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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

BigChief 07-21-18 03:12 PM

Dang, all these years I been saying fawnas. Don't that just frost ya.

SirMike1983 07-21-18 04:38 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20459756)

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1ee017eeef.jpg
The ESGE doesn't quite cover up the damage to the left chain stay.

That's pretty much standard for that stand you removed. The ESGE rarely will cover the damage, but if it's particularly flattened, you end up having to add shims to get the kickstand to sit correctly on the frame. It looks like yours did not need shims, which is actually a good thing. The frames are pretty heavily built in that area, so it's a cosmetic issue. I've seen them go bad if they get water (ice especially) in them down there from sitting outside, but normally it's a cosmetic. You have a nice Rudge there.

paulb_in_bkln 07-22-18 07:28 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20459756)
This isn't the official all finished photo. I still have the lights to fix. Sometimes you put a lot of work into a bike only to find that you don't like to ride it much. Not so here. This one is a nice, nice ride. A keeper. Very smooth and solid feeling.
I couldn't help myself...I scanned eBay until I found a pair of 50s English roadster grips. I know I've been jabbering on about that lately. I also know that it's not entirely rational to spend 47 dollars on a pair of old handlebar grips for a 150 dollar bike, but if I was a rational person I wouldn't have a barn of full of old 3 speeds. Go figure. Still, no more projects until I unload some bikes. There's 3 I want to keep. I routed the brake cables English style. Neater and it leaves a nice spot for the headlight. I'm used to left/front from my rod brakes anyway. My thanks to RJ the bike guy on you tube. His video of the Dyno hub was super helpful.



I left the old Dunlop Sport tires on. And they do say inflate hard!

The ESGE doesn't quite cover up the damage to the left chain stay.

Not much wear on the rubber pedals. Don't think this bike ever saw much mileage.

Beautiful job. It gleams. How long are your typical rides? And would you put a rack on it? I don't much like the look of rear racks, but what else is there to do? Going to the beach means a chair and clamp on umbrella, plus comestibles, book, newspaper, sandwich, drink. Incidentally, on my Rudge one of the chainstays is badly squeezed on the bottom side. I wonder if it could even have been done at the factory. Anyway a handsome restored bike.

paulb_in_bkln 07-22-18 07:34 AM


Originally Posted by browngw (Post 20461320)
Spotted these sweet CCM multi-speeds at the Canadian Vintage Bicycle Show a few weeks ago. The idea of using a Sturmey-Archer three speed with a derailleur intrigues me. Perhaps its time to start some research. If the owner of these bikes in on BF, kudos for a great collection.

Somewhere I read someone warning against setting up an AW with gearing lower than something or something. Basically that AWs aren't strong enough for climbing with the sort of granny gearing that's commonplace on new bikes today. (Which could easily be done with a derailer combo.) I have no idea if they were speaking from experience.

thumpism 07-22-18 07:57 AM

I have a Cyclo Benelux conversion kit new in the (disintegrating) box and parts for another one floating around somewhere.

Originally Posted by browngw (Post 20461320)
The idea of using a Sturmey-Archer three speed with a derailleur intrigues me. Perhaps its time to start some research.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3844d03cea.jpg


BigChief 07-22-18 09:20 AM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20462267)
Beautiful job. It gleams. How long are your typical rides? And would you put a rack on it? I don't much like the look of rear racks, but what else is there to do? Going to the beach means a chair and clamp on umbrella, plus comestibles, book, newspaper, sandwich, drink. Incidentally, on my Rudge one of the chainstays is badly squeezed on the bottom side. I wonder if it could even have been done at the factory. Anyway a handsome restored bike.

Thanks Paul. This is the nicest riding roadster I have now. Strange why such similar factory made bikes should feel so different to ride. I just finished another tall Sports and went over everything. For some reason this one feels more solid, just a nicer ride. It's too bad Raleigh stopped using stainless spokes. These are great. 66 years old and they still sparkle in the sunlight. Every spoke I adjusted worked smoothly.
The way my job is, I never have time for long rides. Never have a day off, but I have breaks over the day so I do 5 to 15 mile rides. Just in a loop, but at least I get to ride most every day it's not raining. Sometimes 2 short rides.

thumpism 07-22-18 06:24 PM

The one in the lead photo looks interesting. Can't make out the name on the seat tube or recognize the head badge. J.C.Higgins? Has that oddball, fully-sheathed gear cable running down a seat stay like on a recent bike posted here. Might go cheap.

https://richmond.craigslist.org/bik/...650088057.htmlAntique bikes for sale - $1 (AMELIA COURT HOUSE)

https://images.craigslist.org/01616_...lk_600x450.jpg
https://images.craigslist.org/01616_...ld_600x450.jpg
https://images.craigslist.org/00U0U_...D6_600x450.jpg


bicycle type: other
frame size: 10
make / manufacturer: Other
wheel size: other/unknown
Three old bikes for sale always stored inside. Make offer on one or all call only no text no email I will not answer 804-363-96 two zero

BigChief 07-23-18 05:58 AM

Well, here it is. The ring tab was just crimped onto the insulation with no contact with the wire. They were supposed to strip off some insulation, fold the wire back and then crimp on the tab. This lamp never worked. No wonder the bulb isn't burnt out. It was never lit!. Makes me wonder what the story here is. This was an expensive purchase in it's day. Judging from this and the rubber pedal blocks, it looks like somebody bought an expensive bike, didn't ride it and didn't notice or care that the light didn't work. At least I don't have to mess with that solder joint. I do have to salvage that ring tab, find a piece of suitable wire, splice it onto the existing wire, attach the ring tab properly, put everything back together and hope it works. That's plan A. There is power coming from the hub. Hard to measure with my old analog voltmeter since the AC makes the needle bounce around, but it looks to be 8 volts or so.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...caa7800541.jpg

BigPolishJimmy 07-23-18 06:25 AM

I was going to suggest trying to reflow the solder with a little heat, but you got it figured. Also, beautiful bike you have there.

Lawrence_S 07-23-18 06:28 AM

This should be my 10th post. Let's see if I can post some pics now...

Lawrence_S 07-23-18 06:40 AM

My two 1980 Raleighs. A Ladies Superbe with most of the bells and whistles:

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5b77807d0d.jpg

And the semi-scorcher Tourist:

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1df14d5c10.jpg

Looking for an inspection/pedal port for the Superbe's chaincase.

Regards,

Larry

BigChief 07-23-18 12:47 PM

The loop frame is a Danish Raleigh. Very nice bikes. They still make them. Perhaps they can sell you the chaincase part. Good looking DL-1 Welcome to the big roadster club!
https://raleighbikes.dk/

Buellster 07-24-18 01:23 AM


Originally Posted by ryansu (Post 20461351)
@Buellster if$$ isn't an object you might even consider converting the Harding to a 700c wheels and the sourcing a (gasp!) new IGH wheelset with more gears, but since vintage 3 speeds are abundant and can be had relatively inexpensively in most places you might start with a purpose built 3 speed to restore and see how you like it before tackling a conversion project. YMMV

haha if only money was no object. Though I have put some 700c wheels onto this bike. I decided to use the drivetrain from a bike I have that I'm stripping down to sell the frame of. It had some 700c campy tires. The thing is... the hub is a seven speed! *audible gasps from crowd in the 3 speed thread*
This will be my primary rider so I'm just trying to get it running with what I have on hand asap.
My next bike I pick up will definitely be a three speed though. I'm thinking I'll buy a bike that is a three speed and work with repairing it instead of starting with a conversion project.
baby steps haha

BigChief 07-24-18 04:28 AM

I replaced the wire from the center bulb contact to the central hot terminal and now I do get power to the headlight. Very weak. I know it's not a bright light, but this has the dim yellow glow of a flashlight with a half hour left in it's battery even with a fast spin of the wheel. So I did some research on line...boy I wish I knew what I was doing...and found this diagram on the SA heritage website. I found someone did try new bulbs at some point. They were both 6v .5amp which are not the bulbs specified in the diagram. My question is...Does my weak light result from using a 6v .5amp bulb where a 6v .3amp bulb is specified? I haven't even looked at the tail light yet, but that spec is a 6v .04 bulb so I won't try yet. The diagram shows a two position switch and mine is a three. I'm assuming the 3rd position allows you to turn off the tail light. Is this correct?

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...027fa7ca74.jpg

Buellster 07-24-18 07:34 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20465964)
I replaced the wire from the center bulb contact to the central hot terminal and now I do get power to the headlight. Very weak. I know it's not a bright light, but this has the dim yellow glow of a flashlight with a half hour left in it's battery even with a fast spin of the wheel. So I did some research on line...boy I wish I knew what I was doing...and found this diagram on the SA heritage website. I found someone did try new bulbs at some point. They were both 6v .5amp which are not the bulbs specified in the diagram. My question is...Does my weak light result from using a 6v .5amp bulb where a 6v .3amp bulb is specified? I haven't even looked at the tail light yet, but that spec is a 6v .04 bulb so I won't try yet. The diagram shows a two position switch and mine is a three. I'm assuming the 3rd position allows you to turn off the tail light. Is this correct?

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...027fa7ca74.jpg

I recently installed a bottle Dynamo on my bike and was having a similair problem.
The issue was the ground. Which is usually the issue with most electronics I deal with haha(I work on industrial instruments at my job).
On my light the ground is just a screw coming out of the dynamo that contacts the bike and then screws in each light that do the same, so it uses my frame as the ground to complete the circuit. It looks as though you have three wires pots on in your headlight there. I imagine one goes to the bulb and another goes to a grounding point and a third travels somewhere else. Where is that ground going and is it seated well?
if it isn't it may be why your getting such weak light, because your circuit isn't complete.

noglider 07-24-18 08:06 AM

@BigChief, I love your Rudge.

BigChief 07-24-18 08:52 AM


Originally Posted by Buellster (Post 20466251)
I recently installed a bottle Dynamo on my bike and was having a similair problem.
The issue was the ground. Which is usually the issue with most electronics I deal with haha(I work on industrial instruments at my job).
On my light the ground is just a screw coming out of the dynamo that contacts the bike and then screws in each light that do the same, so it uses my frame as the ground to complete the circuit. It looks as though you have three wires pots on in your headlight there. I imagine one goes to the bulb and another goes to a grounding point and a third travels somewhere else. Where is that ground going and is it seated well?
if it isn't it may be why your getting such weak light, because your circuit isn't complete.

This system uses two separate wires to each lamp and doesn't use the frame for ground. I suppose I could start cleaning up the contacts and AB testing all the wires, but that's a lot to go through if the problem is the bulb. The diagram cautions against using the wrong value bulbs.I have no experience to draw from. Everything I do with this is hit or miss.

BigChief 07-24-18 08:54 AM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 20466324)
@BigChief, I love your Rudge.

Thanks Tom. I know you have always been fond of Rudges.

noglider 07-24-18 09:00 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20466452)
Thanks Tom. I know you have always been fond of Rudges.

Yes, I waited about 30 years to acquire mine!

Buellster 07-24-18 09:16 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20466448)
This system uses two separate wires to each lamp and doesn't use the frame for ground. I suppose I could start cleaning up the contacts and AB testing all the wires, but that's a lot to go through if the problem is the bulb. The diagram cautions against using the wrong value bulbs.I have no experience to draw from. Everything I do with this is hit or miss.

Okay so the second wire runs from the front lamp to the rear then, or back to the dynamo? I'm just trying to get a feel for what's completing your circut.
Could be the bulb it's a good idea to try and find the exact recommended one, but if you are getting a flickering light it's more likley a wiring issue. I have an LED bulb in mine which isn't spec OEM but it works great.
How old are the wires? They look fine from the pics, and the landings look good too. If they are older though they could be frayed or broken inside the housing.
I ended up using a nine volt battery I had and two wires to make sure my light bulbs worked (they were old, if yours are new from the store you know your good) and then I used the same battery to test the bulb while inside the lamp. So I put the positive and the negative wires coming off the front and then the back lamp to the batteries terminals respectively. Essentially cutting out the whole dynamo and checking my lamps with a stable power source. When I got light that way I knew I had a grounding issue. If that doesnt work you've got a bulb or a wiring issue. Or a bad dynamo but to test that your need a voltmeter.

BigChief 07-24-18 09:50 AM

The lamps are wired in series. Hub to switch to headlight to tail light. I can't see the switch contacts from the front, but I'm assuming one of the 3 positions lifts one of the wires to the tail light out of the circuit. I like you're idea of testing with a 9v battery. It's hard for me to say just how much voltage is coming from the hub. I have an old fashioned analog voltmeter and the needle bounces around wildly, but I'd say it's around 8 volts at it's peak. I'll do the battery test first then move to plan B. Which is LED bulbs. Did you use one of the XGEN-2 regulators these guys recommend ?
REGULATORS FOR DYNAMO GENERATORS

Buellster 07-24-18 11:45 AM

Yeah it definitely sounds like a solid circut as long as the wires are good. Could be the switch potentially as well, sometimes the wires will lose contact or fray so bad inside the switch case that they can't pass a current. (Not an experience with dynamos but switches as a whole)
I dont have a regulator but it's a good idea, those are to limit the current and prevent blown bulbs right?

I have gone pretty fast and havnt had any issues, but it may because my LED has a higher voltage capacity than the initial bulb.
8 volts seems reasonable. At least from the perspective of my bottle dynamo which operates between 6 and 12 volts.

Johno59 07-25-18 12:03 AM

A Dim View
 
Back in the day, when all this gear was brand new, one of the reasons few people rode around at night (unless forced to) was these rigs gave off very little light. They were a step up from wick burning lanterns but only just.
If powered by a Dynohub the bulbs will burn out if you go down a big hill fast enough - especially if you hit a pothole at speed.
As a kid, going down an unpaved road with loose gravel either side, at 30 mph, at night : then hit a bump and your Dynohub blows the bulb - plunging you into ink-black darkness-- still haunts me.

BigChief 07-25-18 04:36 AM

I'm not expecting a whole lot of light from this lamp, but if you saw it you could tell it's not up to speed. I'm reluctant to start rewiring the whole business while I know I have the wrong bulbs. I'm swimming in a sea of ignorance here, but at least I'll end up with some Dynohub knowledge by the time I win this battle. Although, I am very tempted to refit the wires. There's a lot of excess wire that was wrapped around the fork leg and seat stay to take up slack that looks sloppy to me. I also salvaged a pair of old black cable clips from a wreck that I could add to the top tube so the tail light wire could be held at four points and not droop down so badly. I really like them. Less than 1/4" wide and very springy and light. Looks to be the same material as an old clock mainspring is made from. They would be barely noticeable. I knew I'd have a use for them someday.

thumpism 07-25-18 04:43 AM

Not English and not cheap, but a nice example of the Speedster breed in a tall size, despite what he measured. That's pretty unusual, but I know of a rougher one at the local co-op for about a tenth of the price.

https://richmond.craigslist.org/bik/...652627865.html

Schwinn Speedster ~1972 3-speed men - $299 (Glen Allen)


https://images.craigslist.org/00Q0Q_...Qd_600x450.jpg


bicycle type: other
condition: excellent
frame size: 17.5"
make / manufacturer: Schwinn
model name / number: Speedster
serial number: DK612159
wheel size: 26 in
This 1970s Schwinn is in excellent condition and is all original. It has been completely cleaned and lubed. All bearings are in very good condition and the wheels are true. It rides and shifts smoothly. I have more photos and videos if you would like to see them.
call or text 5%4$0-9(0)8-0)7&0)4

noglider 07-25-18 08:38 AM


Originally Posted by Johno59 (Post 20467995)
Back in the day, when all this gear was brand new, one of the reasons few people rode around at night (unless forced to) was these rigs gave off very little light. They were a step up from wick burning lanterns but only just.
If powered by a Dynohub the bulbs will burn out if you go down a big hill fast enough - especially if you hit a pothole at speed.
As a kid, going down an unpaved road with loose gravel either side, at 30 mph, at night : then hit a bump and your Dynohub blows the bulb - plunging you into ink-black darkness-- still haunts me.

Yeah I love old bikes almost as much as other folks here, but I don't enjoy the thought of using filament bulbs with no voltage regulator or engineered reflector or lens. The new lights are so much better than the old ones that it's almost a matter of life and death. I rode a country road with just a flashlight in my hand, and man, was that scary.

It is not a crazy idea to run modern LED lights off an antique Dynohub. In theory it should not work because you're supposed to have a supply of 3W, and the Dynohub is rated at 1.8W, but in practice, it is likely to work OK, especially if you don't hook up a tail light.

Lawrence_S 07-25-18 09:03 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20464765)
The loop frame is a Danish Raleigh. Very nice bikes. They still make them. Perhaps they can sell you the chaincase part. Good looking DL-1 Welcome to the big roadster club!
https://raleighbikes.dk/

Thanks, BigChief. Did the Danish-produced Raleighs have the Nottingham head badge and "Made in England" decals? I suppose this frame could have had new decals but from the looks of them they're pretty old. The serial is "W0..." [Edit: actually I believe it is N0...] and the SA AW hub is "7" and "80" so I'm fairly certain of the date.

I'm enjoying the DL-1. Unfortunately the right front fork leg is slightly bent in towards the frame and causes the wheel to want to track to the right. Any links to a safe and as-gentle-as-possible method for straightening? I assume a large pipe would also work.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5778c4224c.jpg

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...453fecf7a8.jpg

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c64498ff6d.jpg

Ballenxj 07-25-18 09:11 AM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 20468418)
Yeah I love old bikes almost as much as other folks here, but I don't enjoy the thought of using filament bulbs with no voltage regulator or engineered reflector or lens. The new lights are so much better than the old ones that it's almost a matter of life and death. I rode a country road with just a flashlight in my hand, and man, was that scary.

It is not a crazy idea to run modern LED lights off an antique Dynohub. In theory it should not work because you're supposed to have a supply of 3W, and the Dynohub is rated at 1.8W, but in practice, it is likely to work OK, especially if you don't hook up a tail light.

One thing to note, regardless of what vintage bike, I consider a flashing red led on the rear a safety matter. As I drive down roads, I watch for bicycles anyway, but have noted those with a flashing led are much more noticeable, and from a much greater distance. Don't substitute nostalgia for safety. You can mount the led in an antique looking housing though. ;)

Cute Boy Horse 07-25-18 09:13 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20465964)
They were both 6v .5amp which are not the bulbs specified in the diagram. My question is...Does my weak light result from using a 6v .5amp bulb where a 6v .3amp bulb is specified?

Yeah, the higher rated bulb doesn't resist the power enough, so it doesn't get hot enough to glow properly. I've seen some people fit bulbs so large that they offered absolutely no resistance at all, acting like a short circuit and burning up the dynamo.

There are sellers of LED replacement bulbs out there, so long as you get one with a wide operating voltage range (say 2.5-9v) you'll be good to go. The only problem is that Dynohubs are a lot more low frequency AC so they tend to flicker. The cure for that is the dry battery unit, or homemade copy - even when the batteries are missing the AC > DC rectifier essentially doubles the light flicker rate, since a LED only operates with power in one direction.

I use reflectalite bulbs, but they're based out of the UK. You might want to find someone closer.

desconhecido 07-25-18 11:42 AM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 20468418)
Yeah I love old bikes almost as much as other folks here, but I don't enjoy the thought of using filament bulbs with no voltage regulator or engineered reflector or lens. The new lights are so much better than the old ones that it's almost a matter of life and death. I rode a country road with just a flashlight in my hand, and man, was that scary.

It is not a crazy idea to run modern LED lights off an antique Dynohub. In theory it should not work because you're supposed to have a supply of 3W, and the Dynohub is rated at 1.8W, but in practice, it is likely to work OK, especially if you don't hook up a tail light.

I have two Sports bikes with SA Dynohubs connected to recent B&M LED headlights and no tail lights. Works fine. Probably not quite as bright as with a Shimano DH-3N72 or 80, but adequate. I'm sure it puts out a lot more usable light than the old filament bulbs did. Might even be better if the output from the hub would be rectified, but I'm not sure if the B&M lights take care of that or not. You can get LED tail lights that are supposed to only use about 0.1 watt. That would present a current drain of less than 20 ma if the hub is putting out about 6v. Probably work ok. Eventually, I'll find out when I get the rear IGH 4-speed with dyno up and running.

edit:
The bikes with Dynohubs and LED headlights have battery powered LED tail lights. These Cateye and Zefal lights are inexpensive and use so little power that the batteries last a long time.


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