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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

thumpism 03-11-18 05:08 PM

Yeah, I'll probably never do much with my 22" Tourist or the 19" ladies' Sports. I'll keep my 23" Sportses (the men's and the ladies') and the Swiss Condor with the 700C alloy wheels.

BigChief 03-11-18 09:27 PM

I've been slacking on the herd thinning lately. Selling finished bikes is a pest and I've been putting it off too long. It's on my list of things to do :0

BigChief 03-12-18 02:03 PM

Wow, if this is right, it would be the Grandaddy of all English IGH club bikes. I don't have the knowledge to comment much about it except I would be surprised if the finish of any bike could survive in that condition for 80 years. But, who knows? It certainly is well done in any case.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pre-war-Ral...4AAOSwNWxZ-gnt

nlerner 03-12-18 03:46 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20218788)
Wow, if this is right, it would be the Grandaddy of all English IGH club bikes. I don't have the knowledge to comment much about it except I would be surprised if the finish of any bike could survive in that condition for 80 years. But, who knows? It certainly is well done in any case.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pre-war-Ral...4AAOSwNWxZ-gnt

Iím fairly sure that seller has offered that bike previously at similar ambitious pricing and general lack of knowledge (e.g., the FM is a 4-speed hub!). I agree itís likely 1930s but wonder how much is original. Odd that there are no RRA decals. Could be a Golden Arrow, I suppose, but itís been repainted, Iíd guess.

BigChief 03-12-18 04:01 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 20219004)
Iím fairly sure that seller has offered that bike previously at similar ambitious pricing and general lack of knowledge (e.g., the FM is a 4-speed hub!). I agree itís likely 1930s but wonder how much is original. Odd that there are no RRA decals. Could be a Golden Arrow, I suppose, but itís been repainted, Iíd guess.

There does seem to be a lack of knowledge. He mentions leather cable housings. I'm not sure what to call these woven fabric type coverings, but you see it all the time used as wire insulation in old electronics, but it certainly isn't leather. If you look closely, you can see the RRA logo on the seat tube. I'm going to guess the whole bike is a restoration, but it's still fun to see. Just my opinion, but I don't care for the lights.

clubman 03-12-18 05:08 PM

The big Miller light looks correct but radially laced wheels in the 30's? Never seen that. It's a nice $700 resto ;)

nlerner 03-12-18 05:18 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 20219174)
The big Miller light looks correct but radially laced wheels in the 30's? Never seen that. It's a nice $700 resto ;)

Interestingly enough, the 1938 Raleigh catalog does show the RRA as having a radially laced front wheel:

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4775/...f9faba23_b.jpg1938RRA by neal_lerner, on Flickr

capnjonny 03-12-18 05:18 PM

3 Attachment(s)
here are a few snaps of the latest bike I have taken home to give some love.
It is a Univega Tri Star, probably made in taiwan, with a Shimano 3 speed, Dia comp brakes, and steel 1 1/4 x 27"rims. There was another Tri Star sitting next to it in grey blue.

I stripped it down and touched up the paint , then clear coated the fenders and chain guard.

I have cleaned the steel wheels and will use the rear but most likely will replace the front with an aluminum rim. I also swapped in a Schwinn handle bar . it is the same basic shape but slightly wider and has perfect chrome. I can't decide whether or not to polish the rack and re install it. the brakes have already been polished and really make the bike look nice. A new set of gum walls and this girl will be ready for the prom,

I know this bike isn't anything special but it looked so nice sitting there in the pile I had to give a make over.

clubman 03-12-18 05:24 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 20219195)
Interestingly enough, the 1938 Raleigh catalog does show the RRA as having a radially laced front wheel:

1938RRA by neal_lerner, on Flickr

Dag nab it!

BigChief 03-12-18 06:01 PM

I know, it's hard to keep track of details for pre-war Raleighs. You hardly ever see one. I certainly have never put a spanner to one. Out of curiosity, I'd like to learn the approximate date Raleigh redesigned their brake calipers. The older ones I see, like this one, have calipers with quite a bit of trailing offset on the pads. They shortened the offset, Im sure by 1951, but I could add to my detail timeline if I had a more precise date.

BigChief 03-13-18 05:33 AM

This well written article explains a lot about RRAs and even answers my brake caliper question. Well, one source anyway. Seems like a good one. It claims that the RRA received the "new pattern brakes" in 1939. The 1939 RRA in the picture does have the later style calipers that we're all familiar with

Pre War Raleigh Record Ace RRA - Three Speed Hub

Salubrious 03-13-18 10:49 AM

Radial laced wheels
 
Radial laced wheels have been around since the advent of two wheels. They persisted well into the 1930s on many production machines. They are still seen today; but early on the industry sorted out that they are not as strong so they are not used for rear wheels as the driving torque on the spokes can break spokes and rear hubs. IOW interlaced spoke patterns make for stronger wheels. But a radial pattern is always a nice thing to see on a front wheel so I encourage anyone building a front wheel to give it a shot.

clubman 03-13-18 04:11 PM


Originally Posted by capnjonny (Post 20219196)
here are a few snaps of the latest bike I have taken home to give some love.
It is a Univega Tri Star, probably made in taiwan, with a Shimano 3 speed, Dia comp brakes, and steel 1 1/4 x 27"rims. There was another Tri Star sitting next to it in grey blue.

I stripped it down and touched up the paint , then clear coated the fenders and chain guard.

I have cleaned the steel wheels and will use the rear but most likely will replace the front with an aluminum rim. I also swapped in a Schwinn handle bar . it is the same basic shape but slightly wider and has perfect chrome. I can't decide whether or not to polish the rack and re install it. the brakes have already been polished and really make the bike look nice. A new set of gum walls and this girl will be ready for the prom,

I know this bike isn't anything special but it looked so nice sitting there in the pile I had to give a make over.

Hey Capn...Univegas are nice bikes and yours is no exception. Unique in my part of the world.

BigChief 03-13-18 05:07 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 20220617)
Radial laced wheels have been around since the advent of two wheels. They persisted well into the 1930s on many production machines. They are still seen today; but early on the industry sorted out that they are not as strong so they are not used for rear wheels as the driving torque on the spokes can break spokes and rear hubs. IOW interlaced spoke patterns make for stronger wheels. But a radial pattern is always a nice thing to see on a front wheel so I encourage anyone building a front wheel to give it a shot.

What is the advantage of radial laced front wheels? A friend of mine rides a more recent Cannondale set up this way and I was wondering about it. I didn't know until now that it dated so far back on sporting bikes.

clubman 03-13-18 06:14 PM

Lots of opinions on radial spoke wheels. Lighter, maybe stronger, more aero yet harder on some hub flanges, more dangerous when spokes break, maybe harsher ride etc etc. It's like geting into an oil thread with car engines.

SirMike1983 03-13-18 06:58 PM

The coating on those cloth housing appears to be a type of fabrikoid. This was a method perfected in the very early 20th century where cloth or layers of cloth would be coated with a water-resistant lacquer, usually nitrocellulose type, to create a slick, water-resistant cloth. You often see it on old luggage and on some of the old-style horse hair mattress bike saddles. It seems a slightly different coating was used on the housings than on the saddles, but appears to have been the same process of coating cloth with a lacquer type coating.

BigChief 03-13-18 07:47 PM

I can confirm that Raleigh used these cloth covered cable housings as late as 1951 (by hub date) . I found an interesting article about how to reproduce these cable housings using modern cable and tubular shoelaces. scroll down to near the bottom

Cable Parts ę Myrons Mopeds

Super.bee 03-14-18 09:47 AM

no-in-between retrofit?
 
Has anyone in this venerable group tried retrofitting an old aw with new parts to eliminate the no-in-between gear issue? I don't mean filing the clutch teeth, but rather using a new-design clutch, which I presume means a new-design driver as well. Are these the only parts that need to be replaced? Or, has anyone sourced aw or srf3 rebuild kits and gone that route? I'm thinking of building up an English 3 speed for my daughter, and would rather use the new tech, but have lots of old aw's and prefer their appearance. Plus a guts swap means I could even use a wheelset I already have built with an old aw + cr-18s. Anyone?

BigChief 03-14-18 11:02 AM

I have noticed that some later AW hubs have quality issues like burrs, sharp edges, under tensioned clutch spring and misalignment of parts that can cause dodgy shifting. Sometimes a bent or twisted indicator chain will cause problems, but for the most part, a smooth running AW will shift flawlessly once the cable is in proper adjustment. The trigger shifters are indexed perfectly to avoid the neutral spot between 2nd and 3rd. I'm surprised that you would feel the need to modify one unless you're dealing with one of the rare lemons. Have you tried swapping the guts from one of your other AWs?

Salubrious 03-14-18 01:52 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20221350)
What is the advantage of radial laced front wheels? A friend of mine rides a more recent Cannondale set up this way and I was wondering about it. I didn't know until now that it dated so far back on sporting bikes.

The most important advantage is they look nice :)

restlessswind 03-14-18 04:53 PM


Originally Posted by capnjonny (Post 20219196)
here are a few snaps of the latest bike I have taken home to give some love.
It is a Univega Tri Star, probably made in taiwan, with a Shimano 3 speed, Dia comp brakes, and steel 1 1/4 x 27"rims. There was another Tri Star sitting next to it in grey blue.

I stripped it down and touched up the paint , then clear coated the fenders and chain guard.

I have cleaned the steel wheels and will use the rear but most likely will replace the front with an aluminum rim. I also swapped in a Schwinn handle bar . it is the same basic shape but slightly wider and has perfect chrome. I can't decide whether or not to polish the rack and re install it. the brakes have already been polished and really make the bike look nice. A new set of gum walls and this girl will be ready for the prom,

I know this bike isn't anything special but it looked so nice sitting there in the pile I had to give a make over.

Very cool! I like it. And you can use metric tools! :D

clubman 03-14-18 05:16 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20222649)
a smooth running AW will shift flawlessly once the cable is in proper adjustment.

Truth. Once adjusted, an AW will go years without ever seeing a false neutral as long as fulcrum stop and pulley clamps are snugged up properly. Mens frames should have gear cable routed along top tube to pulley, not along downtube.

Super.bee 03-14-18 06:38 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 20223518)
Truth. Once adjusted, an AW will go years without ever seeing a false neutral as long as fulcrum stop and pulley clamps are snugged up properly. Mens frames should have gear cable routed along top tube to pulley, not along downtube.

True, true. And I have not had the problem occur (FWing forward and no brakes on a misadjusted TCWIII early in my wrenching years notwithstanding). Thanks for reaffirming my usual trust in AW's. But, for my daughter's bike, I'd like to go the extra mile. Or perhaps I just like to make work for myself...

Next challenge: I have a dumpster find chrome Sports, 1966. After years semi-restored I'm determined to finish it. Worst damage is the front chrome fender - dented. I have not seen a source for these with real stays - those on Hercules etc all are wire. Suggestions? And, anyone have a preferred decal method for chrome?

arty dave 03-14-18 08:52 PM

For sale in Australia - Vintage American made '71 Schwinn 3 speed in great condition for approx US$2300. Lots of NOS parts. This has been for sale for quite some time now; what are your opinions? I'm totally not interested in buying, just wondering what it's actually worth.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Vintage-...oAAOSwR6RaCWbD

BigChief 03-15-18 04:33 AM


Originally Posted by Super.bee (Post 20223656)
True, true. And I have not had the problem occur (FWing forward and no brakes on a misadjusted TCWIII early in my wrenching years notwithstanding). Thanks for reaffirming my usual trust in AW's. But, for my daughter's bike, I'd like to go the extra mile. Or perhaps I just like to make work for myself...

Next challenge: I have a dumpster find chrome Sports, 1966. After years semi-restored I'm determined to finish it. Worst damage is the front chrome fender - dented. I have not seen a source for these with real stays - those on Hercules etc all are wire. Suggestions? And, anyone have a preferred decal method for chrome?

Wow, that's a rare one. I've only seen them in pictures. Nice find. But, you're right. Every chrome Raleigh style fender I've seen had wire stays. Maybe wires on the front wouldn't look so bad.


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