a little more visually C&V - maybe Rene Herse if they make a 32mm tire, that's the max that will fit with fenders.

Nothing like listening to the FM tick along during a night ride while the 77 year old dynohub powers modern LED lamps.

Back then, many builders had more than one top model, such as Armstrong, with their Moth, Peerless and Continental models.
I didn't know Kinlin did 40H. I think British racers of the late-40's and early 50's are even more impressive with an FW than with the period Cyclo. Are you saying you are searching for 32mm gumwall tires? I can't think of any off the top of my head, but Hutchinson is making a nice 25mm, if your rims are 700c.

SirMike1983 07-07-23 08:54 AM

Another ride last night, this time on a 1941 Schwinn New World. The last two evenings have been like riding in Virginia again - plenty of heat and humidity. I don't mind it, to be honest. We've had so much rotten weather this summer (chilly and rainy for awhile, then wildfire smoke) that hot and humid doesn't seem so awful.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...03091fe8c1.jpg

ascherer 07-07-23 11:56 AM

The $10 Ladies Sports arrived. The hub is marked 64 but the down tube and seat tube decals place it in 65.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...fea20e775.jpeg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3f4045525.jpeg

If you noticed the unusual pulley placement on the down tube, hereís a clue - and it actually works! (after a WD40 soak) I wonder if it was swapped in from a Shopper or similar model by a ďhelpfulĒ shopkeeper BITD? Itíll probably get replaced with a proper trigger eventually if not sooner.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ee4b50309.jpeg

Iím glad it has standard brakes. I had a 66 with the soldered cable ends. Petrified John Bull pads, and the rear shoes have a section that bends out 90 degrees at the forward end of the shoe that I havenít seen before.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f679f90ae.jpeg

I donít recognize these pedals - one dust cap is missing and I havenít noticed an obvious brand yet. Any insights?
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c7e6e6917.jpeg

The NDS crank has about 5 degrees of free play. I have some fresh cotter pins, and I hope the axle isnít damaged.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3f59efa51.jpeg

I still intend to keep this as a guest bike. And if youíve been wondering what to do with that blue chain guard thatís been rattling around your bins, hook me up!

ThermionicScott 07-07-23 10:17 PM


Originally Posted by ascherer (Post 22946714)
The $10 Ladies Sports arrived. The hub is marked 64 but the down tube and seat tube decals place it in 65.

I’m glad it has standard brakes. I had a 66 with the soldered cable ends. Petrified John Bull pads, and the rear shoes have a section that bends out 90 degrees at the forward end of the shoe that I haven’t seen before.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f679f90ae.jpeg

My 1964 Armstrong has brake shoe holders like that. With how much play there is in the calipers, the tabs really help the brake pads to hold their position and do their job, rather than to keep going through the seat stays and eventually rub the tires. :)

thumpism 07-08-23 05:19 PM

Driving home in the pre-rain today I spotted an interesting van at a local junk shop and after looking at it I saw this old Triumph leaning against the wall. It's a 26" wheel with rod brakes and an AW hub dated 48 3. Very faded price tag looked like $55 and this bike is much too rusty to be worth much of anything, but when has that stopped us? I'm not interested in this thing but can pursue it if someone else is.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ee92383570.jpg

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f9cbd851b8.jpg

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...787e8658e5.jpg

cudak888 07-09-23 10:52 AM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 22947762)
Driving home in the pre-rain today I spotted an interesting van at a local junk shop and after looking at it I saw this old Triumph leaning against the wall. It's a 26" wheel with rod brakes and an AW hub dated 48 3. Very faded price tag looked like $55 and this bike is much too rusty to be worth much of anything, but when has that stopped us? I'm not interested in this thing but can pursue it if someone else is.

Bent fork, amongst everything else. The only bright future it'll have is if Tom Cruise rides it off a cliff.

I know I often take on the worst of the worse, but someone would have to pay me $55 to haul that AW hub and mattress saddle away.

-Kurt

52telecaster 07-09-23 10:58 AM


Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver (Post 22945490)
Just popping in... nice to see this thread still has some legs.

Hope everyone is well.

You're one of the main reasons I joined bike forums. Thanks man!

Sedgemop 07-09-23 11:38 AM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 22946515)
Another ride last night, this time on a 1941 Schwinn New World. The last two evenings have been like riding in Virginia again - plenty of heat and humidity. I don't mind it, to be honest. We've had so much rotten weather this summer (chilly and rainy for awhile, then wildfire smoke) that hot and humid doesn't seem so awful.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...03091fe8c1.jpg

I see a fair number of these over here in Schwinn Land. I've never seen one look this good, though. Congrats on such a great collection.

ascherer 07-09-23 06:08 PM


Originally Posted by ascherer
The NDS crank has about 5 degrees of free play. I have some fresh cotter pins, and I hope the axle isnít damaged.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3f59efa51.jpeg

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d3ec6f4c3.jpeg
The cotter came out with minimal fuss. I dosed it with with penetrating oil and got it moving with a c-clamp. A few judicious whacks with a 5-pound hammer and it obliged. Looks like the cotter was intentionally filed, I canít imagine why but the spindle looks sound. So I will move on to an overhaul while I consider whether I want to upgrade brakes, rims, etc.

SirMike1983 07-09-23 08:40 PM

Thanks - appreciate the kind words. I'm fond of these simple, old Schwinn bikes. My collection is probably 50/50 old Schwinns and old Raleighs. I can't really pick one or the other.

Unca_Sam 07-10-23 08:57 AM


Originally Posted by ascherer (Post 22948541)
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d3ec6f4c3.jpeg
The cotter came out with minimal fuss. I dosed it with with penetrating oil and got it moving with a c-clamp. A few judicious whacks with a 5-pound hammer and it obliged. Looks like the cotter was intentionally filed, I canít imagine why but the spindle looks sound. So I will move on to an overhaul while I consider whether I want to upgrade brakes, rims, etc.

Where are you sourcing cotter pins? I know there's cheaper, cheese-metal ones out there, but I didn't enjoy filing the two pins I bought to replace a set where the retaining nut threads mushroomed.

Salubrious 07-10-23 09:44 AM


Originally Posted by Unca_Sam (Post 22949004)
Where are you sourcing cotter pins? I know there's cheaper, cheese-metal ones out there, but I didn't enjoy filing the two pins I bought to replace a set where the retaining nut threads mushroomed.

You can avoid mushrooming the cotter pins (which are meant to be reusable) by using a cotter press. Park Tools made one years ago, they can be fabricated from the right size C clamp or you can get a nice one from Bikesmithdesign.com He's also a good source for cotter pins.

markk900 07-10-23 10:49 AM


Originally Posted by Unca_Sam (Post 22949004)
Where are you sourcing cotter pins? I know there's cheaper, cheese-metal ones out there, but I didn't enjoy filing the two pins I bought to replace a set where the retaining nut threads mushroomed.

Bikesmith (Mike) supplies high quality ALGI cotter pins, which if he is out you can also get on Amazon. I got some of the same pins from my LBS who happens to be vintage friendly.

You likely *will* have to file regardless.

Pinehurst 07-11-23 05:19 PM

My first two-wheeled bike was a Raleigh 3-speed :)

1989Pre 07-12-23 05:11 PM


Originally Posted by markk900 (Post 22949138)
Bikesmith (Mike) supplies high quality ALGI cotter pins, which if he is out you can also get on Amazon. I got some of the same pins from my LBS who happens to be vintage friendly.

You likely *will* have to file regardless.

Thanks, I didn't know Bikesmith had them. I need the drive-side pin for my Elswick ladies Sports Light Roadster.

clubman 07-12-23 05:59 PM


Originally Posted by Unca_Sam (Post 22949004)
Where are you sourcing cotter pins? I know there's cheaper, cheese-metal ones out there, but I didn't enjoy filing the two pins I bought to replace a set where the retaining nut threads mushroomed.

It's rare to get pins that don't need filing. It's part of the reason 'they' started to make them soft. Shop rats can press or hammer them until they squish enough to hold, for a while.
I bought a jar of maybe 4 dozen cotters from an old shop and there are several different lengths, bevels and threads even though they're all English size. Variable hardnesses as well. It's always a crap shoot installing them.
I have a few old, hard sets for my bikes. They can usually be reinstalled if done right the first time.

The OP's pins are cut all the way to the end, which is a design flaw to me. Like flutes on a seatpost, moisture gets in and slowly causes them to loosen up and require tightening or hammering. That could be what happened to these.


Originally Posted by 1989Pre (Post 22951461)
Thanks, I didn't know Bikesmith had them. I need the drive-side pin for my Elswick ladies Sports Light Roadster.

Maybe do both sides or the crank orientation could and likely would be slightly off and drive you crazy. :twitchy:

1989Pre 07-13-23 05:36 AM

Maybe do both sides or the crank orientation could and likely would be slightly off and drive you crazy. :twitchy:[/QUOTE]

Thanks for that. It's probably a good call.

ascherer 07-13-23 09:01 AM


Originally Posted by Unca_Sam (Post 22949004)
Where are you sourcing cotter pins? I know there's cheaper, cheese-metal ones out there, but I didn't enjoy filing the two pins I bought to replace a set where the retaining nut threads mushroomed.

All I have on hand are the cheesy ones. And a bench grinder ;-)

Salubrious 07-13-23 10:46 AM

FWIW Mark of Bikesmithdesign developed a little jig so both cotter pins can be precision ground the same way.


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