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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

1989Pre 03-14-24 10:59 AM


Originally Posted by tcs (Post 23182067)
Home-built? How about a factory English 3-speed recumbent from the golden age?

Former professional cyclist Freddie Grubb built bikes in the 30s~60s, including the Grubb Kingston recumbent beginning in 1936. This ad specifies SA 3-speed gearing:

I am a big fan of F.H. Grubb, the corporation, the rider and the individual, but I had not heard-of nor seen the Kingston. Although Fred, himself, was an engineer, and his company was known for their inventiveness, there was another significant engineer on the premises in the early years named Bill Rann. He did much of the design on the Grubb trailers, and was probably involved in much of what else was going on until his departure for Holdsworth in 1933. it appears that Fred, alone, conceived/designed the Kingston. Thank you so much for posting this advert from 1936 (the same year Yellow Streak appeared). Regarding the rider in the photo.., is he on (in?) one of these Grubbs? I find the drive-train to be intriguing. I had not seen anything like it.

Cyclespanner 03-14-24 12:45 PM

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...cf00d94f96.jpg
Mr Grubb himself

EDIT:
I've recently discovered the gentleman sitting on the Grubb Kingston is Brian Cottrell. He was helping Alex Moulton assess different cycle configurations before he developed his own machines.

52telecaster 03-14-24 01:37 PM


Originally Posted by Cyclespanner (Post 23184294)

Too cool. I had a friend with back trouble who mostly rode recumbents. He said climbing was aided by the backrest. I bet Freddy had no problem on it!

52telecaster 03-14-24 06:23 PM

Not English but I am rocking an aw hub. On a camping trip tonight on the Rock Island trail.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0aecf257b9.jpg
Groceries
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f9a0994a06.jpg
Campground
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...bb22f2fd44.jpg
Dinner
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2c32d8b961.jpg
Tent
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...cd876fec0d.jpg
Drive side shot from a while back.

Murray Missile 03-14-24 06:54 PM

Picked up a pair of these for my LTD 3 after a couple failed attempts at buying 26 X 1-3/8" Sun rims. They came yesterday, not quite like the picture. They look to have a polished finish in the picture but are a matte finish, very utilitarian but at least the braking surfaces are double wall. The spoke holes aren't real sweet, they're domed at the holes and many of the holes are off center in the dome so I have concerns about the nipples seating correctly.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...87ab723e19.jpg

52telecaster 03-14-24 08:45 PM


Originally Posted by Murray Missile (Post 23184607)
Picked up a pair of these for my LTD 3 after a couple failed attempts at buying 26 X 1-3/8" Sun rims. They came yesterday, not quite like the picture. They look to have a polished finish in the picture but are a matte finish, very utilitarian but at least the braking surfaces are double wall. The spoke holes aren't real sweet, they're domed at the holes and many of the holes are off center in the dome so I have concerns about the nipples seating correctly.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...87ab723e19.jpg

Let us know how they build.

browngw 03-14-24 09:42 PM


Originally Posted by 1989Pre (Post 23184138)
Your words have the ring of truth. I am fixing up two 3-speeds to sell right now, and with all new tires, tubes and saddles, and hand-grips for one, buying vintage bells would not be prudent. I did happen to have an inexpensive, vintage French ratchet bell for the ladies 3-speed. In other news, it looks like your bike was carved out of a solid piece of malachite.;)

I have had this lovely old circa 1956 Royal Nord President for a number of years and only recently was told about malachite. When I was hand touching up the paint on it, I used four different shades of green. It has a Brampton 3speed drive train.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2a857d32c9.jpg
Classy headbadge.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b8155e52e6.jpg
Brampton hub.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c35750e97a.jpg
Shifter is a little larger than SA.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...884d33f24f.jpg
Exquisite pin-striping

Small cog 03-14-24 10:17 PM


Originally Posted by Murray Missile (Post 23184607)
Picked up a pair of these for my LTD 3 after a couple failed attempts at buying 26 X 1-3/8" Sun rims. They came yesterday, not quite like the picture. They look to have a polished finish in the picture but are a matte finish, very utilitarian but at least the braking surfaces are double wall. The spoke holes aren't real sweet, they're domed at the holes and many of the holes are off center in the dome so I have concerns about the nipples seating correctly.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...87ab723e19.jpg

I think those are the same rims I have on my Lenton restomod, they built up ok and certainly help lose some weight if that is your goal, it was mine.

Murray Missile 03-15-24 04:08 AM


Originally Posted by Small cog (Post 23184757)
I think those are the same rims I have on my Lenton restomod, they built up ok and certainly help lose some weight if that is your goal, it was mine.

Thanks for the feedback. Primary goal is to replace the badly pitted chrome rims for aesthetics and improved braking. Weight savings is a definite bonus but I'd gain more by shedding my own excess LOL.

adventurepdx 03-15-24 01:23 PM


Originally Posted by bikamper (Post 23182996)
Must not forget the Bay City hill on the Wisconsin side.

That's definitely the most significant and highest hill on the main Pepin route, but I've found it to be not that bad, as it's a gradual grade. And 35 there is shaded and has wide shoulders. But some of the auxiliary climbs on the Tour are definite butt-kickers. I did the Maiden Rock detour one year, and that was enough. Nice view from top, though:
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3f40acf380.jpg

Salubrious 03-15-24 02:05 PM

This year the Lake Pepin 3-speed Tour is on the weekend of the 18th.

bikamper 03-15-24 03:49 PM


Originally Posted by adventurepdx (Post 23185267)
That's definitely the most significant and highest hill on the main Pepin route, but I've found it to be not that bad, as it's a gradual grade. And 35 there is shaded and has wide shoulders. But some of the auxiliary climbs on the Tour are definite butt-kickers. I did the Maiden Rock detour one year, and that was enough. Nice view from top, though:
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3f40acf380.jpg

When you're a Flatlander from Illannoy...

noglider 03-17-24 11:21 AM

[MENTION=345195]Murray Missile[/MENTION], what went wrong with the CR18 rim? I put at least one of those on a 3-speed, and it went perfectly.

Murray Missile 03-17-24 11:44 AM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 23186907)
[MENTION=345195]Murray Missile[/MENTION], what went wrong with the CR18 rim? I put at least one of those on a 3-speed, and it went perfectly.

I couldn't find any and the two times I did they cancelled my order becaue they sold out before they could process my order. The LTD isn't any show piece so as long as they'll lace up OK they should do the job.

arex 03-17-24 12:36 PM

Tried eBay? 365Cycles has "more than 10."

Cyclespanner 03-17-24 03:14 PM

Michael Grutzner?https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...20a632b6ca.png

Murray Missile 03-17-24 07:20 PM


Originally Posted by arex (Post 23186981)
Tried eBay? 365Cycles has "more than 10."

I was searching for Suns on Ebay when I found these and there weren't any Sun rims listed or I would have bought the Suns.

1989Pre 03-18-24 04:08 AM


Originally Posted by browngw (Post 23184736)
I have had this lovely old circa 1956 Royal Nord President for a number of years and only recently was told about malachite. When I was hand touching up the paint on it, I used four different shades of green. It has a Brampton 3speed drive train.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2a857d32c9.jpg
Classy headbadge. Brampton hub. Shifter is a little larger than SA. Exquisite pin-striping

That is a beautiful bike, and probably unusual outside of Belgium. Companies who focused on steel components like Brampton and Phillips are the unsung heroes of that era.

PhilFo 03-18-24 05:49 AM

I've found recently that CR18s are sometimes thin on the ground depending upon drilling. 36 hole are the most prevalent recently, but how many of us have bikes with 36/36 or 36/40 holes front/rear? Most of the British 3 speeds are 32/40. Might be best to slip the service managers of various LBSs a fiver or a 6-pack just for a weekly heads up on CR18 availability. Worst case scenario, you find a 32 hole and build up the wheel that has the most brake power.
With my recent ROH build (track bike) I searched for weeks to find an appropriate looking pair of rims in 700c with 32 front, 40 rear drillings. The 40 hole rims came from WGB here on BF.

SirMike1983 03-18-24 06:49 AM

With hard-to-get rims, I usually will buy a pair when I see them at a reasonable price, and then stash them away for a later build. I'll do it with vintage steel or newer aluminum. I usually do wheel building in the winter when there's not much riding or yard work to be done.

tcs 03-18-24 10:53 AM

I'm seeing CR18s in 32 and 36 in stock at a couple of the big 'net parts houses in the last week or so, with 40s "expected soon, may be back-ordered". Thank you Hayes Bicycle/SUNringlé and any of you who emailed them asking for the 590 rims to return to the supply chain after the big boom/bust pandemic thing of the last few years.


how many of us have bikes with 36/36


Well, okay, "For the love of English 3 speeds" thread, sure, but...Schwinn owners. :)

Cyclespanner 03-19-24 10:48 AM

Took delivery of this '1949-5' Dynohub today.
It isn't stamped Sturmey Archer, but the black outer plate has a small 'RALEIGH' halfway down, on the left.
Question to the Hub Boffs here....what is it?

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...fa6668e090.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2dbc7b1cf8.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...599e10fd31.jpg

PhilFo 03-19-24 11:13 AM

That's a Sturmey Archer AG-3, but with Raleigh branding.

SirMike1983 03-19-24 12:51 PM

AG 3 speed it is - nice hub in good condition. The black dynamo covers are often cracked. Yours looks pretty good. Should make a nice hub for a project.

Cyclespanner 03-19-24 06:28 PM

Thanks guys.

For £9 I thought it was worth a punt.
As of now, I haven't been inside it.
For its age the chrome is in excellent condition.
Gears slip into place with a satisfying click.
Turning on the spindle, the distinctive ticking tick-tick-tick sounds right.
The magnets feel very strong when it's rotated, though will have to check for output.
Oil filler cap is missing and the screw on sprocket has had its day,
The selector chain, axle threads, washers and nuts look quite fresh, but obviously could be recent fittings.

EDIT
Thanks for the feedback on this hub.
Investigation with a powerful glass reveals the brass oil port to be engraved 'GARLAND PAT No 576408'.
A gentle probe would seem to reveal no mechanical seal.
In the meantime I got into contact with the vendor, who tells me the hub was fitted to a Rudge ladies model which was used in a TV series 'Call the midwife', based in 1950's London.
The vendor was involved supplying period cycles for the 'midwives' on screen use.
Not all the actresses were competent cyclists, some falling regularly!
It was decided to 'simplify' the machines in an attempt to ease their use; one being conversions to single speed.
So if anyone acquires a 'film star' ladies Rudge for their collection....I have the original 3 speed hub!


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