Catapulting Disc Brakes
I've been riding for over 30 years and have yet to try out the relatively new Disc Brakes. In the early years I catapulted over the handlebars on at least two occasions and nearly catapulted at least two other times, before it became instinct for me to squeeze the rear brake first.
I'm curious how easy is it to catapult using front disc brakes (compared to traditional brakes)? I'm wondering if my current methodical use of traditional brakes, where I brake first with rear brakes, then employ the front brakes would smoothly cross over to use of disc brakes. (I guess this question is best for riders that rode many years with traditional brakes, that recently have transitioned over to discs). . |
Depending on the rim brakes you're using, disc brakes may be a little more powerful (mechanical discs) or much more powerful (hydraulic discs). As with anything, it's simply a matter of becoming accustomed to them. But yeah, starting with the rear brake, and then applying the front, will be a good starting point.
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Originally Posted by work4bike
(Post 21675652)
I've been riding for over 30 years and have yet to try out the relatively new Disc Brakes. In the early years I catapulted over the handlebars on at least two occasions and nearly catapulted at least two other times, before it became instinct for me to squeeze the rear brake first.
I'm curious how easy is it to catapult using front disc brakes (compared to traditional brakes)? I'm wondering if my current methodical use of traditional brakes, where I brake first with rear brakes, then employ the front brakes would smoothly cross over to use of disc brakes. (I guess this question is best for riders that rode many years with traditional brakes, that recently have transitioned over to discs). . The harder I brake, the more I put my butt behind the saddle and stiffen my arms. Standing on pedals lowers your center of gravity and makes it much harder to do a Superman |
I forgot to mention that as one of my methods of braking is to put my butt as far back as possible. However, I usually only do that on very quick stops, but I still hit the rear brake first. So I'm not sure how that (shifting my center of gravity) would works with a fast stop using front brakes at speed (over 20mph).
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Any brake worth a poop will throw you over the bars if you squeeze hard and don’t lean back some.
None of these brakes in and of themselves are more likely to do so than others. For ALL brakes it is a matter of getting used to the way they react to lever action. Many people will argue that brakes with better “modulation” are less likely to throw you OTB or skid, but then argue for pages over what better modulation actually means. I like powerful brake that stop me with less lever pressure and movement. The trick is to do a lot of practice hard stops to learn how the brakes react to lever input. |
I'm not faulting disc brakes for being a kickass catapulting mechanism. I'm just wondering if other riders (with many years of riding) that have switched over from traditional brakes have had to change how they prevent the catapulting.
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If you suddenly grab a handfull of brakes and squeeze as hard as possible, yeah, hydraulic disks will throw you a** over teakettle. But it's the same thing as any other brakes - good brakes need to be used correctly. I don't know that you need to do the rear first - I don't - but if it works for you, go ahead.
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You need to learn about proportion. I've never come close to catapulting with any braking system and can't even imagine how you could do that other than in a severe panic situation. Don't squeeze any harder than you need to to slow at whatever rate is required.
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Any Harley rider care to explain how using the front brake causes you to superman.
It's all about center of gravity and the speed of the weight transfer. If your center of gravity is high, and your weight transfer is fast (because you didn't prepare your body in anticipation of the braking), then you WILL fly over the bar. But if you prepare yourself, then you can brake as hard as your brake can allow all the way up until the point of lockout (assuming a straightline and dry condition) and you will never go over. NOTE: going in a straightline on dry clean pavement, it is virtually IMPOSSIBLE to lock the front wheel. |
A good front brake should be strong enough to lift the rear wheel. Most decent disk brakes I've ridden can do that with 1 or 2 fingers on the lever. Adjusting to good brakes is easy, they are almost telepathic. Going back to cantis or calipers for a ride or 2 can be frightening until you remember to squeeze like you mean it.
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I have yet to be catapulted by a bike or anything for that matter. If I have an issue of braking it is usually just a matter of knowing how to brake and making sure I am not just grabbing a fistful of front brake.
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On casual level JRA Bikes with V brakes they have supplied a "modulator" .. your cable housing pushes down a spring in the 'noodle'..
that softens the initial bite .. with disc brakes the modulation is a skill .... + basically some calipers better than others .. I swapped the front Avid BB7 for a TRP Hy Rd, it's internal hydraulics, don't come on as abruptly as the ones that came on the bike.. still cable operated.. One option : Anticipate the need for heavy braking a couple second before hand, push your butt back , low off & behind the saddle I brace your straight arms against the forces.. of that deceleration.. ... |
Originally Posted by Ogsarg
(Post 21675811)
You need to learn about proportion. I've never come close to catapulting with any braking system and can't even imagine how you could do that other than in a severe panic situation. Don't squeeze any harder than you need to to slow at whatever rate is required.
Boy, I just love all the freakin' exerpts on this website:rolleyes:
Originally Posted by aclinjury
(Post 21676022)
Any Harley rider care to explain how using the front brake causes you to superman.
It's all about center of gravity and the speed of the weight transfer. If your center of gravity is high, and your weight transfer is fast (because you didn't prepare your body in anticipation of the braking), then you WILL fly over the bar. But if you prepare yourself, then you can brake as hard as your brake can allow all the way up until the point of lockout (assuming a straightline and dry condition) and you will never go over. NOTE: going in a straightline on dry clean pavement, it is virtually IMPOSSIBLE to lock the front wheel. . |
Originally Posted by fietsbob
(Post 21676066)
On casual level JRA Bikes with V brakes they have supplied a "modulator" .. your cable housing pushes down a spring in the 'noodle'..
that softens the initial bite .. with disc brakes the modulation is a skill .... + basically some calipers better than others .. I swapped the front Avid BB7 for a TRP Hy Rd, it's internal hydraulics, don't come on as abruptly as the ones that came on the bike.. still cable operated.. . |
Originally Posted by aclinjury
(Post 21676022)
Any Harley rider care to explain how using the front brake causes you to superman.
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BTW ALL, the reason I'm asking the question is because I'm in the market for a new bike and I'm seriously considering disc brakes, simply because of the stopping power (I've heard of) during wet conditions. Can't tell you how long it took me to develop the skill of riding with virtually no brakes in the rain.
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I didn't go 'over the bars' , but i did have the bike stop short, , I kept moving,.. I was going slow , then..
I put out my hand , to catch myself.. as I hit the sidewalk, that did not help my wrist .. |
Originally Posted by fietsbob
(Post 21676112)
I didn't go 'over the bars' , but i did have the bike stop short, , I kept moving,.. I was going slow , then..
I put out my hand , to catch myself.. as I hit the sidewalk, that did not help my wrist .. There are a few accidents I had when I first started cycling that still pop in my head while riding today. Front brake is one of them, but the other is when I accidentally veered off road and immediately swerved by onto the road and as my front tire hit the raised lip of the road, I went flying into the middle of a two lane roadway where cars are going at least 50mph. I don't know how, but I instinctively jumped up, grabbed my bike and ran out of the road before the car behind could hit me -- one of those incredible times in your life. That was back in the mid-80's and to this day, every time I start to veer off the road, an image of that accident jumps in my head. |
I find that most disc brakes are much easier to modulate than linear pull "v-brakes." Many powerful rim brakes have an on/off feel rather than a good amount of middle ground feeling. You have to pull a disc brake hard to lock up a wheel and there's a fair degree of modulation before that.
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Have to wonder just how experienced of a rider you are if you are honestly worried about braking sending you over the bars. You sound like the people on the recumbent sites.
Been riding 50 years and have had absolutely zero issues transitioning to disc brakes. In fact, a good set of hydro discs have better modulation than some of the older brakes giving the rider considerably more control over braking force. |
Originally Posted by work4bike
(Post 21676135)
I did a true superman impersonation. I'm sure it was entertaining to the "spectators".
There are a few accidents I had when I first started cycling that still pop in my head while riding today. Front brake is one of them, but the other is when I accidentally veered off road and immediately swerved by onto the road and as my front tire hit the raised lip of the road, I went flying into the middle of a two lane roadway where cars are going at least 50mph. I don't know how, but I instinctively jumped up, grabbed my bike and ran out of the road before the car behind could hit me -- one of those incredible times in your life. That was back in the mid-80's and to this day, every time I start to veer off the road, an image of that accident jumps in my head. The one and only time I've ever gone over the bars was when a stick went between my front wheel & fender, causing the fender to snap and lock up the wheel went it went under the fork crown. In that crash, I managed to instinctively tuck my chin and land on my shoulders and upper back, my head never touched the ground. Other than needing to replace the fender, there really wasn't much damage to the bike at all, and I only had some minor abrasions and a few bruises. |
I choose brake power considering how I ride. I grew up and learned on the ancient centerpulls, raced side-pulls, got introduced to driving on a Willis Jeep nearly as old as I am, and I was 34 years old before I drove a car with power anything. The instinct to squeeze hard is embedded in my reactions, At 67 , I am not re-training them (unless I am willing to do several flips over the bars). I very intentionaly stay away from powerrful brake combos. (My brakes are very good stoppers. They just require a real squeeze.)
I haven't made the jump to disc and probably won't Dual pivots work way to well for my hands so I "de-tune" them with V-brake levers. (LIkewise cantis.) They still stop me really well, but it now takes the real squeeze I've been doing all my life. Since I swapped out the levers, I can stop in a much shorter distance because I don't lock up or have to back off to keep the rear end in line. I have had the same issue with my cars. Power brakes just keep getting more powerful, more sensitive. Hard stops, instead of getting better, have gotten worse, until my last car with (finally) ABS, After 7 years, I still need it. That old Willis and my first car, a '71 VW bus, taught me really well. Ben |
Originally Posted by work4bike
(Post 21676135)
I did a true superman impersonation. I'm sure it was entertaining to the "spectators".
There are a few accidents I had when I first started cycling that still pop in my head while riding today. Front brake is one of them, but the other is when I accidentally veered off road and immediately swerved by onto the road and as my front tire hit the raised lip of the road, I went flying into the middle of a two lane roadway where cars are going at least 50mph. I don't know how, but I instinctively jumped up, grabbed my bike and ran out of the road before the car behind could hit me -- one of those incredible times in your life. That was back in the mid-80's and to this day, every time I start to veer off the road, an image of that accident jumps in my head. One person in the class had a bad habit of grabbing a handful of front brake. She high-sided twice during the weekend - no kidding. Not suggesting that's what happened, but it's something to consider at least. Glenn |
Originally Posted by mack_turtle
(Post 21676722)
I find that most disc brakes are much easier to modulate than linear pull "v-brakes." Many powerful rim brakes have an on/off feel rather than a good amount of middle ground feeling. You have to pull a disc brake hard to lock up a wheel and there's a fair degree of modulation before that.
Very helpful input, thank you! . |
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