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-   -   Totally Tubular (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=154679)

Drillium Dude 12-06-22 01:09 AM


Originally Posted by 79pmooney (Post 22730782)
I rode Cycle Oregon on the 28c Corsa G+ tubs. What a ride! And yes, quality tires! Haven't felt that level of confidence downhill on roads I'd never seen before in many years! No 25 yo testosterone levels needed. I found two goatheads at rest stops. First was a pump and ride 3+ miles slow leak. Second I saw before I took off. I had the mechanics put an ounce of their Bontranger sealant in and both tires have been issue free since.

I love that ribbed thread. I rode many ribbed thread training/club race ribbed treads back in my racing days and the decade after. Took that tread completely for granted. Then it disappeared for decades. Vittoria brought it back on the Corsas. First ribbed tread ride back, I had to ride off the pavement edge on a two lane county road to allow a 70 mph passing Camaro to go by. Got handed the choice of riding into a ditch or climbing back onto the pavement in sand. I choose the pavement, The tires just climbed up through the sand, no big deal. Thank you, thank you, thank you! (and "oh yeah,that ribbed tread always was the best for climbing out of cracks, ruts ... They went a long ways to making those skinny tires ride-able on not very good New England roads.)

This is good news - in particular, the praises sung regarding the ribbed portion of the tread. Hand on heart, I was never a fan of the look, particularly the straight-up Corsas with grooves across the entire width. But this one, with the herringbone tread edges, is a nice mixture of the two. The channels have me wondering if they'll be magnets for little pieces to get stuck in, so at the conclusion of each ride I'll religiously look closely at this feature. Hearing your experience with the tread has me looking forward to the ride, and I'm going to run without sealant until the same happens to me, then give it a go since you've proved that to be an option. Plus, I have a free spare to pop on in any case :)

But, really, the main takeaway in handling/mounting them was that they are very well-made, and although they don't seem to weigh all that much, they feel substantial. Does that make sense?

DD

Robvolz 12-06-22 02:27 AM

OK, vittoria cement is much sloppier than Clement cement.

I made a mess. All over the sidewalls. What I don't want to do is use some chemical that will weaken the structural element and cause them to blow out earlier than normal.

What would you use to clean off too much cement? Thinner? Goo-Gone? Steel Wool? or just live with it?

Thanks
Robert

pastorbobnlnh 12-06-22 12:58 PM


Originally Posted by Robvolz (Post 22730889)
OK, vittoria cement is much sloppier than Clement cement.

I made a mess. All over the sidewalls. What I don't want to do is use some chemical that will weaken the structural element and cause them to blow out earlier than normal.

What would you use to clean off too much cement? Thinner? Goo-Gone? Steel Wool? or just live with it?

Thanks
Robert

You're back from your hacienda.

Such a great argument to use tape instead of glue.

I'd worry that anything which can remove the glue can also compromise and the integrity of the sidewall. I believe you will need to live with it.

Drillium Dude , great deal on great looking Vittorias which can withstand your deep-sea pressures. Such a submariner! ;)

smontanaro 12-06-22 02:28 PM


Originally Posted by Robvolz (Post 22730889)
OK, vittoria cement is much sloppier than Clement cement.

I made a mess. All over the sidewalls. What I don't want to do is use some chemical that will weaken the structural element and cause them to blow out earlier than normal.

What would you use to clean off too much cement?

I've no comment on the clean-up. I try not to get too messy. I don't recall if you said how you applied glue, but I'll summarize how I do it without any mess.
  • It goes without saying that the tires must already be stretched.
  • I use effectively disposable acid/welding/paste brushes — available at your local big box home center (or Amazon)
  • I load up the brush reasonably well. On the rim (mounted in my truing stand), I tend to attack four or five spaces at once (never in the eyelets! — a pox on people who do that). Dab, dab, dab, dab, then work back over the four spots with the brush to cover edge-to-edge. A bit of light pressure and the brush fans out perfectly.
  • I inflate the tire a bit, just enough to hold its shape, stand it on the workbench and lean it against the pegboard. Again, load the brush up, then drag down the center of the base tape and feather out to the edges at an angle (like a chevron). The first coat soaks up a bunch more glue than the second.
I won't comment much on how many coats of glue to use or the spacing between coats. I generally apply two to new tires (that first coat pretty much disappears). Beyond that, I've tried any number of possible glue coats and set times. It's all good as far as I can tell. While you wait for the glue job to dry after mounting the tire, pump it well up (100psi minimum). The base tape must dip all the way down into the depression in the rim to get full contact from edge to edge. I'm never in much of a hurry, so I generally let it sit like that for a day or two before lowering the inflation to riding pressure.

Robvolz 12-06-22 02:53 PM

Thank you kindly for the tips.

Start with a stand! beats fumbling like I do. Hell, and old fork set in a bucket of sand would work.

I did watch the YouTube videos and did the 2 day process. but, instead of ruining a quality paint brush, and it was too late to hit dollar tree for sponge brushes, I placed a rubber glove on my hand and basically finger painted.

Excess on the rim wasn't an issue, a dab of paint remover took it off. The tire, even though mostly inflated was a different scenario. It got sloppy.

I will take your words to heed and start properly prepared.

79pmooney 12-06-22 03:06 PM


Originally Posted by Robvolz (Post 22731474)
Thank you kindly for the tips.

Start with a stand! beats fumbling like I do. Hell, and old fork set in a bucket of sand would work.

I did watch the YouTube videos and did the 2 day process. but, instead of ruining a quality paint brush, and it was too late to hit dollar tree for sponge brushes, I placed a rubber glove on my hand and basically finger painted.

Excess on the rim wasn't an issue, a dab of paint remover took it off. The tire, even though mostly inflated was a different scenario. It got sloppy.

I will take your words to heed and start properly prepared.

Yes! And the best stands are the el-cheapos made of stock steel flatbar and shapes. Those bent flatbar feet? Perfect to stand on. Start the stretch of the tire onto the rim with the valve down, hands on the tire a foot or so away. Now the lift and stretch is easy. In fact so easy I have to be careful not to pull too hard and narrow down the valve area of the tire.

And trick - unless you just pulled this tire off its stretching rim, re-mount it onto a dry rim. NOw you know how tightit is and how hard you should pull.

Drillium Dude 12-06-22 04:40 PM

All done, no muss, no fuss. For posterity, I took some pics:

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4c4c97a0ce.png

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...0ca13530_h.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...709f311a_h.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...93dfd97a_h.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...2a0e6e50_h.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...e8907e1f_h.jpg

DD

CV-6 12-06-22 06:19 PM

I hope you left a small untaped section directly across from the valve. I makes removal much easier.

Drillium Dude 12-06-22 09:08 PM


Originally Posted by CV-6 (Post 22731704)

I hope you left a small untaped section directly across from the valve...

Nope, not this time. But I did order a pair of blue-anodized valve caps, and they'll be joined by a set of blue-anodized chainring bolts, because this bike needed just a smidgen more bling :)

DD

panzerwagon 12-06-22 09:19 PM

Nice photos! Did you have trouble with the paper backing strip tearing off as you pulled on it? If so, any tips?

Drillium Dude 12-06-22 10:05 PM


Originally Posted by panzerwagon (Post 22731876)

Nice photos! Did you have trouble with the paper backing strip tearing off as you pulled on it? If so, any tips?

Thanks!

The Jantex tape has a plastic backing film, but it is also somewhat flimsy. Once, while removing when I had the tires up to 100psi or more, it tore. Had to wrestle the tire off in the area of the tear (which wasn't easy, even though I'd only taped it on minutes before) to retrieve the torn end, then slowly pulled, with greatly reduced tire pressure, the remainder out. Was a bit of a challenge getting the tire perfectly straight in that section, but I got close enough.

Now, I only put in about 30psi, to get the tire into shape, and to aid in the seating process. I pull one tab of backing film a couple feet, then do the same with the other, alternating until one meets the other. By the time you remove the film, you will have aligned your tires as best as possible, so when it's all out, pump the tire up to the desired pressure, let sit 24 hours.

That's always worked for me. I'll know around noon tomorrow if I got it right again.

DD

merziac 12-07-22 01:20 AM


Originally Posted by Drillium Dude (Post 22730869)
This is good news - in particular, the praises sung regarding the ribbed portion of the tread. Hand on heart, I was never a fan of the look, particularly the straight-up Corsas with grooves across the entire width. But this one, with the herringbone tread edges, is a nice mixture of the two. The channels have me wondering if they'll be magnets for little pieces to get stuck in, so at the conclusion of each ride I'll religiously look closely at this feature. Hearing your experience with the tread has me looking forward to the ride, and I'm going to run without sealant until the same happens to me, then give it a go since you've proved that to be an option. Plus, I have a free spare to pop on in any case :)

But, really, the main takeaway in handling/mounting them was that they are very well-made, and although they don't seem to weigh all that much, they feel substantial. Does that make sense?

DD

And therein lies the rub, light AND substantial, quality and at the same time up to the task, the magical traits that ruled the markets for decades.

Yes, quality, robustness, etc can always be felt to some degree, especially when you have been around as long as we have.

So many things now days come out of a trusted box or package only to find they have mucked up the mix, your heart sinks and you instantly know another reliable, long trusted and revered product will never be the same. :troll:

BFisher 12-07-22 07:30 AM


Originally Posted by Drillium Dude (Post 22731868)
Nope, not this time. But I did order a pair of blue-anodized valve caps, and they'll be joined by a set of blue-anodized chainring bolts, because this bike needed just a smidgen more bling :)

DD

Nice! That frame color, with the jockey wheels, and the bar end plugs, and the rims...I dig it, Dude!

squirtdad 12-07-22 04:35 PM


Originally Posted by Drillium Dude (Post 22731910)
Thanks!

The Jantex tape has a plastic backing film, but it is also somewhat flimsy. Once, while removing when I had the tires up to 100psi or more, it tore. Had to wrestle the tire off in the area of the tear (which wasn't easy, even though I'd only taped it on minutes before) to retrieve the torn end, then slowly pulled, with greatly reduced tire pressure, the remainder out. Was a bit of a challenge getting the tire perfectly straight in that section, but I got close enough.

Now, I only put in about 30psi, to get the tire into shape, and to aid in the seating process. I pull one tab of backing film a couple feet, then do the same with the other, alternating until one meets the other. By the time you remove the film, you will have aligned your tires as best as possible, so when it's all out, pump the tire up to the desired pressure, let sit 24 hours.

That's always worked for me. I'll know around noon tomorrow if I got it right again.

DD

what is your experience with pull a flat off with tape. First tubulars I did were the inexpensive tufo and use tufo tape..... when I went to pull the tire off a lot of it came off with the tape. so I have being gluing since (vitorria glue)

and for others i know a lot that ther are many that like the effroto (sic) tape... same question

thx

Drillium Dude 12-07-22 04:52 PM


Originally Posted by squirtdad (Post 22732625)

What is your experience with pulling a flat off with tape?
thx

My experience pulling flats off is limited to the two Gommitalia tires I removed a couple weeks ago, after the rear blew out - and I decided to find some modern, new stuff. Both tires came off easily enough once I deflated them most of the way; in my case, the rim tape remained on the rim, so I just had to peel it off once the tires were removed.

DD

obuckler 12-07-22 05:58 PM

In my experience whatever glue protocol you follow as to how many coats and drying time, the key to not having a sloppy mess is to make sure the glue on the tire has cured for good while (think 30-60 mins) before you install on a rim with just applied fresh glue.

i generally use two coats of glue on the rim and one on the tire. When I used to use more, excess glue tended to squirm out and discolor the gum walls.

CV-6 12-07-22 11:38 PM


Originally Posted by squirtdad (Post 22732625)
what is your experience with pull a flat off with tape. First tubulars I did were the inexpensive tufo and use tufo tape..... when I went to pull the tire off a lot of it came off with the tape. so I have being gluing since (vitorria glue)

and for others i know a lot that ther are many that like the effroto (sic) tape... same question

thx


I use Miyata rim tape. My first experience left the tape on the rim. And it was difficult to remove the tire. Second left some on rim, some on tire. Mounted spare and rode home at a slightly lower pace. I now carry a piece of plastic with new tape wrapped on it and a knife to cut it. I leave a segment of rim directly opposite the valve hole untaped. Makes removal a bit easier.

mosinglespeeder 12-19-22 07:45 AM

good day fella's: love the thread on tubulars!! I for one have been loving the recent revival for me of my love of tubulars as everyone is jumping on the tubeless train and forsaking their tubulars and selling them like they are junk, which we all know they are quality tyres. Nonetheless, they are all over and very reasonable prices given the quality, and the argument that tubies are so messy..doesn't wash when your on the roadside fixing a tubeless mess of a flat.

Nonetheless gentleman, my question is i use a 1 inch paint brush when regluing tyres and hate throwing the brush away after use, do any of your reuse your brushes and if so what do you do to preserve them?? soaking in mineral spirits or what?? I am not sure what to do but would love to hear advice

thanks!!

DiabloScott 12-19-22 09:56 AM


Originally Posted by mosinglespeeder (Post 22743292)
good day fella's: love the thread on tubulars!! I for one have been loving the recent revival for me of my love of tubulars as everyone is jumping on the tubeless train and forsaking their tubulars and selling them like they are junk, which we all know they are quality tyres. Nonetheless, they are all over and very reasonable prices given the quality, and the argument that tubies are so messy..doesn't wash when your on the roadside fixing a tubeless mess of a flat.

Nonetheless gentleman, my question is i use a 1 inch paint brush when regluing tyres and hate throwing the brush away after use, do any of your reuse your brushes and if so what do you do to preserve them?? soaking in mineral spirits or what?? I am not sure what to do but would love to hear advice

thanks!!

I like using these acid brushes - they're too cheap to bother trying to re-use... $10 for probably a lifetime supply.
The mineral spirits to preserve them probably costs more than they're worth, even if it worked.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c2943d252e.jpg
Before brushes I used the "baggie on finger" method... didn't try to preserve the baggies either.
I also have a syringe thing that works great for filling in gaps.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6bc9006425.jpg

79pmooney 12-19-22 11:03 AM

I've been using toilet paper cardboard tubes that distort nicely to the rim radius. (Or a little more radius so the glue squeezes toward the edges where I really want it. Clean, no cleanup and reusable. Now, that acid brush approach looks attractive. Better control of amounts and thicknesses.

DiabloScott, can that syringe be used later for additional tires? And if so, how do you store it and keep it working? Any neat tricks?

DiabloScott 12-19-22 11:38 AM


Originally Posted by 79pmooney (Post 22743480)

DiabloScott, can that syringe be used later for additional tires? And if so, how do you store it and keep it working? Any neat tricks?

Yeah, but they're cheap and disposable too; both for touching up new glue jobs, and refreshing old glue jobs - not hard to use at all.

It came with a bunch of different "needles" - they sell these things to crafters who glue rhinestones onto shirts and stuff.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3d0d2626fb.jpg

mosinglespeeder 12-19-22 12:54 PM


Originally Posted by DiabloScott (Post 22743402)
I like using these acid brushes - they're too cheap to bother trying to re-use... $10 for probably a lifetime supply.
The mineral spirits to preserve them probably costs more than they're worth, even if it worked.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c2943d252e.jpg
Before brushes I used the "baggie on finger" method... didn't try to preserve the baggies either.
I also have a syringe thing that works great for filling in gaps.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6bc9006425.jpg

where did you find the acid brushes?? Hobby Lobby?? Great idea!

Dean51 12-19-22 01:59 PM

I purchase acid brushes at Harbor Freight.

Dean

Classtime 12-19-22 10:23 PM

I use acetone to lean those cheap flux brushes well enough to reuse.

obuckler 12-19-22 10:40 PM

As someone said earlier, using your index finger in a baggie works best—more specifically: in a finger sock cut from a latex glove’s fingers (each glove provides multiple uses) works super simple with no muss at all.

Gluing can be mess free, unless you spread glue too thick or all over.

Robvolz 12-20-22 04:05 PM

I came across a trove of these tires.
 
They had them in a $15 close out bin. But, are they any good?
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6baf92f5a.jpeg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...29b5bfdc5.jpeg

smontanaro 12-20-22 04:11 PM

^^^^ Kinda skinny, but should work well as spares, if nothing else. Any hint of a copyright date on the packaging to estimate age?

SJX426 12-21-22 12:14 PM

^^^^^^^^ What is the TPI?

santa fe 2926 12-25-22 04:17 PM

A couple of questions on tubulars. Got a nice set of tubulars wheels from eBay.Fr, and purchased some of the Kendra Veloflex tubs, 28’s. Riding the other day, 94 lbs in rear tire, and 4 miles from home, ka pow, and the rear tire blew out. Had Effetto sealant, too large a puncture, though. Bad luck, too much pressure, or what. Could I use the Vittoria universal sealant, supposed to do 7mm holes, and fix it?

DiabloScott 12-25-22 04:53 PM


Originally Posted by santa fe 2926 (Post 22748869)
4 miles from home, ka pow, and the rear tire blew out. Had Effetto sealant, too large a puncture, though. Bad luck, too much pressure, or what. Could I use the Vittoria universal sealant, supposed to do 7mm holes, and fix it?

KaPow means the tube bubbled out of the slit before it popped - not a simple puncture where the tread and tube get cut at the same time.
Certainly not caused by too much pressure. Possibly some torn threads in the casing - or brittle threads if it's an old tire.
So you've probably got a pretty good gash in the rubber, and a pretty big rupture in the tube.
Probability of fixing this with sealant I'd put at about 1%.


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