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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

paulb_in_bkln 04-14-18 09:18 PM


Originally Posted by johnnyspaghetti (Post 20284447)
winter is hitting hard Pigseye

It seems to be going on forever here, too.

paulb_in_bkln 04-14-18 09:58 PM


Originally Posted by oldveloman (Post 20284113)
Today, I had a closer look and started to clean it up a bit.

Fantastic. And a kickstand plate instead of the little tube between the chainstays. So useful.

oldveloman 04-15-18 03:43 AM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20284319)
This bike should clean up nicely. Love the color. I have a question. All light roadster frames had a round lug brazed into the drive side chainstay for mounting an enclosed chaincase. They did away with these in the early 60s. How were the chaincases mounted on these later frames? Does it have anything to do with that stamped piece the kickstand is mounted on? That piece is something I haven't seen before. There used to be a tube there.

Hi BigChief,
The brazed-on lug is there and I do like the stamped plate the kickstand is mounted on too. Far better than the aluminum clamped- on stands.

BTW, I didn' t find any frame number on the bike. Rear wheel has a 3-speed Sturmey from 1980 that I think is the original one...

Peter

Cute Boy Horse 04-15-18 04:41 AM


Originally Posted by oldveloman (Post 20284113)
Hi all,

A few days ago, a friend of mine dumped the “wreck" of “an old Raleigh" at my door.
He was on his way to the local recycling centre, but wondered if - maybe - I could use it, as I own a few post- Raleigh takeover Triumph bicycles.
Of course I could :)
The “old Raleigh" turns out to be a 1980 Superbe in pretty good condition, though it has been in the open air for quite some time.
Today, I had a closer look and started to clean it up a bit.
I plan to use it as my daily ride instead of my - 3 speed - 1954 BSA Tourer.

Digging in my boxes of Raleigh stuff, I found some better brake calipers and other usable parts to make it a reliable bike...
Rear ( stainless steel ) rim was dented, but I managed to straighten that out and the wheel turns smoothly now.

Peter

Ah, so this is what the Belgians were getting at that time? Interesting. It's still got the steel cottered cranks and the 60s/70s lugs, but then it's got a mudguard mounted taillight and a rack, which we didn't see in the UK until the mid 80s when they did the big cost reduction and made it share parts with the modern bikes.

Then there's the Dutch market machines, that are similar again but only came with drum brakes.

What really bugs me is that in the UK from the early 70s onwards they only advertised the one model of Superbe, what used to be called the dawn tourist, rod brakes and mattress saddle. Yet every now and again ones like yours pop up with caliper brakes and adjustable handlebars, with no explanation. I've even seen one come up looking like it'd never been ridden, but in black instead of green.

I can't tell if all these unadvertised and undocumented variations were intentional or if they were just throwing together whatever they found on the shelves.

JaccoW 04-15-18 06:10 AM

Just got my hands on an alloy Stumey Archer FM 4-speed hub from 1956 with matching 4-speed shifter. I'll probably have to take it apart and spend some time finding a 40-hole wheel that fits the bike but it looks like I'll be turning my Gazelle Superlicht into a clubman racer. :)

BigChief 04-15-18 06:22 AM


Originally Posted by Cute Boy Horse (Post 20284956)

I can't tell if all these unadvertised and undocumented variations were intentional or if they were just throwing together whatever they found on the shelves.

As far as I know, we didn't get this or the rod brake version in the US. I've only seen this beautiful dark green once before on a heavy 22" roadster SirMike posted recently. Too bad, it's a great color. Wish there were more of them around. It must have been sad days at the Nottingham factory then. It wouldn't surprise me if they did just try to use up old inventory.

Cute Boy Horse 04-15-18 07:46 AM

I don't think this one came from Nottingham, they definitely had factories on the continent. Here in the Netherlands I once saw a rod-operated drum brake Superbe, with a tyre dynamo, metric fittings and a unique handlebar labelled "Raleigh stainless". It appeared to have linked brakes but I only had a couple seconds to glance at it.

I don't think Raleigh ever had a full grip on things themselves, and they definitely don't now, what with all the acquisitions, restructuring etc, a lot has fell between the cracks. Raleigh Denmark has somehow positioned itself as a high end boutique brand selling handbuilt drum braked roadsters, Raleigh America sells a "retro" town bike with disc brakes, and Raleigh Britain is unsuccessfully trying to sell carbon fibre racing thingies to dentists.

There's also the spare parts deparment, which doesn't advertise or carry anything relevant to their current products anywhere in the world, but have still managed to flood ebay with copies of weinmann 730 brakes and 26 x1 3/8 tyres.

What an omnishambles.

Ballenxj 04-15-18 07:50 AM

I don't know if this has already been posted, but I found this article interesting for posting dates made by serial numbers, Raleigh acquisitions, like Sturmey Archer, etc.
I also didn't know they had Triumph and BSA motorcycle's?
https://oldbike.wordpress.com/9-bicy...ry-nottingham/

Cute Boy Horse 04-15-18 07:54 AM

No only Triumph and BSA bikes. Motors split off into another company, as with sunbeam, etc.

Chaser95 04-15-18 09:09 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Spent another day on the road. Six and a half hours and 394 miles later and I am the owner of a Raleigh Twenty. Hub is dated July 68. Cables have been wrapped around the headset so the rear brake and shifter do not work. Cosmetically not too bad. Air in the tires and some oil in the hub and shifter and I was riding.......in low gear with no rear brake. Needs grips, chain guard, cables, oil cap and some 'clean and polish'. I asked about the history and was told, "the kids rode it.....been sitting in the basement for years". Fine with me!

BigChief 04-15-18 09:30 AM


Originally Posted by Cute Boy Horse (Post 20285143)
I don't think this one came from Nottingham, they definitely had factories on the continent. Here in the Netherlands I once saw a rod-operated drum brake Superbe, with a tyre dynamo, metric fittings and a unique handlebar labelled "Raleigh stainless". It appeared to have linked brakes but I only had a couple seconds to glance at it.

I don't think Raleigh ever had a full grip on things themselves, and they definitely don't now, what with all the acquisitions, restructuring etc, a lot has fell between the cracks. Raleigh Denmark has somehow positioned itself as a high end boutique brand selling handbuilt drum braked roadsters, Raleigh America sells a "retro" town bike with disc brakes, and Raleigh Britain is unsuccessfully trying to sell carbon fibre racing thingies to dentists.

There's also the spare parts deparment, which doesn't advertise or carry anything relevant to their current products anywhere in the world, but have still managed to flood ebay with copies of weinmann 730 brakes and 26 x1 3/8 tyres.

What an omnishambles.

Thanks. Mystery solved. It's a Danish Raleigh. Never knew about them. That unusual logo on the downtube is still in use on some of their models today. Must say, they are nice looking bikes. Much better than any of the other "Raleigh" bikes being made today.
https://raleighbikes.dk/

Chaser95 04-15-18 09:40 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Mooo Thanks for the tips on ladies frame sizes. I bought a 74 Phillips for my wife that is just too small. It is a 19. Like you said....its not a happy ride. I am looking at ads on the local sites and trying to get a good feel for the size from poor pictures. It is hard enough to get someone to respond to my request to see or even buy a bike in an ad that THEY PLACED. A measurement would be asking too much!


I recently turned down a great deal on a matched pair of Schwinn 3 speeds because the ladies was a 19. So the hunt is on for a larger bike. As for the 19 Phillips......well I have grand daughters coming along!

paulb_in_bkln 04-15-18 09:43 AM


Originally Posted by Chaser95 (Post 20285301)
Spent another day on the road. Six and a half hours and 394 miles later and I am the owner of a Raleigh Twenty.

Nice. I've noticed more, but still very few, 20-in wheel minibikes here in NYC. Though they're so practical--easy to navigate city streets, easy to carry up and down apt building stairs--I don't know why so few. Very popular in Asia, I've read. Got to like them riding my foldcycles.

BigChief 04-15-18 10:16 AM


Originally Posted by Chaser95 (Post 20285301)
Spent another day on the road. Six and a half hours and 394 miles later and I am the owner of a Raleigh Twenty. Hub is dated July 68. Cables have been wrapped around the headset so the rear brake and shifter do not work. Cosmetically not too bad. Air in the tires and some oil in the hub and shifter and I was riding.......in low gear with no rear brake. Needs grips, chain guard, cables, oil cap and some 'clean and polish'. I asked about the history and was told, "the kids rode it.....been sitting in the basement for years". Fine with me!

Nice find! The 20s have a loyal following. Very popular. Lots of custom builds.

Chaser95 04-15-18 12:37 PM

They are rare in my area too. Did not need to buy another bike right now but, when will another one pop up? This one was only six miles down the road from the green Sports I recently brought home. Wish I could have done it in one trip!

BigChief 04-15-18 01:01 PM

In case you haven't seen it, here's a link to Sheldon Brown's 20 page

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/raleigh-twenty.html

oldveloman 04-15-18 01:25 PM

3 Attachment(s)
I finally found a serial number. It is located under the seat, but there' s lots of small scratches there - probably caused by a chainlock - so it is hardly visible.
Brake calipers have been replaced by better ones I had available, new inner and outer tube were fitted to the rear wheel and all other parts were cleaned and put back together.
Bike runs well, but the left cranck is bent, so I will have to replace that...

Peter

Cute Boy Horse 04-15-18 02:19 PM

Oh ho, mystery deepens, rim brakes but a bottle dynamo!

I swear they must've been keeping the good stuff for the uk only.

dweenk 04-15-18 02:28 PM


Originally Posted by oldveloman (Post 20285800)
I finally found a serial number. It is located under the seat, but there' s lots of small scratches there - probably caused by a chainlock - so it is hardly visible.
Brake calipers have been replaced by better ones I had available, new inner and outer tube were fitted to the rear wheel and all other parts were cleaned and put back together.
Bike runs well, but the left cranck is bent, so I will have to replace that...

Peter

That steel crank can probably be straightened.

johnnyspaghetti 04-15-18 04:38 PM

Everything looks perfect

arty dave 04-15-18 04:54 PM


Originally Posted by dweenk (Post 20285930)
That steel crank can probably be straightened.

Yep, and easily if you have a vice. When I found a replacement crank for my DL-1, it must have had a very localised hit near or on the pedal, as it was the last couple of inches that was imperceptibly bent. I didn't notice until the pedal felt weird on a test ride. But five minutes of bending/checking/bending/checking and it was nice and straight.
That's a nice bike Peter, nice Raleigh font on it too. I had a look at your other bikes, the BSA is also cool and I really like the Triumph with the cream or white front end darts.

johnnyspaghetti 04-15-18 05:45 PM

I cannot ride in 14" of snow.

thumpism 04-15-18 07:14 PM


Originally Posted by johnnyspaghetti (Post 20286271)
I cannot ride in 14" of snow.

You need very tall wheels and a high bottom bracket.

SirMike1983 04-15-18 07:36 PM

I like where Raleigh Denmark has headed in terms of keeping close to traditional-style roadsters. I wrote in 2012 about how much I liked the Danish Raleigh line, and they still look good to me.

https://bikeshedva.blogspot.com/2012...old-style.html

Raleigh could tailor bikes to each market. Denmark was no exception.

I was lucky enough to come across and revive an early 1960s Raleigh that was made in England and imported into Denmark. It was also dark green, but not as dark as the export DL-1 I now own. It came with Sturmey drum brakes hooked up to rod-links. The bike was based on a Raleigh Dawn platform: 26 x 1-3/8 wheels with a Sports-style frame. But it had the rod-drum set up and was built to take a chain case. The paint was in decent shape, but the decals were pretty much wiped out by the time I owned this bike.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-XVlWdiv7g...0/IMG_2951.JPG

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-7c_C0sqNV...0/IMG_2953.JPG

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5ZSev8tVa...0/IMG_2952.JPG

I ultimately sold the bike because I prefer the taller 23 inch frame with the 26 inch wheels. I do prefer the smaller frame on the DL-1 28-inch wheel type bikes though.

mirfi 04-15-18 07:45 PM


Originally Posted by Chaser95 (Post 20285301)
Spent another day on the road. Six and a half hours and 394 miles later and I am the owner of a Raleigh Twenty. Hub is dated July 68. Cables have been wrapped around the headset so the rear brake and shifter do not work. Cosmetically not too bad. Air in the tires and some oil in the hub and shifter and I was riding.......in low gear with no rear brake. Needs grips, chain guard, cables, oil cap and some 'clean and polish'. I asked about the history and was told, "the kids rode it.....been sitting in the basement for years". Fine with me!

Very nice, this is in many ways preferable to the folder. Add folding pedals turn handlebars 90 degrees it takes up no space at all. Also will fit in the back seat of most cars. Very, very nice. Enjoy.

BigChief 04-15-18 08:00 PM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 20286506)
I like where Raleigh Denmark has headed in terms of keeping close to traditional-style roadsters. I wrote in 2012 about how much I liked the Danish Raleigh line, and they still look good to me.

https://bikeshedva.blogspot.com/2012...old-style.html

Raleigh could tailor bikes to each market. Denmark was no exception.

I was lucky enough to come across and revive an early 1960s Raleigh that was made in England and imported into Denmark. It was also dark green, but not as dark as the export DL-1 I now own. It came with Sturmey drum brakes hooked up to rod-links. The bike was based on a Raleigh Dawn platform: 26 x 1-3/8 wheels with a Sports-style frame. But it had the rod-drum set up and was built to take a chain case. The paint was in decent shape, but the decals were pretty much wiped out by the time I owned this bike.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-XVlWdiv7g...0/IMG_2951.JPG

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-7c_C0sqNV...0/IMG_2953.JPG

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5ZSev8tVa...0/IMG_2952.JPG

I ultimately sold the bike because I prefer the taller 23 inch frame with the 26 inch wheels. I do prefer the smaller frame on the DL-1 28-inch wheel type bikes though.

I seem to be in love with this color. Guess it's settled then...the next scorcher is going to be dark green!

paulb_in_bkln 04-15-18 09:46 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20286560)
I seem to be in love with this color. Guess it's settled then...the next scorcher is going to be dark green!

Is there a way to analyze the color so you can get a good match?

gster 04-16-18 03:04 AM

2 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by arty dave (Post 20286192)
Yep, and easily if you have a vice. When I found a replacement crank for my DL-1, it must have had a very localised hit near or on the pedal, as it was the last couple of inches that was imperceptibly bent. I didn't notice until the pedal felt weird on a test ride. But five minutes of bending/checking/bending/checking and it was nice and straight.
That's a nice bike Peter, nice Raleigh font on it too. I had a look at your other bikes, the BSA is also cool and I really like the Triumph with the cream or white front end darts.

Big Chief posted a tutorial on fixing a bent crank a while back.
I followed his advice and was able to straighten a bent crank last year.
Attachment 607452

I used a pipe lined with cardboard to straighten the crank on this ’61 Superbe.

https://threespeedmania.wordpress.co...ider-progress/

Big Chief says:

“The best check is to put the pedal back and test ride, but you can save some time by holding a spare crank arm against the one you’re adjusting. When the light between the two arms is symmetrical like this, you’re close. This arm was badly bent. I took this picture before I did the test ride and it was spot on. No wobble. Didn’t need any further bending.”
Attachment 607453

oldveloman 04-16-18 03:05 AM


Originally Posted by Cute Boy Horse (Post 20284956)
Ah, so this is what the Belgians were getting at that time? Interesting. It's still got the steel cottered cranks and the 60s/70s lugs, but then it's got a mudguard mounted taillight and a rack, which we didn't see in the UK until the mid 80s when they did the big cost reduction and made it share parts with the modern bikes.

All the - mostly sixties - Raleigh and Triumph bikes I owned, had mudguard mounted taillights and a rack, but I did notice that the racks often had a slightly different colour, so I guess they were mounted when they arrived here in Belgium ?
All of them also had rim brakes AND a bottle dynamo! ;)


Originally Posted by dweenk (Post 20285930)
That steel crank can probably be straightened.

Yes, it probably can, but I' ll have to drill out the cotter pin first, as it seems to be corroded badly inside the crank.
I' ll have a go at it later.

Peter

oldveloman 04-16-18 03:45 AM

2 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by arty dave (Post 20286192)
That's a nice bike Peter, nice Raleigh font on it too. I had a look at your other bikes, the BSA is also cool and I really like the Triumph with the cream or white front end darts.

Thanks :)
The 1954 BSA is a very pleasant bike and has been my nearly daily ride for the past years. It has the BSA 3-speed rear wheel.
It replaced the “White peak head"- Triumph that has been with me for the past 25 years. The Triumph is in need of a total restoration, due to salty roads during winter.

I am still trying to figure out when it left the factory though.
It was a single speed Triumph Sports when I bought it in a garage sale, but after a few years, I replaced the rear wheel with a 3 speed I had laying around, so no clue there...

As it is a Raleigh built bike, I looked at the list at Raleigh Serial Numbers & Charts , but that wasn' t helpful.
The serial on the bottom bracket reads XY8567 .
The “peak head" suggests the bike was made somewhere between 1957 and 1965

Anyone any clues ?

Peter


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