Why 50-34 sucks for commuting
 

I tried a 50-34 compact crankset on one of my commuters a few years ago and hated it. If you're a regular participant on these forums, you've probably seen me ranting about the superiority of triples over compact doubles. And yet, I somehow talked myself into buying a compact crankset again. My thinking was that the bike it was intended for would primarily be a weekend road bike and I could probably tolerate the 50-34 on the few occasions I rode it to work. Well, I've ridden it to work twice this week and I'm not tolerating it very well. It's usable, but apparently I can't use it without feeling compelled to rant. So here I am.

I'm a nerd, so I thought I'd plug some numbers into a gear calculator and see if I was missing something. Doing so, it's clear to me why 50-34 sucks so badly for commuting. Here's what the Sheldon Brown gear calculator tells me my speed will be at 90 rpm for my current gear options:

[table="width: 500, class: grid"]
[tr]
[td][/td]
[td]50[/td]
[td]34[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]12[/td]
[td]29.9[/td]
[td]20.3[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]13[/td]
[td]27.6[/td]
[td]18.7[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]14[/td]
[td]25.6[/td]
[td]17.4[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]15[/td]
[td]23.9[/td]
[td]16.2[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]16[/td]
[td]22.4[/td]
[td]15.2[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]17[/td]
[td]21.1[/td]
[td]14.3[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]19[/td]
[td]18.9[/td]
[td]12.8[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]21[/td]
[td]17.1[/td]
[td]11.6[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]23[/td]
[td]15.6[/td]
[td]10.6[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]26[/td]
[td]13.8[/td]
[td]9.4[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]29[/td]
[td]12.4[/td]
[td]8.4[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

I typically cruise around 18 mph on rolling stretches of road, maybe getting up as fast as 25 once in a while. So if I start in the small ring from a stop (about 20 times on my 10-mile commute) I'm very likely to want the big ring sometime before I stop again, but probably not long before I need to stop again. Each step on the 34T ring gives me an absurdly small bump in speed, but let's say I get up to around 15 mph before I decide to jump to the big ring. Now I'm in the 34-16 combination cruising around 15 mph and to find a good next step after changing to the big ring I need to downshift the rear three times because it would have required four downshifts to stay in approximately the same gear. Who thought that would be a good idea?

The thing that really struck me about this today is that the more cogs you have in back, the worse this problem gets. I think I'm starting to understand why everyone suddenly started thinking 1x11 was a good idea.

Anyway, I'm curious to hear from anyone who has a 50-34 on their commuter and is happy with it. What is your typical usage pattern like?

I, like you, love triples. My commuters are all 1x systems or 3x systems. In the triples I'm almost always in the middle chainring. It's perfect. On my compact double road bike I almost never use the small ring unless I'm climbing. I even start out in the big ring.

Unless I'm riding very hilly terrain, I don't like the 50/34 combination. I usually run 50/36 and find it keeps me on the small ring more on uphill sections and on the large ring for flat or downhill sections.

When I stop at lights, I usually shift down a full stroke of the lever (3 cogs) and leave it on whatever ring it's on. If the start is uphill, I might make an effort to drop onto the little ring.

Exactly! I feel like 50-39-30 is essentially a 50-39 double with a bailout ring, while 50-34 is essentially a 50T 1x with a poorly chosen single ring and an inadequate bailout gear.

I don't mind 46-34 for commuting, but I like to pretend that I need a bigger ring for weekend road rides.

The chart I use – 50/34 compact with 11-32, 11-speed freewheel – is as follows:

[TABLE="width: 169"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 225, bgcolor: transparent, colspan: 6"]Z85 TRAINER MPH CHART[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 37, bgcolor: transparent"]rpm[/TD]
[TD="width: 44, bgcolor: transparent"]rpm[/TD]
[TD="width: 45, bgcolor: transparent"]rpm[/TD]
[TD="width: 45, bgcolor: transparent"]rpm[/TD]
[TD="width: 27, bgcolor: transparent"]Gear[/TD]
[TD="width: 27, bgcolor: transparent"]Cog[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 37, bgcolor: transparent"]75[/TD]
[TD="width: 44, bgcolor: transparent"]80[/TD]
[TD="width: 45, bgcolor: transparent"]85[/TD]
[TD="width: 45, bgcolor: transparent"]90[/TD]
[TD="width: 27, bgcolor: transparent"]#[/TD]
[TD="width: 27, bgcolor: transparent"]#[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #C5D3FF"]26.8[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #C5D3FF"]28.5[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #C5D3FF"]30.3[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #C5D3FF"]32.1[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]15[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #C5D3FF"]11[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #C5D3FF"]24.5[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #C5D3FF"]26.2[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #C5D3FF"]27.8[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #C5D3FF"]29.4[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]14[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #C5D3FF"]10[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #C5D3FF"]22.7[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #C5D3FF"]24.3[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #C5D3FF"]25.8[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #C5D3FF"]27.3[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]13[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #C5D3FF"]9[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #C5D3FF"]21.2[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #C5D3FF"]22.6[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #C5D3FF"]24.0[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #C5D3FF"]25.4[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]12[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #C5D3FF"]8[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #B7FFFF"]18.5[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #B7FFFF"]19.7[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #B7FFFF"]21.0[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #B7FFFF"]22.2[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]11[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #B7FFFF"]7[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #B7FFFF"]16.5[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #B7FFFF"]17.6[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #B7FFFF"]18.7[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #B7FFFF"]19.8[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]10[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #B7FFFF"]6[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #B7FFFF"]14.7[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #B7FFFF"]15.7[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #B7FFFF"]16.7[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #B7FFFF"]17.7[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]9[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #B7FFFF"]5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #B7FFFF"]13.4[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #B7FFFF"]14.3[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #B7FFFF"]15.2[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #B7FFFF"]16.1[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]8[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #B7FFFF"]4[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFE4AF"]12.5[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFE4AF"]13.3[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFE4AF"]14.2[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFE4AF"]15.0[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]7[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFE4AF"]7[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFE4AF"]11.2[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFE4AF"]11.9[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFE4AF"]12.6[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFE4AF"]13.4[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]6[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFE4AF"]6[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFE4AF"]10.0[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFE4AF"]10.7[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFE4AF"]11.4[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFE4AF"]12.0[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]5[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFE4AF"]5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFE4AF"]9.1[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFE4AF"]9.8[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFE4AF"]10.4[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFE4AF"]11.0[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]4[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFE4AF"]4[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFF99"]8.0[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFF99"]8.6[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFF99"]9.1[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFF99"]9.6[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]3[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFF99"]3[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFF99"]7.1[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFF99"]7.6[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFF99"]8.1[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFF99"]8.6[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]2[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFF99"]2[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFF99"]6.2[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFF99"]6.7[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFF99"]7.1[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFF99"]7.5[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"]1[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFF99"]1[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

The numbering is 11 for the small cog and the chart shows 15 gears with a single double-shift from 34x7 to 50x4 and– e.g., 18.5 mph at 75rpm in 50x7.

largely functional as a single with a Bail Out low .. Rode a tour with a friend using a 50-28 even more the case .

Had a 52-36 for the Mt Tam hill climb , in the 80's..

Man, you guys are nerds!;) I have a triple 9 and a compact 10 for my commuters. I am not really fussy about which I like more in terms of the gearing. My commute is not hilly so don't tend to shift a lot. I'm most comfortable pedaling at 95 rpm, but I'm fine anywhere between 80-100.

My other bikes are 53/39, but since I'm not that strong a rider anyway I tend to be be mostly in the 39 ring, occasionally slipping into the 53. Doesn't bother me at all.

"If you want even the nerds to consider you a nerd, try getting enthusiastic about bicycle gearing." -Ken Kifer

50x7 (above) refers to the 7th cog which is 16T:

[TABLE="width: 155"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 205, bgcolor: transparent, colspan: 5"]Shimano 50/34T Chainrings[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, colspan: 4"]11-speed Freewheel[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 50, bgcolor: transparent"]Rings/Cogs[/TD]
[TD="width: 39, bgcolor: transparent"]34[/TD]
[TD="width: 42, bgcolor: transparent"]50[/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 50, bgcolor: white"]11[/TD]
[TD="width: 39, bgcolor: white"]82[/TD]
[TD="width: 42, bgcolor: yellow"]120[/TD]
[TD="width: 37, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]11[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 50, bgcolor: white"]12[/TD]
[TD="width: 39, bgcolor: white"]75[/TD]
[TD="width: 42, bgcolor: yellow"]110[/TD]
[TD="width: 37, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]10[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 50, bgcolor: white"]13[/TD]
[TD="width: 39, bgcolor: white"]69[/TD]
[TD="width: 42, bgcolor: yellow"]102[/TD]
[TD="width: 37, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]9[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 50, bgcolor: white"]14[/TD]
[TD="width: 39, bgcolor: white"]64[/TD]
[TD="width: 42, bgcolor: yellow"]95[/TD]
[TD="width: 37, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]8[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 50, bgcolor: white"]16[/TD]
[TD="width: 39, bgcolor: yellow"]56[/TD]
[TD="width: 42, bgcolor: yellow"]83[/TD]
[TD="width: 37, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]7[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 50, bgcolor: white"]18[/TD]
[TD="width: 39, bgcolor: yellow"]50[/TD]
[TD="width: 42, bgcolor: yellow"]74[/TD]
[TD="width: 37, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]6[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 50, bgcolor: white"]20[/TD]
[TD="width: 39, bgcolor: yellow"]45[/TD]
[TD="width: 42, bgcolor: yellow"]66[/TD]
[TD="width: 37, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 50, bgcolor: white"]22[/TD]
[TD="width: 39, bgcolor: yellow"]41[/TD]
[TD="width: 42, bgcolor: yellow"]60[/TD]
[TD="width: 37, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]4[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 50, bgcolor: white"]25[/TD]
[TD="width: 39, bgcolor: yellow"]36[/TD]
[TD="width: 42, bgcolor: white"]53[/TD]
[TD="width: 37, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]3[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 50, bgcolor: white"]28[/TD]
[TD="width: 39, bgcolor: yellow"]32[/TD]
[TD="width: 42, bgcolor: white"]47[/TD]
[TD="width: 37, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]2[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 50, bgcolor: white"]32[/TD]
[TD="width: 39, bgcolor: yellow"]28[/TD]
[TD="width: 42, bgcolor: white"]41[/TD]
[TD="width: 37, bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
[TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]1
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

I just converted a triple to 1x11 with a 34T chainring and 11-40 on the rear for commuting and trail riding on my Troll. Really don't ever need to pedal faster than 24 mph, because above that, I'm coasting. The simplicity of shifting only the rear is great. Takes all the planning out of shifting without having to worry about the front. And the XT RD can go up 4 cogs per shift, so shifting to an easier gear is quick. Still, I don't have any issues with a compact double on the front, especially when combined with an 11-40 on the rear.

http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/...D6DBC9C989.jpg

http://i1082.photobucket.com/albums/...0AC3C28099.jpg

I found I can spool a 32/44 on a 7 speed better than I can my 50/39 nine speed. Was either pushing too hard on the 50 or couldn't find a leg speed that was comfy on the 39.

One reason I bought my Masi Giramondo was the gearing 44/34/22 with a ten speed.

But I roll it like it's a 5. Typically I'll start in the 34/ 16, get moving then just jump to the 44. It's an awesome hi/low setup that allows me to just boogie. I've still got 14,12,11 available.

I have a 50-34 crankset but it's not on a bike at the moment.

One of my commuter bikes is a rigid mtb converted to dropbar and 9-speed (11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19) corncob mated to a 48-38-28 crankset. I LOVE IT! I ride it a lot on rolling hills and love the slight increases between gears as a shift in back doesn't lead to spinning out in too low a gear.

Cheers

I agree about your basic premise. The big shift of a compact double system is awkward, and it makes the cruising gears awkwardly cross-chained. On a triple you are usually in the middle of the middle ring. But...

Compared to a MTB 1x11 system you have more ratios (about 15 not including overlap) and they are closer spaced (+-9% not +-15%). This is what roadies usually say they want.

And, I'm kind of sick of fussing with triples.

Seems like you could stay in the 50 ring all the time. Why even go to the 34 ring, except for a significant hill?

With 10 and 11 speed cassettes and their small steps between cogs, what the world needs is a FD that will shift between 55 and 26 rings, a chain flexible enough for cross-chaining, with electronic shifting that allows purely sequential shifting. Then you could run 55/26 x 11-23 10 or 11 speed. Huge gear range, no overlap, adequately small steps for commuting, and simple "up down" shifting.

Worked for me.

I've always thought that a 50, 40, 30 triple is just about perfect! an 11-32 or 12-34 9 spd in the rear would keep me very happy!

That's kind of interesting. By having an 11-32 instead of the 12-29 I'm using the shift pattern looks a bit better. You're double shifting from 16T to 20T whereas two shifts from 16T takes me to 19T.

Looking at the gaps in my gear range a little closer I see that I'd probably get optimal shifting by going to the big ring from 17T gear, where a double shift would take me to the 21T cog so 34-17 (53.5 gi) goes to 50-21 (63.7 gi) for a 19% jump. If I wait until I'm using the 16T (34-16=56.9 gi) the 1 up+2 down shift takes me to 50-19 (70.4 gi), a nearly 24% jump.

As a table with gear inches....

[TABLE="class: grid"]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]50[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]34[/TD]
[TD]1+2 change[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]12[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]111.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]75.8[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]26.12%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]13[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]102.9[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]70[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]27.43%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]14[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]95.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]65[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]28.62%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]15[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]89.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]60.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]29.65%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]16[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]83.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]56.9[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]23.73%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]17[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]78.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]53.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]19.07%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]19[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]70.4[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]47.9[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]21.50%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]21[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]63.7[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]43.3[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]18.94%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]23[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]58.2[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]39.6[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]16.41%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]26[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]51.5[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]35[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]29[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]46.1[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]31.4[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


OK, yes, it is clear to me how much I'm overthinking this, but that's just putting numbers to what feels wrong on the road.

I have a 50/34 chain ring on my commuter and almost only use the 50 unless pulling the trailer or extra heavy panniers.

Maybe because from a stop, the big ring is too big, even if you cross chain?

I think that 1 x 10 or 1 x 11 makes a lot of sense for a commuter, with something like a 42, or even 39 tooth chainring. This combination puts the rider right in the middle of the cassette most of the time. Some ask about giving up top end speed, but realistically, how many people can really use a big gear of 121 gear inches on a commuter?

Well, that's what I did this morning, but I don't like pushing off from a stop in a 50 inch gear. If I was going to do that I may as well ride my singlespeed and walk up the big hill.

Like I said above, 50-34 is essentially a 1x with a poorly chosen single ring and an inadequate bailout gear.

Robert Capon once wrote a cooking book in which he goes off on a rant about knives, comparing the commonly sold knives to tin fiddles. His idea maps almost perfectly to my feelings about the compact double.

Compact double = tin fiddle

I'm sure the C&V crowd can see a few more applications for this analogy. ;)

How about a double-shift from 14T in the low ring to 19T in the big ring...?

My bad weather ride is 1x7 42x11-28. which actually has a higher low end than the other 2 with 50/34 11/27. One of them I am always on the 50t except for a big hill (really big hill), the other I warm up for a couple miles 34/11-13. The former one I might be able to pull off a 52/36 but I have been happy to have that 34/27 option...

I've got a 15-20% grade hill at the end of my commute, so barring the kind of ridiculously wide range cassette that is now becoming available, 1x10/11 means ending the day with a short uphill walk, but I think you're essentially spot on. In fact, when I "upgraded" to 11-speed Shimano stuff (for the hydraulic brakes) on my primary commuter recently and lost the option of running a triple I just removed the big ring and am now using a 39-30 double. I do most of the commute in the 39T ring and then drop down to the 30 for that one hill.

So you mean a double-double shift, using two clicks of the shifter twice? It's functionally possibly, but I don't like it.

:50:

I'm with you for the most part, @Andy_K. A 50/34 crankset feels like a triple with the middle ring (the most useful, IMO) removed. It seems like you need a wide-range cassette to avoid constantly cross-chaining or shifting the front.

That said, I'm experimenting with a 48/34 crank on my long-distance bike. The cassette is a 13-24, but if the setup ends up with me shifting the front too much, I'll be willing to try a 13-26 cassette before saying "the hell with it." ;)