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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

johnnyspaghetti 04-04-18 10:28 AM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20263518)
Only one?

You shall know I rode one of these 23"step thru for severel weeks and it was bliss me and the dog. And I am 6'3I do have cool bikes that won't ever fit. I paid more for this seat than I do for complete bikes.I dont know if its worth fifty. I could be lying no

https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&i...1&disp=safe&zw

Salubrious 04-04-18 10:42 AM


Originally Posted by Chaser95 (Post 20262725)
This three speed thing is getting busy around here. I am picking up this green sports tomorrow. Seller said it was a decoration in his home. Anyone know what year they started using this chain ring?


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20262980)
Let us know the hub date after you have her home, but I'll bet @Mooo is spot on with mid 1972.

The 6-point crank was introduced in 1972 but the 9 point crank continued to show up into early 1973.

Velocivixen 04-04-18 10:50 AM

Question: when you have a vintage 3 speed of no particular fame or value, how do you decide what to do with it?
I bought a Raleigh Twenty (coffee colored), all original & never serviced. As some may know these little bikes are a great starting point for all sorts of modifications.

It’s my 4th one. One got powder coated and @gugie moved the brake mounts, and I built 451 wheels. Second one is pristine all original & fully overhauled. Third I used Rhyno Lite 406 rims with SA drum brake front & 2-speed kick back w/coaster in back. Also fully overhauled.

I’m sort of thinking to just do a basic overhaul, new grease, bearings, cables, brake pads and see if I get inspired. I’ve got a set of Sun CR18 451 rims that are new I could build up.......

MeadMan2 04-04-18 10:56 AM

Pigseye was the original unofficial name for St Paul. Pigseye was a Frenchman who sold booze out of a cave at the present site of St Paul & had a bad eye, hence the name. A Catholic priest started a parish there which he named St. Paul's. The early settlers thought that Pigseye was not a very appealing name for their new village & so adopted St. Paul as the official name. A number of years ago there was a beer named Pigseye but the company that produced it has since gone out of business.

dweenk 04-04-18 11:04 AM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20263527)
To illustrate market differences: early 60s men's Rudge, good shape for an old bike but hardly cherry, going off hereabouts for $150. And I'm considering it.

My market is slower and lower than yours; but if I had room for another I would buy the Rudge. The qualifier would be that it was original with the Red Hand of Ulster headbadge and chainwheel.

johnnyspaghetti 04-04-18 11:06 AM

We had 9 inches of heavy snow I'shut up

johnnyspaghetti 04-04-18 11:08 AM


Originally Posted by MeadMan2 (Post 20264061)
Pigseye was the original unofficial name for St Paul. Pigseye was a Frenchman who sold booze out of a cave at the present site of St Paul & had a bad eye, hence the name. A Catholic priest started a parish there which he named St. Paul's. The early settlers thought that Pigseye was not a very appealing name for their new village & so adopted St. Paul as the official name. A number of years ago there was a beer named Pigseye but the company that produced it has since gone out of business.

Thank you There are caves

dweenk 04-04-18 11:19 AM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 20264045)
Question: when you have a vintage 3 speed of no particular fame or value, how do you decide what to do with it?
I bought a Raleigh Twenty (coffee colored), all original & never serviced. As some may know these little bikes are a great starting point for all sorts of modifications.

Itís my 4th one. One got powder coated and @gugie moved the brake mounts, and I built 451 wheels. Second one is pristine all original & fully overhauled. Third I used Rhyno Lite 406 rims with SA drum brake front & 2-speed kick back w/coaster in back. Also fully overhauled.

Iím sort of thinking to just do a basic overhaul, new grease, bearings, cables, brake pads and see if I get inspired. Iíve got a set of Sun CR18 451 rims that are new I could build up.......

That's more than one question, so I'll give my answer to the first.

I have bought a few old 3 speeds that I didn't want or need; but I just wanted to save them. Some of them were sold, some given to friends, some in limbo in the garage, and some donated.

I will definitely keep 4 Raleighs, but I have 1 Raleigh and one Sears/Steyr that will go.

johnnyspaghetti 04-04-18 11:21 AM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20263527)
To illustrate market differences: early 60s men's Rudge, good shape for an old bike but hardly cherry, going off hereabouts for $150. And I'm considering it.

Get what you can when you can. I already have too many. they are out there.

johnnyspaghetti 04-04-18 11:28 AM


Originally Posted by dweenk (Post 20264127)
That's more than one question, so I'll give my answer to the first.

I have bought a few old 3 speeds that I didn't want or need; but I just wanted to save them. Some of them were sold, some given to friends, some in limbo in the garage, and some donated.

I will definitely keep 4 Raleighs, but I have 1 Raleigh and one Sears/Steyr that will go.

I should seriously consider the 4 Raleigh option. I have bikes that will never fit, but nice.

Velocivixen 04-04-18 11:36 AM

@dweenk, thanks. I was mostly rambling out loud about what to do.

browngw 04-04-18 11:41 AM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 20264045)
Question: when you have a vintage 3 speed of no particular fame or value, how do you decide what to do with it?
I bought a Raleigh Twenty (coffee colored), all original & never serviced. As some may know these little bikes are a great starting point for all sorts of modifications.

Itís my 4th one. One got powder coated and @gugie moved the brake mounts, and I built 451 wheels. Second one is pristine all original & fully overhauled. Third I used Rhyno Lite 406 rims with SA drum brake front & 2-speed kick back w/coaster in back. Also fully overhauled.

Iím sort of thinking to just do a basic overhaul, new grease, bearings, cables, brake pads and see if I get inspired. Iíve got a set of Sun CR18 451 rims that are new I could build up.......


Doing the lube, fix-up and complete detailing is a great idea in any case. If you become attached to the bike, fine. If you don't, it will be ready for sale and a new home. I'm currently doing the same with a 1971 Holdsworth road bike. I seem to have a habit of refurbish, keep for a year or two and sell. Of course a few special bikes are "keepers".

johnnyspaghetti 04-04-18 11:42 AM

We are all Catholic And may or not be drunk.

noglider 04-04-18 11:44 AM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20263527)
To illustrate market differences: early 60s men's Rudge, good shape for an old bike but hardly cherry, going off hereabouts for $150. And I'm considering it.

I usually see them for a lot more than that here in NYC. Where do you see them so cheap?

My three-speed is a 1962 Rudge which, unfortunately, doesn't have the chainring with the hand logo. Other than that, I love it.

noglider 04-04-18 11:46 AM

@Velocivixen, are you saying you have a solution and are looking for its corresponding problem?

dweenk 04-04-18 12:27 PM


Originally Posted by johnnyspaghetti (Post 20264187)
We are all Catholic And may or not be drunk.

Aye laddie, and we all have cleats of clay.

BigChief 04-04-18 12:28 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 20264045)
Question: when you have a vintage 3 speed of no particular fame or value, how do you decide what to do with it?
I bought a Raleigh Twenty (coffee colored), all original & never serviced. As some may know these little bikes are a great starting point for all sorts of modifications.

It’s my 4th one. One got powder coated and @gugie moved the brake mounts, and I built 451 wheels. Second one is pristine all original & fully overhauled. Third I used Rhyno Lite 406 rims with SA drum brake front & 2-speed kick back w/coaster in back. Also fully overhauled.

I’m sort of thinking to just do a basic overhaul, new grease, bearings, cables, brake pads and see if I get inspired. I’ve got a set of Sun CR18 451 rims that are new I could build up.......

For myself, I like having 3 or 4 different bikes that I rotate for my daily rides. It makes cycling more fun for me to change bikes from time to time. And then, I love having a project going on in my workshop. I have fun solving all the problems and puzzles that come along. I especially enjoy rescue projects where a useless bike gets put back on the road again. This leaves me with the only part of the hobby I don't enjoy. Moving them along. It's a pest that I tend to ignore until REALLY have to make more room. So, bikes come and go, but I do have a few keepers.
You did a great job on that green 20. I have fun seeing other people's projects too and that was a good one.

johnnyspaghetti 04-04-18 01:15 PM

Mary may have too many hydro codones Yes or no could be lying yes no So for 28 inch wheels does 40- 635 work

browngw 04-04-18 01:48 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by johnnyspaghetti (Post 20264467)
Mary may have too many hydro codones Yes or no could be lying yes no So for 28 inch wheels does 40- 635 work


These Schwalbe Marathons on my DL1 are 40-635 among other numbers. After a few flats on the NOS Dura's; I put these on. They almost are too wide for the brake stirrup.

paulb_in_bkln 04-04-18 02:40 PM


Originally Posted by johnnyspaghetti (Post 20264187)
We are all Catholic And may or not be drunk.

Can being inebriated be my religion? Answering my own question: Yes.

paulb_in_bkln 04-04-18 02:55 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 20264045)
Question: when you have a vintage 3 speed of no particular fame or value, how do you decide what to do with it?

I think like classic cars unless it's one-of-a-kind with historic significance then it's what's on your mind and what's in your wallet. The way I'm thinking about my would-like-it-to-happen-someday scorcher, anyway. But you figured that out, it looks like.

Velocivixen 04-04-18 03:29 PM

I think I’ll just start out as a normal overhaul. Not too much pressure.......

MY issue is that I’ve built wheels for many of my vintage bikes and there’s NO WAY I can recoup what I’ve put into it. So then I feel obliged to keep the bikes.....

I’ll take some photos and post as a starting point. I adore all the bikes and various projects posted in this thread! Thanks.

Chaser95 04-04-18 04:03 PM


Originally Posted by Mooo (Post 20262835)
I believe it's mid '72. I *think* I've seen a 73 model with the old style crank, but maybe not.

Just got home with the aforementioned green sports. I feel like the dumbest guy on the planet. I drove a sedan with plans of removing the front wheel and putting the bike behind the front seats. I realize I am not the smartest guy around but, I thought I knew how to remove the front wheel on a bike. I loosened the nuts, spread the brake and pulled. Nothing doing! Pulled again, nothing. Tapped with a hammer, nothing. So as I was standing in the parking lot of a convenience store in 15-20 mph COLD wind I decided to remove the fork. It needed headset bearings anyway! Can someone tell me what to do with this wheel to get it out of the fork? I have so much to learn!:foo:

Back to the date.......the hub looks like January 72. Mooo you are the MAN!

Mooo 04-04-18 04:50 PM


Originally Posted by Chaser95 (Post 20264856)
Just got home with the aforementioned green sports. I feel like the dumbest guy on the planet. I drove a sedan with plans of removing the front wheel and putting the bike behind the front seats. I realize I am not the smartest guy around but, I thought I knew how to remove the front wheel on a bike. I loosened the nuts, spread the brake and pulled. Nothing doing! Pulled again, nothing. Tapped with a hammer, nothing. So as I was standing in the parking lot of a convenience store in 15-20 mph COLD wind I decided to remove the fork. It needed headset bearings anyway! Can someone tell me what to do with this wheel to get it out of the fork? I have so much to learn!:foo:

Back to the date.......the hub looks like January 72. Mooo you are the MAN!

Awesome!

Hey, I'll take luck over skill any day.

For the hub, you need to (gently) spread the forks like 1/16 of an inch. The best explanation comes from Sheldon Brown, whose legacy lives on:
Servicing English Three Speeds

arty dave 04-04-18 05:12 PM

Chaser if you pull the fork blades away from each other the wheel should drop out. Hopefully someone else can explain why better than this - The axle lock nuts are retained in the shape of the dropouts, hope that makes sense.

Velocivixen I think that's when we admit we have an addiction :) - There are bikes I can't sell coz of how much I've spent on their resto/rusto/re-build. Fortunately I've only done that with the keepers, and I'll swap out some parts I want to keep from the ones I want to cull. It's hard to let go but I have a few now that don't get ridden coz they're too small, not as enjoyable etc. But I've kept so far because of their vintage, internal hub gears, pretty lugs, whatever. I'm hoping a serious cull will get a little cash together for another slack framed roadster, like maybe a 22" DL-1

BigChief 04-04-18 05:14 PM


Originally Posted by Chaser95 (Post 20264856)
Just got home with the aforementioned green sports. I feel like the dumbest guy on the planet. I drove a sedan with plans of removing the front wheel and putting the bike behind the front seats. I realize I am not the smartest guy around but, I thought I knew how to remove the front wheel on a bike. I loosened the nuts, spread the brake and pulled. Nothing doing! Pulled again, nothing. Tapped with a hammer, nothing. So as I was standing in the parking lot of a convenience store in 15-20 mph COLD wind I decided to remove the fork. It needed headset bearings anyway! Can someone tell me what to do with this wheel to get it out of the fork? I have so much to learn!:foo:

Back to the date.......the hub looks like January 72. Mooo you are the MAN!

Oh no, not dumb. You've run into a typical too tight of a fork fit. The spacing of the fork dropouts is so tight that it takes two people (or a fork spreader) to remove the front wheel. I've had to correct this on many of my project Raleighs. For now, you might need someone strong to spread the fork legs while you wiggle the axle out of the dropouts. The way I deal with this is to cold set the forks so just a light spreading of the fork will release the wheel. I use a scissor jack to carefully spread the fork (little bits at a time) until the dropouts just barely press against the cones. I don't want to have to spread them more than, say, 1/32" until they clear the cones.
Important note...These front wheels don't have lock nuts over the cones. So you must always mount the wheel with the adjustable cone on the left side of the bike.

desconhecido 04-04-18 05:55 PM

I've told the story about my $30 Raleigh Sports before, and many here share the general experience:

Bike cost $30 (1979 root beer brown) and had a trashy Brooks vinyl saddle. So, in addition to tires and tubes, a decent saddle was in order -- not going to ride a bike with a bad and pain inducing saddle and I wanted to ride this bike. Brooks B17 for about $100. Original rims were rusty and the spoke nipples were frozen and trying to true everything was a pain and then when you get finished with all that effort you've still got rusted steel rims and discolored galvanized spokes and who wants to spend all that time and effort knowing that the end result, although functionally adequate, will not be aesthetically pleasing? Add a couple CR18 rims and 72 spokes and there's about another $100. Add a couple Schwalbe Marathon Supreme tires (can't put $10 Kenda tires on those beautiful rims, can I?) a couple 650B tubes and some Presta Savers (Save the Prestas!), a bunch of loose balls, a couple cotters, brake pads, and a bunch of other stuff and that $30 costs at least $300, and probably upwards of $350. Of course, I wanted to ride at night so I bought a Shimano Dyno-hub and a B&M headlight to go with it and built another wheel. That resulted in having a perfectly good 650A front wheel that wasn't being used so I had to track down another Raleigh to put that wheel on.

So, yes, these bikes are not money making propositions and it is akin to an addiction. But, it's cheaper than drugs and chances are I won't get arrested. Not for speeding, anyway.

desconhecido 04-04-18 06:02 PM

The Raleigh Sports bikes had an early type of wheel retention (at least the ones I've owned). The axles are 5/16" (about 8mm) and the slot at the bottom is large enough to pass the axle, but the round part of the front dropouts is a bit larger in diameter and there is a shouldered washer at each end of the axle which increases the effective diameter of the axle slightly. The shoulder of the washer fits nicely into the round part of the dropout, but is too large to pass through the bottom slot and thus release the wheel. In order to remove the front wheel, loosen the axle nuts quite a bit and then pull out on the forks so that the shoulders clear the inside of the dropout on each side. Wheel falls out.

I've never seen a bike other than a Sports (or related, such as the Superbe) with this sort of arrangement. Like many, many things, once you know the secret, it's easy and obvious. Until then, not so much.

paulb_in_bkln 04-04-18 08:07 PM


Originally Posted by desconhecido (Post 20265082)
So, yes, these bikes are not money making propositions and it is akin to an addiction. But, it's cheaper than drugs and chances are I won't get arrested. Not for speeding, anyway.

Hobbies are not for income, although sometimes that occurs. "Detectorists" on Netflix. Cannot recommend that highly enough.

Chaser95 04-04-18 10:08 PM

Thanks guys for the lesson in forks! Now that you have mentioned it I think I read that somewhere before and it did not stay with me. However, today it became a practical lesson and I shan't forget again! I will commandeer the bearings I had for the Western Flyer and try to get this ready for a test ride tomorrow. There is no way I could do this without the support I receive on this thread. You guys are the greatest!


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