Bike Forums

Bike Forums (https://www.bikeforums.net/forum.php)
-   Classic & Vintage (https://www.bikeforums.net/forumdisplay.php?f=181)
-   -   Totally Tubular (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=154679)

cranky old road 08-18-19 06:31 PM


Originally Posted by 63rickert (Post 21081278)
Had something similar about a year ago with a Schwalbe S-One. When I stopped for the flat there was no adhesive at all between carcass of tire and base tape. Tire had hunched up a little in front of valve and that area of tire had many small cuts. On an otherwise totally uncut tire. There was no thump thunp before the flat. Or I didn't feel it because it was a 30mm tire. Mondiale is a basic tire, mine was top of the line and two failures sound about the same.

My tire was well worn and punctured near valve so I just let it go. You could glue the carcass of tire direct to rim. All you lose is the ability to re-stitch and patch the next flat. For a while I was manic about checking that my tires were glued and glued. It could happen. We both lived to tell tale.

I've wondered if there is an incompatibility between certain tire and rim adhesive brands. I've had the base tape on certain tires pucker badly and come loose from the tire edges in the past. I suspected that the solvent in the rim glue dissolved the base tape's adhesive?

JohnDThompson 08-18-19 08:46 PM


Originally Posted by cranky old road (Post 21081354)
I've wondered if there is an incompatibility between certain tire and rim adhesive brands. I've had the base tape on certain tires pucker badly and come loose from the tire edges in the past. I suspected that the solvent in the rim glue dissolved the base tape's adhesive?

That occurred to me as well. I used Continental adhesive for aluminum rims, in my case.

crank_addict 08-22-19 09:01 PM

Vittoriayoyo. Out of the wrapper I had to re-bond parts of the outer layer. That done and now using, I also noted the comical information on the sidewall. This IS ONE tubular.

Poochee just might get his wish as a chew toy.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...99c6ff1884.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0a11440605.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...abbeaa5d0a.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...079a96939e.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6d3a1c4aa0.jpg

jimmuller 08-23-19 04:48 AM


Originally Posted by crank_addict (Post 21088272)
Vittoriayoyo. Out of the wrapper I had to re-bond parts of the outer layer. That done and now using, I also noted the comical information on the sidewall. This IS ONE tubular.

You referring to the "clincher" pressures? I've seen that before, and similar notices "when used on a <whatever> rim". It looks like they use one mold for the tread rubber for both tire types. I guess it saves tooling costs.

masi61 08-23-19 06:17 AM


Originally Posted by jcb3 (Post 21076777)
I have had a hop appear as a result of a poor glue job (by me).

I've heard barge cement is the ticket for gluing the basetape back on

What is “barge cement”?

jcb3 08-23-19 06:23 AM


Originally Posted by masi61 (Post 21088564)
What is “barge cement”?

Brand name contact cement

hazetguy 08-23-19 06:24 AM


Originally Posted by masi61 (Post 21088564)
What is “barge cement”?

https://www.bargeadhesive.com/products.html

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015...4073252378.jpg

masi61 08-23-19 06:43 AM


Originally Posted by jcb3 (Post 21088570)
Brand name contact cement

HaHa - thank you!

My old Vittoria “Pro-L” slick tubulars could have benefitted from some of this. I retired those tires merely because the base tape had perished.

This prompts a logical follow follow up question: is it possible to purchase replacement base tapes anywhere?

If you could just rip the old one off and contact cement a crisp, clean new one on - that would give new life to some of our questionable used tubulars that are laying around.

crank_addict 08-23-19 09:57 AM

Replacement base tape-
Velox tubular base tape is available. I've also used the commonly available cotton rim tape for clinchers.

seedsbelize 08-23-19 11:06 AM


Originally Posted by jcb3 (Post 21080450)
Tufo's can't be repaired in a traditional sense, because as you say, the tube and tire is a "unibody"

That said, the concept is that the "unibody" makes them more durable and "designed" to work with sealant to seal small leaks.

In both types of tire, a large slice largely makes the tire toast.

For smaller punctures, sealant can be added after or before, as a preventative measure.

Sealant in a traditional tubular has varied results, and the sealant will be squirting from the tube into the casing before it seals.

I had some luck a month or so ago on one of my Vittoria Pave with sealant, held enough to get home, but was not a permanent fix - once I pumped it back up to 80 it held until half way through the next ride, then flatted again.

With the Tufo, the sealant makes more of a permanent fix (except for large cuts).

So this begs the question; if there had been no sealant in there, could it have been patched the old way?

seedsbelize 08-23-19 11:12 AM

Step 1:
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c712d37dde.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...15c18f671a.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c524117afa.jpg

seedsbelize 08-23-19 05:25 PM


Originally Posted by jimmuller (Post 21060318)
Something to do when it's too hot to ride?

If you do try sewups, make sure they have removable valve coreser so you can squirt some Stan's Tire Seal in them. Also check out TireAlert.com. Or consider that patching sewups is something else to do when it's too hot to ride.

Yes, too hot to ride, after 10 AM. I don't ride evenings anymore, since my riding buddy moved to Spain. Six or seven more weeks til it cools down some, and by Christmastime I can be out all day. It seems the liquid sealant is the way the hobby is going. Does anybody(you, for example) still do physical patches? I find myself referring back to this thread frequently; it's a good body of work to have available. I'm trying to decide whether to buy tires that ship to Mexico (Amazon) or buy nicer ones cheaper and wait for my wife's return from the US after Thanksgiving.
Rambling enough for you?

jcb3 08-23-19 05:51 PM


Originally Posted by seedsbelize (Post 21089010)
So this begs the question; if there had been no sealant in there, could it have been patched the old way?

no separate tube on the tufo so can't patch old way.

Can use a traditional car tire-type plug patch like they use for patching larger holes on tubeless tires (see photo)

I see no issue patching old-school way, it is just time consuming.

Also depends on what type of flats you get. If you have thorns around, sometimes it is hard to get the thorn all the way out and then you get another flat.

If you don't get alot of flats on clinchers, I would expect similar performance on the tubulars.

Nice rims BTW - they are begging for Tubasti!

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4118e0f35a.png

jimmuller 08-23-19 07:20 PM


Originally Posted by seedsbelize (Post 21089580)
It seems the liquid sealant is the way the hobby is going. Does anybody(you, for example) still do physical patches?

I do physical patches for flats in clincher tubes. Eventually I replace the tube but only after it has proven itself to be untrustworthy or has leaks at the patches, or patches at the patches. If I'm on the road, especially commuting, finding a small leak in a tube can be tough so I'll swap in a different tube and patch the leaky one when I get to work or home. I've done some physical patches of sew-ups but I'm not especially good at it and I don't have much free time to do it anyway. Stan's Tire Seal works well enough for small leaks and is especially good because it works fast. On a commute it lets me keep going without spending 10 minutes installing a spare tire (or 20 minutes swapping/patching a clincher tube). When I've collected at least two sew-ups that didn't seal well with Stan's or that have sealed but won't hold much pressure without blowing out again, I'll send them to Tire Alert. My time is worth more than it costs to pay Tire Alert to fix them for me, and he does a FAR better job! I've got one Vittoria that I'm thinking of just pitching because the tread shows so many small cuts that it is probably vulnerable to more.

seedsbelize 08-23-19 08:13 PM


Originally Posted by jimmuller (Post 21089744)
I do physical patches for flats in clincher tubes. Eventually I replace the tube but only after it has proven itself to be untrustworthy or has leaks at the patches, or patches at the patches. If I'm on the road, especially commuting, finding a small leak in a tube can be tough so I'll swap in a different tube and patch the leaky one when I get to work or home. I've done some physical patches of sew-ups but I'm not especially good at it and I don't have much free time to do it anyway. Stan's Tire Seal works well enough for small leaks and is especially good because it works fast. On a commute it lets me keep going without spending 10 minutes installing a spare tire (or 20 minutes swapping/patching a clincher tube). When I've collected at least two sew-ups that didn't seal well with Stan's or that have sealed but won't hold much pressure without blowing out again, I'll send them to Tire Alert. My time is worth more than it costs to pay Tire Alert to fix them for me, and he does a FAR better job! I've got one Vittoria that I'm thinking of just pitching because the tread shows so many small cuts that it is probably vulnerable to more.

Thanks. This tubular stuff is all brand new.

Classtime 08-30-19 10:07 PM

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...46e8a856e8.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b617a2b43a.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5bec8e004f.jpg
I haven't had to patch one in a while so I'd thought I'd share. One step that was always difficult for me was glueing the base tape back on securely and smoothly. I've settled on this latex adhesive from the local hardware store and painters tape to keep the base tape on while the latex dries. This was my first time sewing the casing back together around the stem. It seems ok.

gaucho777 08-30-19 10:23 PM

@Classtime, That looks good, I have a few extra pieces of hardwood flooring strips with grooves/channels on the bottom. They are a good fit for the base tape side of the tubulars. After repairing a tubular, I press the tire between the hardwood flooring strip and a flat strip of wood on the rubber side in a vice overnight. One could easily drill a hole through the flooring strip to accommodate for the valve.

kcblair 09-02-19 11:47 AM

Finally, trying the tubulars again. Back in 2017, just before my LBS retired, I got a pair of Conti Giro's. Had my old wheels trued, cleaned and mounted the tubs, with Tufo tape. After hanging on the rack, for the winter, I put them on my Concorde, only to discover, the rear had developed a flat spot(over tensioned in one area). So, I hung them back up. Now with 7 bikes and spare wheel sets, it was time to buy an truing stand, rather than paying another LBS $15 a pop to tru my wheels, After 1.5 hrs. playing with that rear wheel, I got the flat spot out. Re-taped the rim, mounted the tub, and added some Stans sealant for good luck. Found a good spare tub, and like the olden days, strapped it under my saddle and away I went. Sixteen, sweet miles and one 40mph down hill run, it was totally , pure fun. Although, 22mm tubs, aired to 120lbs. was a little bone jarring, after todays rain, I'll work on lowering the pressure a little. All my bikes have been converted to 25/28mm tires and found the lower pressures, nice.

And yes, the Conti's do not have a removable valve core. Installed the Stan's at 10 o'clock, inflated the tubs, bounced them around a bit, rechecked the valves for any sticking. Checked again today, nope, no sticking valves and aired up just fine.

Now, if I can find a good air pressure, I'll ride the tubs, the remainder of the season. Was inspired by this thread. KB.

Wildwood 11-19-19 11:03 AM

Some good prices at MerlinCycles.com

https://www.merlincycles.com/road-bi...e_type=tubular

the Vittoria line seems discounted the most.

obuckler 11-28-19 11:11 AM

I have patched patched using the open up traditional method twice on one with good results. Found it fun in same manner as building wheels.

A friend who I bought my Bruce Gordon from found this in his garage and gave it to me. Kind of a blast from the past. Did not have a good place to share, so this thread seemed a good place.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1fffaa913.jpeg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7306a67f1.jpeg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8ac6342ec.jpeg

63rickert 11-28-19 11:23 AM


Originally Posted by obuckler (Post 21226494)
I have patched patched using the open up traditional method twice on one with good results. Found it fun in same manner as building wheels.

A friend who I bought my Bruce Gordon from found this in his garage and gave it to me. Kind of a blast from the past. Did not have a good place to share, so this thread seemed a good place.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1fffaa913.jpeg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7306a67f1.jpeg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8ac6342ec.jpeg

You got a Dunlop kit with everything still in it!!! Those fabric boots are the best ever. I am still using Dunlop Cycle Repair Canvas acquired 46 years ago, probably 50 to 60 years old. Wonderful stuff, comes in a little roll. Rubberized backing still grabs rubber cement, not dried out at all. But it is not as good or as heavy-duty as the canvas squares in your kit.

Miele Man 11-28-19 06:33 PM

I have a number of tubular wheelsets with Shimano Uniglide freehubs. A couple of them are Dura Ace 6 or 7-speed ones. I also have a set that's Campagnolo Triomphe with a freewheel. Plus I have one orphan rear wheel that's a MICHE 8-speed cassette. I don't recall whether it's a MICHE hub or a Campagnolo one.

I recently mounted Hutchinson tubular tires on my Triomphe hub tubulars. I'm still trying to get a bit of a high spot out of the rear wheel.
What I'd really like to do is get a couple of pairs of rims that i could simply swap with the tubular rims on two of those wheelsets. I mean by taping the clincher rim to to the existing tubular rim and then transferring the spokes to the new rims.

Btw, one day due to absolute necessity I discovered that you CAN use a tubular tire on a clincher rim in an emergency. Just pump the tubular tire up until it's hard. I rode it to a bike shop the day after I did that and the guys there were astounded.

Cheers

smontanaro 11-28-19 06:42 PM


Originally Posted by Miele Man (Post 21226756)
What I'd really like to do is get a couple of pairs of rims that i could simply swap with the tubular rims on two of those wheelsets. I mean by taping the clincher rim to to the existing tubular rim and then transferring the spokes to the new rims.

Hmm... Maybe get accurate spoke length and hub dimensions on the front wheel then back into the necessary ERD? If you can do that I think it will tell you what rims will swap.

Miele Man 11-28-19 06:53 PM


Originally Posted by smontanaro (Post 21226765)
Hmm... Maybe get accurate spoke length and hub dimensions on the front wheel then back into the necessary ERD? If you can do that I think it will tell you what rims will swap.

Thanks. I'm seriously thinking about taking one spoke off of a wheel and doing precisely that. I discovered Sutherland's Handbook For Bicycle Mechanics in PDF online and might find some clincher rims recommendations there. there's a shop about 35 kilometers from me that has a lot of vintage stuff some of it NOS.

Cheers

63rickert 11-28-19 08:36 PM


Originally Posted by Miele Man (Post 21226756)
I have a number of tubular wheelsets with Shimano Uniglide freehubs. A couple of them are Dura Ace 6 or 7-speed ones. I also have a set that's Campagnolo Triomphe with a freewheel. Plus I have one orphan rear wheel that's a MICHE 8-speed cassette. I don't recall whether it's a MICHE hub or a Campagnolo one.

I recently mounted Hutchinson tubular tires on my Triomphe hub tubulars. I'm still trying to get a bit of a high spot out of the rear wheel.
What I'd really like to do is get a couple of pairs of rims that i could simply swap with the tubular rims on two of those wheelsets. I mean by taping the clincher rim to to the existing tubular rim and then transferring the spokes to the new rims.

Btw, one day due to absolute necessity I discovered that you CAN use a tubular tire on a clincher rim in an emergency. Just pump the tubular tire up until it's hard. I rode it to a bike shop the day after I did that and the guys there were astounded.

Cheers

Flat rims are pretty much all interchangeable. Flat means flat. Vintage clincher rims used to be just as flat as tubular rims. Spend some time looking up ERD of the rims you're thinking of. Then calculate spoke length and see how little difference 2mm of ERD makes. Finally check how the existing spokes thread into existing rims. Newer clincher rims are taller than vintage tubulars, meaning they take shorter spokes. But if the spoke is 2mm below the top of nipple it will make no difference.

Be careful with the tubular on a clincher rim. Use high pressure to keep it on. Don't expect it to last long. The tubular will squirm a lot and the sidewalls wear against edge of rim. Base tape is all inside well of rim and load is sidewall of tire to lip of rim.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:46 AM.


Copyright © 2022 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.