700 x 19 or 20 Tires
 

Wider tires seem to be the train everyone is jumping on. Is there anyone out there, like me, who used to use 19c or 20c clinchers and never had a problem?
I have searched, but is anyone making a 19 or 20c skinwall-type tire anymore? I think I had Trek and Panaracers "back in the day". It seems "the man" is forcing everyone into blackwall wide tires!

You skinny-tire diehards are coming out of the woodwork lately. :)

The Duro company still makes a 700x20C, not sure about availability: https://www.duro.com.tw/en/product/b...8ac0f67bb13a8/

Are you up for tubulars? There are a lot more options for ~20mm tires in that format. Maybe you could hit up Catnap for the wheels. ;)

I know, right? I couldn't have written this better myself! I used to ride 700 x 20 Continentals back in the day. I was always curious to try the 19s, but never did. I'm riding 700 x 23 Veloflex Master skinwalls, and was happy to find those (they measure slightly narrower than 23 mm on my bike). I decided to buy a second pair while I could based on the market moving away from narrow, high pressure tires. Folks here seem more interested in "comfort" than the road feel of a nice high-pressure narrow clincher. Finding anything narrower in skinwall/gumwall has been difficult, although I do recall prior posts where some have been recommended. Good luck, and keep the faith!

Thanks! I originally had tubulars but switched to clinchers after the first few flats. I'm really not interested in reliving that pain!

Thanks for the support! I'll look into those Veloflex. I never understood why the switch to wider tires.. cost of manufacture? Can get away with lower thread count? Modern carbon rims need coddling? Who knows! As I said, my (now unfashionably) narrow clinchers worked perfectly!

It doesn't seem to be any of those things (although I'm not speaking from a manufacturer's perspective--maybe it is to save costs?). From what I gather, it's something about "comfort," like people want their race bikes to ride like Lincoln touring cars or something. Never understood this myself. I get this when it comes to gravel bikes or touring bikes, etc. But a thoroughbred road racer?? I won't even get in to the studies that folks use to justify wide, low-pressure tires.

Yep. Same here.

yawn


Vittoria makes several versions of their tire lineup in 23c and tanwall. 23c isn't much wider than 20.
https://www.biketiresdirect.com/prod...kaAkWUEALw_wcB

It's not about having a 'problem' - it's about trying different things and looking for incremental improvements. Sure, you can absolutely ride 19mm tires on any surface you can ride 25mm tires, but the prevailing wisdom is partly that 19mm tires are going to be slower because they have to deflect more to support the rider, or need be run at higher pressure, or both.

The other advantage of wider tires is suitability of the tires on rougher road surfaces - unless you are riding on a track or live in a wealthy area where the road gets repaved every time a pothole appears, you will be more comfortable on wider tires with a bit less pressure. You also get a second speed advantage on a rough road because if your tire provides more 'suspension' (absorb road irregularities better) then you don't have as much 'suspension losses' (bike and rider being pushed vertically by bumps which costs forward momentum).

The only advantage of super narrow tires is a bit of an aerodynamic benefit - especially if the tire width closely matches the rim width, and especially especially at higher speeds when riding alone. If riding in a group or at moderate speeds, wider tires are likely going to be faster, all other things being equal.

The man also sells tan-wall tires, and even mentions the down-sides of wide tires.

I prefer 28mm or wider, although I have to limit the Bianchi to about 26mm (28mm callout size Continentals).

Are you really trying to tell me my 23 mm Veloflexes at 140 psi “deflect” more than a 38 mm tire at 80 psi? If so, the “prevailing wisdom” doesn’t seem too wise to me.

i've noticed that nice 23 road tires are often heavily discounted because no one wants them
same as gravel tires in cx widths like 30-33

I’ve noticed the exact opposite. You need to pay a premium because they are so rare. Which is why I picked up a second set while I could.

just for example on wiggle conti ultrasports are NZ$30 in 23 and $40 in 25/28
Check out Soma too, they have/had some big discounts on their 23s because it's an abhorent size to their target market.

Michelin Elan

i even have a 27" version!?!

also likes the Avocet tire too, long gone now.

I have bikes that are running different tire widths and I ride each of them according to my mood or type of ride I am planning. My Raleigh Competition GS has 700 x 23 tires and I always love riding that bike , I just make sure I have at least 100lbs in the tires before taking off on a ride. I have much wider tires on my Mondia , it came with 27” wheels so the 1 1/4’ wide tires I put on it measure 1.390” when inflated to 80lbs. If I plan on any sandy or gravely roads for long distances , I take that bike. The rest are either 25 or 28 wide 700’s or 27 x 1 . I am older now so it doesn’t matter to me too much, when I was younger I wouldn’t ride anything wider than 23’s. I always thought it was faster.

Heya - would the group mind an attempt at some horse trading in the subject of this thread?

I was (and at heart still am) a skinnies-only kind of guy until age & infirmity moved me into today's "the bigger the rubber the better" mentality so I find myself left with several of what I think are really nice 23mm clinchers that I'd love to turn into some equally good 28 &/or 33/35c tires.

If such an inquiry is not permissible here I apologize and mods/admins please feel free to remove. If it is ok - thanks & let me know - I'm in the US...

You know what I love about threads like this?

I went and did some sleuthing just for grins, and discovered...






...Excel Sports has Vittoria Corsa G 2.0 two-packs on sale for $99.99. New tan-wall 23s coming my way! :thumb:

No, your narrow tires at 140psi will not deflect more, but 140psi is not commonly used anywhere outside of the track. I've tried that and it rattled my water bottle bolts and my teeth loose.
However, 35mm tire at 80 psi will likely be as fast or faster than any 140psi tire on any non-smooth surface, all other things being equal (ie similar tire construction). Super hard tires roll fast over smooth surfaces, but are a liability on rough 'real world' surfaces due to 'suspension losses'. Yes, they 'feel' fast, but the perception doesn't generally match reality.

Tell that to the printing on my tire sidewalls.

Pretty much the effect I'm looking for. It's called "responsiveness."

It seems that 19's or 20's might give a "if you don't look too close" way to emulate the appearance of tubulars, without actually converting; perhaps for an infrequently ridden bike.

Maybe someone with more grounding in math than me could calculate the # of air molecules in each at those pressures... it would be interesting to know. It seems that would have to have an impact on deflection.

Yep--you got me. I want my bike to look like it has sewups. Can't get one by you!

And I'm sure fooling people into believing their tires were sewups was exactly the reason why companies manufactured them. How clever!

You don't need math for this one. Common sense will do.

One of my to-do projects falls into this category; to be ridden little but not quite wall art, originally sew-ups but do I really want to mess with that? Of course, a modern-looking tread pattern ruins the look.

Not sure one must rely on that. Anyway, every time I read "fat tires are better", I keep thinking about the movie "Sleeper" where Woody Allen's character wakes up in the future and is told "Smoke this cigarette, we've found they are good for you" :eek:

Anyway, I presume someone knows how to calculate the volume of the two toroidal shapes in question -- but it won't be me!

That's the MAXIMUM pressure bro, not the ideal pressure for all riding. Veloflex gives a range and it's not '139-141 psi'

And you may be confusing 'responsiveness' for 'harshness'.

edit:
looking at the Veloflex website right now and there is a 'suggested pressure calculator'. I selected 23mm tire and 95kg rider weight (highest value in drop down list) and the reccomended pressure is 8.1 bar (117 psi). The only tire on their website with higher suggested pressure is stated in bold as being specifically for 'time trial or track racing'. 23mm is also the narrowrst tire they sell as far as I can tell.

But you know better than the manufacturer, I am sure.